[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.


Baren Digest              Monday, 1 December 1997      Volume 01 : Number 004

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From: Bill Mixon <bmixon@nine.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:30:23 -0500
Subject: [Baren 20] Re: Non-toxic alternatives ...

Graham wrote:
<
I have used Clorox to bleach some Hosho paper and it eats it to put it mildly.
Oh, the reason is being of Scottish descent, I make use of reject prints to
do life and or portrait drawings on.

* methods for making washi
I'm not familiar with this term, could you please send a brief outline.
>

Yep, one should use care with Clorox around paper.  Although the stuff
is very effective to clean mildew off tubs and the walls of houses, it
has too many other side effects (on paper) to make it ideal as a
fungicide.

My wife is of Scottish descent (so I'm familiar with that phenomenon;^).

My apologies to all for using jargon without defining!  To make a brief
off-topic detour, "washi" is the Japanese term for traditional Japanese
handmade paper.  "Nagashizuki" is their term for the methods
traditionally used to make washi;  it means, roughly, "sloshing method",
which is quite descriptive of the motions made by the mould ["sugeta"]
during sheet forming.  (The pulp is sloshed several times over the
surface of the bamboo screen  ["su"] stretched inside the mould frame
["keta"], depositing laminated layers of interlocked fibers that form
very thin and strong sheets.  This is quite different from traditional
Western hand papermaking methods, which tend to produce thicker but
relatively weaker sheets.)  A gooey substance called "neri", extracted
from the root of the "tororo aoi" (hibiscus manihot) plant, is added to
the pulp to make it more viscous, to help temper the sloshing.  (The
neri becomes less viscous as the pulp gets warmer, hence winter is the
favored season for making washi.)  For those interested in more details
on this fascinating process, Timothy Barrett has written an excellent
book, "Japanese Papermaking" (Weatherhill).  Dr. Barrett has also
produced a related set of videos, available through the University of
Iowa's Center for the Book:

        http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~ctrbook/index.html

I can usually manage some confidence when using Japanese technical
terms.  (I'm on much shakier ground when I attempt French!:^)

Best regards,
Bill

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From: Bill Mixon <bmixon@nine.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:17:44 -0500
Subject: [Baren 21] Paper spoilage

David wrote:
<
My prints usually have about 8~12 colours, and I usually make around 130
copies of each one.  This takes about five days, and when you count in
the couple of days that the paper is moistened before actually starting
printing, it's about a week altogether that the paper is stacked up,
warm and wet.  ...

I read once that back in the old days (Edo times), publishers avoided
scheduling prints that had many colours for the summer, and tried to
have them done in the fall or winter.  ...
>

Hi David,

Another thought.  Rather than using fungicides of questionable safety
and side effects, perhaps you could just schedule your summer printing
sessions as multiple shorter runs (say two or three of 40 to 60 prints
each)?  That way each run might fit within the time limit imposed by
those little mold spores!

I realize this would probably be a pain on several fronts:  extra setup
and cleanup time, and extra difficulties of color-matching between runs.
 But throwing away good paper gone bad is an expensive pain too.  One
has to find a balance point...

Regards,
Bill

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From: David Bull <davebull@asahi-net.email.ne.jp>
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 07:27:53 +0900
Subject: [Baren 22] Re: Paper spoilage

Bill,

Your comment:
> ... multiple shorter runs (say two or three of 40 to 60 prints each)?
>
> I realize this would probably be a pain on several fronts:  extra setup
> and cleanup time, and extra difficulties of color-matching between runs.

Yes, this is a solution, and one that some people are using (Graham for
one, told me a while ago that he splits his runs up into smaller
groups.)

I'm resisting the idea of going this way however, but if I tell you why,
you'll probably laugh ...

Up to about five years ago, I used to do my monthly print in two 'lots',
rather than one.  I split the group of about 130 sheets into halves, did
the first batch, and then after a day's rest or so, ran the second.
This wasn't because of mold, but because I just didn't have the stamina
to do 130 x 12 continuous impressions on thick and heavy 'oban' size
hosho paper.

But one day, after visiting one of the 'real' printers downtown, and
watching him work away at a batch of 'many' hundreds all stacked up in
front of him, I realized that I was babying myself, and so switched to
doing it all 'in one'.  It was tough at first, but I gradually got used
to it.  I now resist going back to the old way - splitting it into
groups - as a sort of matter of pride!  'Look at me, I'm a 'real'
printer!'

As far as colour matching goes, that's not really a problem.  Unlike
many artist/printmakers, who enjoy varying their prints from one to the
next, to see what interesting effects can be created, reproductive
workers like myself train and train to produce a run of prints that are
_identical_.  If you can see a difference from one to another, it means
we've screwed up!  (I'm speaking of the ideal here - please don't assume
that _I've_ got that far yet!)

Dave

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:43:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 23] Re: Mould and Printing.

Hi People

I am always glad when the fall/winter comes as this eliminates (reduces)
the mold problem. I work with a cool studio when printing and have never
had a problem with wet paper for up to 7 or 8 days.  I have never gone
beyond this time as I get my printing done in that time frame.  I by the
way only print about  15 or 20 prints depending on the number of colours.
The more the colours 20 - 25 the fewer the prints. If for one reason or
another I can't print in the time frame of a week then I dry the print then
re wet and finish the print.  I do this in the summer.  I allow 5 days for
damp paper then I dry it.   Even in the summer here are quite cool, 80 is a
real warm day, and usually about 70 to 75 and down to 60 each night.
Paradise for a printer.

When you do get those little spots of mould forming, and it is usually one
or two at first, what do you do with those prints.  Keep them or pitch
them? I have kept them by the way if there is only one or two small spots
that show on the white 2" boarder.

Noboru Sawai, my teacher, suggested I use, and gave me some
chemical...Thymol... I believe is the name.  It retards the mould forming
in paper.  I called him to verify this name but no answer.  I believe he is
still in Japan doing some research and development of a printing paper. At
any rate I will follow up on this and keep you guys posted.

Cheers

Graham

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From: Oilcolors@aol.com
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:10:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Baren 24] Re: Mould and Printing.

Graham

This question might seem elementary, but how do you rewet without disturbing
the existing image? By placing the sheet face up on a wet felt or something?

Dan

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From: David Bull <davebull@asahi-net.email.ne.jp>
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 14:05:46 +0900
Subject: [Baren 25] Re: Mold and Printing.

> This question might seem elementary, but how do you rewet
> without disturbing the existing image? By placing the sheet
> face up on a wet felt or something?

I brush the water on from the back side ...

It's also possible sometimes to flatten out prints that have been
creased.  Dampen then (from the back) as though preparing the paper for
printing, let sit for a day or so, and then dry them off in the usual
way.  This doesn't fix any actual damage to the paper surface, but
certainly smooths out a lot of the creasing.

WARNING!  Don't try this on some ancient masterpiece unless you know
that the pigments on that particular print are 'color-fast'.  I'd sure
hate to have you destroy some old master or something ...

Dave

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:14:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 26] Re: Mould and Printing.

I see Dave got to you re your question.

I have done the rewetting from the front without any problem.  When you
print and the pigment has been pressed firmly into the fibres of the Hosho
paper there is no problem about distrurbing any colour. This practice does
depend on what stage or value of colour you are applying.  If I am into the
darkest of darks near the final stage of the printing I would be very
careful.  Actually I would not do it with a brush but take a gentle pump
spray and as they say in the fire dept. hose it down.
I have also used a damp, that's damp, box to re wet stuff.

gidday

Graham

ps.  Isn't this server great.


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From: Matthew.W.Brown@VALLEY.NET (Matthew W Brown)
Date: 30 Nov 97 17:36:23 EST
Subject: [Baren 27]  Thoughts for Baren

Baren,
        to Daniel: Quinacridone and pthalo (blue and green) are pure pigments
that are lightfast. As pure pigments they are very strong and work like dyes,
so might it be likely they are the basis of what RIT is using to make its dyes?
Another way to get these colors is from Kremer Pigments, NYC (see The Shop
section of my website @ www.ooloopress.com for their address). The quinacridone
(red) goes quite well to water with a little mixing. Pthalo blues tend to need
a wetting agent. There is one they sell called Paris blue which goes to water
easily.

        to Patrick: your remarks about "The Public's" buying habits made me
think of that fascinating question of the difference between THE WHAT and THE
HOW. Maybe the buying public is most interested in THE WHAT, but what is THE
WHAT interested in? Does not THE WHAT ultimately owe its existence to THE HOW?

        to Dave: Keiji told me he uses a food preservative with his printing. I took
the name and will try to find it, it starts with a "B" (here in the States). I
have found the French-made paper takes a lot longer to gain those beautiful
pink and grey spots than Japanese papers I've used. Perhaps their paper-making
processes are more 'sanitized'. I also use distilled water when wetting.
        The trick I rely on the most for this scheduling difficulty is the
freezer. If I get interrupted, etc. the prints go into a plastic bag into the
deep freeze.  Have that bag airtight and your moisture content should be the
same when they come back out (given several hours to come back to room temp).
Works pretty well unless you go so long (like months) that the weather makes
significant changes and your blocks begin to change size. There's even a cabinet 
shop trick for that too, though. Have a wide board in the room where
you keep your blocks and use a metal ruler on it. Note its changes in size
across the grain with the weather. If an edition gets away from you sitting in
that freezer you can wait until that block gets back to where it was when the
prints went in and your registration should be O.K. (I say "yours" but I should
say "mine", your work is so much more precise this trick might not be as handy
as it might sound.)

to Baren: I think the baren makes a wonderful symbol. Both as a word (so close
to"bearing", and "baring", and as a visual, the tool as a round disc! I found
myself thinking about my own baren, however, for mine is not bamboo covered. It
is plastic. It reminds me of a diaphragm case, and I kind of like that association. It is made in Japan.
        I ran into troubles with bamboo barens. The bamboo skin covers wear out
and I couldn't find new bamboo sheathing (let alone figure out how to tie it ).
Then about 3 years ago Daniel Smith began carrying a plastic baren that sells
with shipping for just under $40. The surface disks are replaceable and made up
of little bumps. Used with a little camellia oil I feel they work great, and
may have less friction on the paper than the bamboo, being plastic. As a symbol
for my relationship with the pressure I apply to the back of each print I'm not
sure what to think. Perhaps for me a little bit of modern technology is a
necessary helper in the 'battle against the Giclee print'. (Not that it is a
battle, but it would by nice to see the hand-pressed print get a respectable
piece of the pie!)

Yours,
Matt

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From: Matthew.W.Brown@VALLEY.NET (Matthew W Brown)
Date: 30 Nov 97 18:35:39 EST
Subject: [Baren 28] Printing schedule

Baren,
Dave: I am impressed that you go after that many sheets in a session. It makes
me happy to realize I am not one of "the big boys", for 50 sheets is a big bite
for me (and I sometimes get help for some of the colors).
        There is a trick related to this topic I would like to share with
anyone who is interested. If you get a supply of baby food jars, and use 
distilled water with your pigments, the pigments themselves will keep for a
long time, to be re-used in a later session, even the water content will be
about the same. This way your colors can stay consistent between sessions,
something that is harder to do with oil inks.
        This trick doesn't hold true for sumi ink because of the glue in it,
and is one of the reasons I have been so unsure as to how to bring glue into my
printing method. I literally think of those baby food jars as almost as much a
backbone to the print as the blocks, it can take so much work to get the colors
working together right.

Once Dave you mentioned something about using gum arabic instead of glue. Have
you experienced a difference between the two? When I'm using gum arabic is that
functioning about like the glue or am I missing something?

Graham: when those little spots show up... those prints are long gone! If
they'd been valuable they'd have gone to the freezer.  Prints with
spots...that's unanswered e-mail that's due for the trash!

Matt

P.S. I'm out of this loop for at least a week on a travel. Till then take care!

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From: David Bull <davebull@asahi-net.email.ne.jp>
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 17:18:11 +0900
Subject: [Baren 29] Re:Thoughts for Baren

Matthew wrote about,

> ... a plastic baren that sells with shipping for just under $40. etc.

Matt, is that the same as the one in this picture?
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~xs3d-bull/how-to/images/mainichi_1_5b.jpg

There has been quite a lot of experimentation with barens here in recent
years.

- - One of the most respected printers in town now uses a 'ball-bearing'
baren of his own devising ...
- - That wood shop that supplies the new laminated cherry blocks also
sells circular ultra-thin adhesive-backed teflon sheets for putting over
the bamboo skin, both to help it slide easier, and to reduce wear and
tear ...
- - There are now all manner of 'student model' barens designed for those
who can't tie the skins on real barens, or who, like some of you out
there I'm sure, just don't have access to skins ...

If you're surprised that so much experimentation is taking place in such
a hide-bound and traditional field, where one would expect to find
resistance to change, it's all explainable by one simple fact.  The
number of people practicing the older style of woodblock printmaking
here has by now dropped to minimal levels, so the people supplying the
tools and products have pretty much lost their market.  There used to be
many people making barens ... there are now two, and they are both doing
other things to survive.  A made-to-order 'hon baren' (the real McCoy)
will now cost you just about 55,000 yen.

To me, it's worth every yen, but to many it's just too much money ...

Dave

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End of Baren Digest V1 #4
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