[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest              Sunday, 14 December 1997      Volume 01 : Number 015

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From: David Bull <davebull@asahi-net.email.ne.jp>
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 19:17:27 +0900
Subject: [Baren 78] Re: Ego-less art 

Patrick asked:
> Does anyone on the list know if such contemporary master 
> carvers as, let's say Yamagishi and Maeda, were not permitted 
> to have their seals affixed to the prints they worked on?

If you had asked them this question, they would just have looked at you
as though you were bonkers.  They were 'shokunin'.  Their job was to
carve blocks.

The idea of putting the craftsmen's names on the prints has had a bit of
a 'boom' recently.  The publishers are advertising the prints as
'handmade' etc. etc., and to this end, are including the craftsmen's
names as part of the attempt to give the whole project a special aura.
"Handmade - just like in the old days!" 

But if the reaction of the carvers and printers I speak to these days is
anything to go by, they don't care in the slightest about this.  Send
them the blocks, give them a sample proof if one is available, otherwise
just give them rough instructions as to what type of work is wanted, and
then stand back ...

Whether their 'ego' doesn't actually exist, or whether it's suppressed,
I really can't say.  They honestly just don't seem to care.  I had a
vivid illustration of this a few years ago.  On a visit to one of the
best printers, I had seen on his bench a stack of prints designed by a
Canadian printmaker.  My friend had just finished producing the
edition.  I later attended an exhibition of that printmaker's work, and
was disturbed to see that no mention at all was made of the fact that
they had been printed by somebody else - everybody was being led to
believe that they were all hand made by the artist himself.  When next I
spoke to my printer friend and asked him about this, he replied with
words to the effect ... "Who cares?  I did a good job.  I got paid. 
That's all I want."

When I kept on talking about this, trying to get him to stand up for
himself, he cut me off.  "Forget this stuff.  Why do you keep bringing
this up?"

This is a good reminder for me that although people here keep describing
me as a 'shokunin', I am most definitely not a 'real' shokunin.  And
never will be ...

Dave Bull

P.S.  (As if this wasn't long enough already)  
Speaking of Maeda-san, I have some blocks here that were carved by him
not too long before he died - a set of prints designed by a contemporary
illustrator.  They're pretty badly worn, but I can see from the prints
(of which I also have a set), that it was pretty spectacular work. 
There are four prints in the set, and a couple of them are somewhere
around 70 or 80 impressions (I think).

How did I get them?  The designer, who I have met a couple of times,
called me one day.  The publisher had dumped the old blocks off at his
place, trying to get rid of them, and he had no use for them either.  He
though I might want them to practice on ...  They're sitting here in my
workshop, and maybe one day I might even get that chance to try them
out.  Maybe ...

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From: John Amoss <amoss@mindspring.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:01:23 +0300
Subject: [Baren 79] on matt, dave and 'festus 

to Matt:
i appreciate your response. you asked the question: "why does the ego
want to look back at what is done?" some people (j.krishnamurti again)
would take a behaviourist approach and say the it is an addiction. you
have taken pleasure from your work once and you want to re-create what
was before- a losing proposition. but why look back at all? others say
that the personality of an artist has explains the behaviour. the
greeks' god of craft- hephaestos (vulcan when in rome) gives a profile
of the archetype artist: hephaestos was born with a clubfoot and because
of this was expelled from olympus. hephaestos decides (or is compelled)
to seek beauty=perfection beyond himself through his work. hephaesto's
energy comes from the need to be loved through redeption and work.
unfortunately, the other gods (none of whom worked) would just take what
hefeastos made and practically ignore him until they needed something
more. i think that this explains why artists have a need to fill a void
in themselves through expression- to verify oneself against the "norm".
hephaestos at his best is the father of beauty and industry. happiness
comes with self acceptance. without this, he becomes a monkish
pessimist.

personally, as an illustrator, i never sign my work (some would say
illustration is not art, and maybe it isn't. i'd say it is at least a
craft). anyway, i don't see any great difference in quality between
illustrators that do sign and others that don't. 

to David:
i am not an exhibiting fine artist, but i agree with david that the
artist is in direct competition with the visual supersaturation of
today's world. and i think that it is great that you (dave) have given
the public an additional amount of information to accompany your pieces.
i am afraid that to catch the public's eye you not only have to answer
visual questions for your audience, but ask it for them too. i don't
think that it is "dumbing down", rather than opening a door for them. 

i am always surprised how little most artists want to market themselves.
i think that if you want to make a living, you must support your work if
you want your work to support you (how's that for a cliche). to be
unnoticed is the artist's worst nightmare.

to All: i appreciate the dialogue as i tend to be isolated in my place
of work/business. ol  'festus would be proud.

- -john

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 08:58:25 -0800
Subject: [Baren 80] Artist definition 

To John:
>personally, as an illustrator, i never sign my work (some would say
>illustration is not art, and maybe it isn't.

It is interesting that illustrators don't sign.  I know that some clients
will not allow it. To day you are a commercial, or in todays terms, a
graphic artist.  Tomorrow you may be a Fine Art Artist.
We are both artist.  The latter creates for himself...or should....the
other creates for others.

It just came to me about text used for an image.  Go look at my site
http://www.islandnet.com/~gscholes/ and click the image beside...."Graham's
Statement" without this text people wouldn't have clue about my visual
statement. Well a least 99% of the looky lues.

Graham

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From: David Bull <davebull@asahi-net.email.ne.jp>
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:02:51 +0900
Subject: [Baren 81] What's in a name? 

>From john:
> by the person formally known as john (sounds a little like the singer prince).

Interesting that you say this.  When I was in the process of setting up
this group I was considering the name [Prints] instead of [Baren].  That
way, we could have referred to ourselves as:

'The artists formally known as [Prints]'

But I had to admit that there would be too much confusion with the
'PrintsL' group over in Kansas.

Dave ...

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From: Oilcolors <Oilcolors@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 02:35:20 EST
Subject: [Baren 82] I can't digest! 

--- deleted administration message ---

NOTE: administration messages should be sent to the address:
<owner-baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp>

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From: Oilcolors <Oilcolors@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 02:38:24 EST
Subject: [Baren 83] Pigment 

Dear Matthew:

Thank you for the kind reference to Kremer.  I have purchased thier products
through http://www.sinopia.com/ on-line.  They sell for the same price as
direct but with a buck more for the glass container that Kremer offers
optional at the same cost.

I have used an outfit called Guerra Paint & Pigment at 510 E. 13th Street NYC
10009 [phone: (212)529-0628].  They are less precise about thier pigment
sources than Kremer but they have a large selection of earth pigments at US
$5.00 per pound!  Maybe not as fine as Kremer but a great price.  Some people
use them because they ship pigment dispersions[sic?], that is pigments machine
ground to a fine suspension in water... people who want to use pigments that
are inhilation hazards find that these pigments shipped wet are a nice safe
option.  One caveat though, some titanium white I just bought frome them foams
and scums when I add water... got some super cheap and terribly beautifull
green earth in the same shipment though...

Thanks for your thoughtfull posting.

- --Daniel--

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From: Oilcolors <Oilcolors@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 04:50:01 EST
Subject: [Baren 84] Re: Ego-less art 

All:

>Of course, this is the 'mindless' craftsman David speaking.  _How to
>fill that blank white page_ is no part of my thoughts ...
>For you 'artist' types, the story is different.  Or is it?

At the risk of sounding truly strange, anytime I truly get into the groove
enough to do good work I'm so disassociated I'm essentially thoughtless.  I
have no ego whatsoever (maybe that's why I no longer show) ...I look at my
work and I know its the result of my training and the hours of thought I put
into it away from the easel but still it looks like it was done by someone
else to me if its any good at all.  That is why most painters listen to music
or even watch TV while they work... to occupy or even *trance-out* their
conscious mind.  

Well, I do have the cheek to think my work will look just fine at the Goodwill
Thrift Shop once I'm gone.

I'll bow out of the philosophizing though if its an invitation to abuse.

- -Dan-

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From: Oilcolors <Oilcolors@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 04:50:07 EST
Subject: [Baren 85] Signing 

The only time I ever signed my paintings was when the dealers required it... I
don't feel something should be on the canvas unless its part of the
composition.  The compromise we struck was that I used dry-transfer lettering
to spell my name *kerned* out across the top or bottom of the canvas.  Never
sign my prints either.  Hopefully if you have the damn thing you can remember
who made it!

Just added my name to my website today after nearly 16,00 hits.

X

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From: Oilcolors <Oilcolors@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 04:50:20 EST
Subject: [Baren 86] That dangerous reply button! 

Ooops!

I did it on [Baren] first.  That psychobable message was supposed to go to
David only not to the groooooup!  I guess my reply button malfunctioned.

Still though... FLAMING ALREADY? Gives one pause.

My moto in school was *If you have a message use Western Union*... I don't
even think art is about *personal expression* anymore than its about Ideas
with a capital _I_.  

The New York art world (where I'm from) is more interested in selling your
work as a memento of your artist's statement than as something anyone would
actually look at.  At Stucks I was passed over by a guy who stuck his picture
on a can of beans because I wasn't willing to peddle the psychobabble.  In
grad school I was the only person doing work that could even actualy exist
outside of the gallery much less hanging in the kitchen.

If you think that's meaningless art jargon you should see the catalog essays I
write for a friend of mine who was recently featured on the cover of the *New
Art Examiner* praised for his Iris prints of grade school yearbook pictures
with the eyes digitally replaced by those of various breeds of puppy dogs.
See, he has a dealer since he's willing to spout the nonsense the dealers
require... I don't have the stomach to write about my own work.  But I won't
talk about movies when I leave the theatre either for that matter.

Any how let's let the flames die a peaceful death on this one... way boring.

- --Dan--

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End of Baren Digest V1 #15
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