[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest            Wednesday, 18 February 1998    Volume 02 : Number 072

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From: amoss@mindspring.com (John Amoss)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:05:23 +0300
Subject: [Baren 398] wood engraving 

Hello all-
I wanted to mention that I took a wood engraving workshop this weekend as a
distraction from my woodblock attempts.
I remember folks asking about woods for engraving- specifically boxwood and
I thought I would pass on some "newbie" highlights to folks who would like
to know more about wood engraving:

We used "hard maple" endgrain blanks cut type-high (.918"). My
father-in-law says that woodworkers use either hard or soft maple- he
couldn't help me with the specific tree's name). Other wood mentioned are
lemon (the fruit) wood, castello, maracaibo, hornbeam, pear, holly and the
ideal boxwood. A Mr. Joe Spratt- Box 158 Smithville, Ontario Canada LOR2A0
(905)945-9621 carries a supply of finished blocks. There is also a
synthetic product called Resingrave that is getting good reviews (in
McCain's catalogue).
 Anyway, the blocks were sanded with 220, 320 and 400 grit sandpaper, then
inked to help indicate the incisions.

Question: Do any of you guys darken the surface of your woodblocks to help
you see the carving? I have found that anything like markers are absorbed
too far into the wood... Waterbased inks would leach when printed,
oil-based inks would seal the grain... Thoughts?

Anyway, back to the process: We then proceeded to use burins to etch the
block, although my Japanese tools frequently came in handy. I found the
lack of grain was a pleasure to work with and the small size (3"x4")made
for relatively quick carving. Oil based printing ink was applied rather
thickly with a brayer. A dampened hot press paper was used on a Vandercook
press. Since I don't have a press, I have used a large wooden spoon to
print at home. My baren didn't seem to force the thick ink into the paper
enough.
If you find yourself between prints,  you are welcome to see the small goat
image that I came up with:
<http://www.mindspring.com/~amoss/pages/goat.html>

I think that using endgrain could be very useful for fine detail in
woodblock printing although the small blocks may have to be pieced together
to get a decent size. Plugs as someone mentioned in Baren might also do for
localized detail. I hope to experiment using both endgrain (for detailed
keyblocks) and plank side (for color blocks) carving some day- once my
blisters turn into callouses.

'Till then I've been enjoying the Baren discussions (even the jokes from GS).

- -john

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:53:26 -0800
Subject: [Baren 399] Re: wood engraving 

Hi John,
Thanks for the feedback re engraving.  I sure sounds like fun and I will do
some down the road.

A little while back some one asked about printing press and I had indicated
there was a small company in Comox BC here on the island that supplied a
unit.   I got their newly printed brochure and prices and they rang  from:
Tablemodel  12x24 @ $695.00 Can  ($420.00 US) up to 24x36 for $1195.00 Can
Standmodel  24x36 @ $1295.00 Can up to 36x48 $1895.00 Can
In each case there are 6 sizes available.
Let me know if you need any more input here.

There e-mail address is:  danpat@comox.island.net

Just what you need John to turn those blisters/callouses into baby bottom
type, can't keep you hands off of skin you loved to touch.

>Question: Do any of you guys darken the surface of your woodblocks to help
>you see the carving?

Don't see the need as we usually work to a inked line. Each plate has a
line drawing on it as a guide to the shape for each and any colour you are
carving for.

> My baren didn't seem to force the thick ink into the paper enough.
I think you could ruin a baren as engravings require much more pressure.

Have fun.

Graham

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:58:14 -0800
Subject: [Baren 400] Re: miniogami 

>Does anyone know where to get minogami?
>
>Cheers
>Ray Esposito

Did you get an answer to this question?

Graham

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From: Ray Esposito <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:11:59 -0500
Subject: [Baren 401] Re: wood engraving 

Graham wrote:
>A little while back some one asked about printing press ... etc.

Graham:
That was me.  I got the same flyer in today's mail.  Thanks for your efforts.

Cheers

Ray Esposito	

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From: Ray Esposito <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:55:39 -0500
Subject: [Baren 402] Re: miniogami 

I wrote:
>>Does anyone know where to get minogami?

Graham wrote:
>Did you get an answer to this question.


Graham

No

Cheers
Ray Esposito

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From: David Bull <davebull@asahi-net.email.ne.jp>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:56:09 +0900
Subject: [Baren 403] Re:Wood engraving 

john wrote about boxwood ...
> I think that using endgrain could be very useful for fine detail in
> woodblock printing although the small blocks may have to be pieced together
> to get a decent size. Plugs as someone mentioned in Baren might also do for
> localized detail. I hope to experiment using both endgrain (for detailed
> keyblocks) and plank side (for color blocks) carving some day

We touched on this before - inlaying boxwood for the detail areas - and
there are a couple of points to note.  

When I had that first experience with carving on boxwood - using the
plank side - I was surprised to find that even on the plank this wood is
extremely fine and is capable of showing extremely delicate lines.  I
had always assumed that the old Japanese carvers were using end-grain as
the westerners were ... not so.


I have been told (by both a carver and the block maker) that inlays of
harder woods like boxwood were usually done 'on the plank' - with the
grain direction of the inlay matching the grain direction of the base
wood.  If an end-grain piece of wood was inserted, I think you would get
problems with the expansion/contraction being different ...  Another
reason is that due to the different way that end grain wood and plank
wood absorb water, the printed image would show a different tone in the
inlaid area.

And then I guess the tools would have to be different.  The carvers here
of course had no burins and gravers - only knives and gouges.  What
happens when you try to 'carve' end grain wood, rather than 'grave' it?

Dave

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:29:55 -0800
Subject: [Baren 404] Is it animal, vegetable or mineral 

OK Ray.

I was hoping to BS my way through this one.  I thought first off that
someone would reply and I would get to find out what the Miniogami is. So
then I took the next step and asked you if you got an answer to the
question.
"No" did not enlighten me one little bit.   I am still in the dark.

So now that my hand has been forced .... what the hell is miniogami  ...
will you get a headache if you drink too much?

Regards
Graham

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From: Matthew.W.Brown@VALLEY.NET (Matthew W Brown)
Date: 17 Feb 98 21:14:34 EST
Subject: [Baren 405] Video. 

Baren,
	On 'appropriating' stuff: Like Dave I was struck by what Graham shared
of the 'Zeitgeist' to do with 'copying' up there in Canada. I have mostly
thought of copying as the means by which culture (and most everything else)
develops and advances. It is how we learn language; is it also perhaps how we
learn most everyting else?

	On darkening blocks while carving: sometimes a little pencil lead (used
like a rubbing crayon) can quickly make what you're doing 'all come clear'. It
will wash off easily just like your hanshita would do.

	On safety: last night in a class that I am teaching in my shop a woman
cut her thumb, badly, with a knife. It was a reminder to us  that what we are
doing is real stuff, real wood, real tools. . .Remember to CARVE AWAY FROM
YOURSELF! and spend time getting comfortable and well set up before you begin
carving!

	Dave sent me a video of the documentary made about him recently by
Japanese nationwide NHK TV. It is very well done (well, I can only speak for
the camera work really, as it is all in Japanese). Seeing it enriched both my
idea of what Dave is up to and my appreciation for this craft we are interested
in. I would like to figure out a way to share it with those who might like to
watch it. Perhaps a good way would be to send your mailing address to me
 (private e-mail: Matthew.W.Brown@valley.net) and I'll send it off "on tour"
with destination addresses on an enclosed list in a week or so. 

Matt

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From: Ray Esposito <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 21:21:03 -0500
Subject: [Baren 406] Re: Is it animal, vegetable or mineral <199802172304.IAA55322@ml.asahi-net.or.jp> <199802151530.AAA24990@ml.asahi-net.or.jp> 

Graham wrote:
>OK Ray.
...
>So now that my hand has been forced .... what the hell is miniogami  ...

Graham:
 I am somewhat reluctant to answer for fear I will make a total ass out of
myself and am sure many on Baren will correct me.

Minogami, or mino, is a very thin paper, almost like tracing paper.  It is
what Japanese artists draw their designs on.  The block carver then glues
this thin sheet to the block and uses it as a guide.  I am sure all of you
have done the same thing with other papers.  It's just that mino is what
the "old guys", as Dave likes to say, used.  I wanted to use it because it
is traditional and I want to go that route to the extent possible.  

The only source I have found is from McClain's who sells a Usu-mino.  David
tells me Usu is Japanese for thin.  I just think McClain's prices for paper
ae high and wanted to know if there was another source.

Now that I have butchered the answer, perhaps the pros can help Graham out.

Cheers.
Ray Esposito

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From: David Bull <davebull@asahi-net.email.ne.jp>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:44:12 +0900
Subject: [Baren 407] Re: Minogami <199802151530.AAA24990@ml.asahi-net.or.jp> <199802180132.KAA09936@ml.asahi-net.or.jp> 

Graham wrote:
> So  .... what the hell is minogami  ...

Sorry to ignore you on this Graham - I think everybody was waiting for
everybody else to answer!

'Mino' is the name of a place in Japan famous for papermaking.
'Gami' ('Kami') is the word for paper.

Minogami (as far as printmakers are concerned) is the name for the very
thin tissue-like paper used for making the 'hanshita', the tracing that
will be pasted down on the block.

It's wonderful stuff - so incredibly thin that it's hard to believe
somebody actually made it with the dipping technique ...

I guess Daniel Smith probably has it, and maybe that place in Canada in
Toronto too ...

*****

Matt wrote:
>On safety: last night in a class that I am teaching in my 
>shop a woman cut her thumb, badly, with a knife. It was a reminder 
>to us  that what we are doing is real stuff, real wood, real 
>tools. . .  Remember to CARVE AWAY FROM YOURSELF! and spend time 
>getting comfortable and well set up before you begin carving!

Not to argue with Matt ... but I have to add that the basic most
fundamental technique of using the main carving knife in the tradition
over here, is the stroke made directly towards oneself.  And what's
'worse', is that a finger of the other hand is frequently placed against
the blade to steady it as it moves along a line ...

There are many soft/hard/soft spots in the wood ... beginner carvers
here use lots and lots of bandages ...

Dave

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From: Phil Bivins <pbivins@ac.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 00:28:16 -0500
Subject: [Baren 408] Re: Video. 

Matt, I sure would like to see it. I think you have my home address. If not let me
know. Thanks, 

Phil

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From: Jean Eger <jeaneger@LanMinds.Com>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:47:56 -0800
Subject: [Baren 409] Copying

Thank you Julio for your kind words.  It was a bad week 
for me, with an art exhibition to hold a reception for 
and a programming test coming up at the junior college--
too much to do and not enough time to do it in.  I'd like 
to take some time to read back issues of BAREN before I 
plunge back into the discussion.  Your expertise in 
printmaking is very valuable to me.  Thanks for your work 
on the Encyclopedia.

You might be interested to hear Carmen Lomas Garza's 
comments about copying on the
National Museum of American Art's web site
http://nmaa-ryder.si.edu/webzine/family1.htm
It's better if you view the whole thing, starting at
http://nmaa-ryder.si.edu/webzine/featpage.htm

We are taught in elementary school to admire many cultures,
so of course, when we grow up, we will naturally want to 
claim these cultures as part of our own cultural soup.

Jean Eger

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End of Baren Digest V2 #72
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