[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest                Monday, 1 June 1998        Volume 03 : Number 170

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 10:40:41 -0700
Subject: [Baren 846] Re: welcome 

WELCOME BACK DAVID.

TFN ......... Ta for now......or....... CYA .....see ya

>It seems that most of you have been sleeping for the last couple of
>weeks ... or maybe busy in the workshops - I hope!

Right, got a new piece done.....well almost .....first proving anyway.
Really happy with it.....Well for the first few weeks until I start a new
piece...
but that is the way it is.....always going for better and better.

Also wrote the article about the Giclee Prints....did you see it?

Spend the weekend working with a portable lumber who was here to saw up 25
logs cedar and fir of various diameters 30" to 8" and lengths, 8 ft to 16 ft.
Now I will have lots of boards for my projects. You know furniture and stuff.

>Nice new layout!  Interesting to see someone working with a horizontal
>approach to web page design, instead of the common vertical layout ...

I tried to get the guy that did my original sight two years ago to do
this...he said it couldn't be done????? To me it is the obvious....ever go
through a gallery which has pictures displayed (stacked) on the vertical.
I don't think so.

>What is 'Autocratic Automation'?  Something to do with 'Giclee prints'

Nope.... The explanation is on the page displaying the image. It's my
political statement which no longer has meaning because the Liberal
Government has reversed the decision to automate the lighthouses.

SLFN

Graham

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From: Phil Bivins <pbivins@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 14:07:49 -0400
Subject: [Baren 847] Re: various 

I thought Grahams ending TFN meant 1. Thanks for nothing, or 2. Thanks for now
By the way welcome back Dave.
Phil

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From: Dan Wasserman <dwasser@slam.org>
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 13:32:52 -0500
Subject: [Baren 848] Re: Baren Digest V3 #169 

Dear Baren:

Most organic pigments you will now find are entirely artificial, synthetic, and 
permanent.  These are the synthetics that evolved out of petrocarbon chemistry 
and are known of as organic synthetics because they belong to that class of 
molecules featuring carbon that are treated in the field of organic chemistry.
Ultimately they do derive from organic materials since they are synthesized from 
fossil fuels.  The organic synthetics include the phthalocyanines, the mono-azo, the 
quinacridone and the anthroquinine colors which are actually dye-like lakes which 
must be deposited on colorless particles such as ammonium hydroxide for
use as pigments.  The colors derived from natural plant and animal substances are 
usually referred to as genuine or historic vegetable and animal colors, most are 
considered highly fugitive but some such as madder and indigo really do hold up 
pretty well.  The mineral colors include pigments refined from natural mineral
ores as well as those colors that are native earths, furnace colors (artificial ferrous 
oxides), and synthetics derived from metals (e.g. various oxide, stannous, cupric, 
arsinide ores).

Please excuse my spelling in the above, I have no references at hand as I write this.

Regards, Dan

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 14:02:45 -0700
Subject: [Baren 849] Re: Baren Digest V3 #169 

 Dan wrote
>Most organic pigments you will now find are entirely artificial, ... etc.

>Please excuse my spelling in the above, I have no references at hand as I
>write this.

Hell I can't even pronounce them!!!!!!

It is times like this that makes me glad I'm an artist and only interested
in the end results.
Sure glad we got people like Dan to keep track of all this kind of stuff.

HAGD

Graham

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From: Sheryl Coppenger <sheryl@seas.gwu.edu>
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 17:27:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Baren 850] Re: various 

> Welcome to the group, Sheryl.  Your work looks very attractive, and it's
> going to be interesting seeing what you come up with in woodblock ... 

Thanks, and welcome back.  
 
> Did you keep a set of progressive proofs of your 'pigeon' print?  I'd
> like to do an Encyclopedia page on the reduction process, and these
> would make an excellent example ...

Unfortunately, no.  I didn't keep a set of progressive proofs.  Sorry.
It was my first reduction print, I was just trying to get through it. :-)
 
> ***

> Dan wrote:
> >Dave will have to confirm this, but according to my wife
> >who as an art historian focussing on Edo Period prints is 
> >often asked by American collectors to look at their prints, 
> >earlier this century some prints were reproduced by inking up
> >woodblocks and transferring the various blocks to litho
> >stones... 
> 
> This is a new one to me Dan.  I've read about different methods of
> transferring images to litho stones, but have never seen a Japanese
> print made this way.  The final print would certainly have a different
> appearance, with the impression being made under the litho 'bar' instead
> of with a baren ... let alone the difference in pigments (oil?  water?).

I spoke with the litho professor here about it.  He also collects
Japanese prints and has some which were done via litho at the turn
of the century.  He says they're standard offset lithos, some of the
tones might have been done with a collatype process (a way of using
gelatin to "develop" continuous tones without screen dots or lines).
He's really dubious about water media being used for that purpose,
thinks that hand-coloring of some kind would be more likely if the
whole wasn't done in oil-based litho ink.  

However, he's a practitioner rather than a historian.  The folks at
the Freer Gallery here in DC might have run into some prints done
in non-standard ways.

Sheryl Coppenger  

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From: Sheryl Coppenger <sheryl@seas.gwu.edu>
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 17:29:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Baren 851] Re: various 

> P.S.   I wonder how many of you 'murricans' understood Graham's 
> 
> TFN
> 
> comment at the end of his posting yesterday?  Any guesses?

'Ta For Now?  

Sheryl Coppenger   

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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 08:03:29 +0900
Subject: [Baren 852] One-point lesson 

Here is this week's 'One-point' lesson, contributed by David Bull 

********** ********** **********

(#7)  Recessed registration marks

Cutting the registration marks for a woodblock print - the 'kagi' (the
'L' mark) and 'hikitsuke' (the straight mark) - can be a difficult
process.  If the colour masses are large and/or roughly cut, the
registration is sometimes not so important, but if fine lines are part
of the design, it becomes a critical matter.  If the hikitsuke is
misplaced by even a hair's breadth, the movement on the far side of the
paper is magnified by the 'pivoting' action, and unacceptable
mis-registration will result.  

Just as important as the position of the marks though, is their depth. 
In the ideal situation, the 'shelf' that is cut (on which the paper will
rest), is no deeper than the actual thickness of the paper itself. 
Cutting it much deeper will mean that the paper becomes 'bent' when it
is inserted, and accurate registration will be difficult.  

But when carved areas of the block lie near the areas where the marks
are cut, another problem arises - both the pigment brush and the baren
come in contact with the marks.  Not much can be done about the
brushing, and small smears of pigment will frequently be noticed 
on the margin of many woodblock prints in the area of the 'hikitsuke'. 
The baren problem though, cannot be ignored so easily.  If the baren
passes over the registration mark during rubbing, it is very likely to
be abraded by the contact with the wood at that point.  The bamboo cover
will become worn far more quickly than it need be.  It will also pick up
pigment from the wood and smear it over the back surface of the paper.

One solution is to recess the registration mark - both the 'shelf' _and_
the wood that surrounds it, by a half-millimetre or so.  There is a
trade-off here - recessing too deeply will cause the paper to curve
excessively ... but not recessing at all will result in damage to the
baren.  

And I'm sure that _anything_ that helps extend the life of the bamboo
cover will be appreciated ...

([Baren] member John Amoss has prepared illustrations to help make the
point clear.  They can be seen in the version of this One-point lesson
that is stored in the Encyclopedia)

********** ********** **********

Next week,  'If at first you don't succeed ...'

These 'One-point' lessons are being collected into a section in the
[Baren] Encyclopedia of Woodblock Printmaking.
http://www.woodblock.com/encyclopedia/updates.html

Contributions from experienced printmakers for future 'One-pointers' 
are eagerly solicited.


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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 18:47:11 -0700
Subject: [Baren 853] Re: One-point lesson 

>But when carved areas of the block lie near the areas where the marks
>are cut, another problem arises - both the pigment brush and the baren
>come in contact with the marks.  ... etc.

Hi Baren members.

There would be no problem here if you allow a generous border around the image.
Most of mine are 1 1/4" and bigger depending on image size.
I have seen prints with about a 1/4" and wonder why they would be made so small.
The generous border is such little cost and solves all the problem mentioned here.
Any prints I have seen with limited border give me the impression they were
done on the cheap.

Possibly it could be tradition......pppbbbrrr....(raspberry)

When I looked at many Walter J Phillips work, they had very small boarders.
I was disappointed.

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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 11:24:55 +0900
Subject: [Baren 854] Re: recessed kento 

Graham Scholes wrote (re: recessed kento):
> There would be no problem here if you allow a generous border around the image.

> The generous border is such little cost and solves all the problem
> mentioned here.

Using a wide border like the ones on your prints does indeed remove the
problem of having the baren strike the registration marks.  But it adds
a few more ... extra cost for paper, extra cost for blocks, and extra
difficulty with registration, due to the increased distance.

That basswood you are using is perhaps not so expensive, but the cherry
wood I use is quite costly.  A typical piece for one of my 'poet's'
prints is 12,000 yen (around $90 US), and the price starts to go up
_very_ dramatically if wider pieces are ordered.  If I wanted to leave a
wide border like yours, I would need to add about three centimetres to
the width of the board, and that would nearly double the cost of the
block ... _and_ the quality of the wood would almost certainly be worse
(there are not many large trees left ...).

Considering that I use up to five or six blocks for some of these
prints, you can see the problem ...

Then there's the extra paper cost ...

Actually though, this problem with the baren hitting the registration
marks isn't a problem for most of the blocks in any particular image ...
only the ones where the cut area is nearby.  In my case, that's usually
the key block.  Most of the colour blocks are not a problem.

Dave B.

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From: Jean Eger <jeaneger@LanMinds.Com>
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 23:19:10 -0700
Subject: [Baren 855] Re: Baren Digest V3 #169 

Dear Barens and Barenesses,
You might enjoy a new web site containing woodcuts by Hilary Lorenz--
http://www.hilarylorenz.com/
Sincerely,
Jean Eger

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End of Baren Digest V3 #170
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