[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest               Thursday, 16 July 1998       Volume 04 : Number 215

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From: jimandkatemundie@juno.com (James G Mundie)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:33:51 -0400
Subject: [Baren 1169] Baren 1168 

Matt wrote about rolling out Speedball, etc.:

Matt,
	I suppose I shouldn't have been so presumptuous, but I assumed
when I recommended water-based (hanga-type) pigment to Roger that he
would be using it in the usual way-- with brushes and paste.  Whether
that was Roger's intention I can't say!  

	You may be right about Speedball being rubber based.  I've never
bothered to find out.  It is a faux ink, meant to mimic (rather
unsuccessfully) oil-based inks.  I've only used Speedball to introduce
kids to relief printing-- the ink was readily available and easy to clean
up; smelled terrible and was awful to print with.  I seem to remember
that some of the kids' prints would remain slightly tacky for weeks after
printing, and the pigment would come off on your finger if touched.

Mise le meas,
James Mundie, Philadelphia USA

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From: Hideshi Yoshida <dodoland@silver.plala.or.jp>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:49:12 +0900
Subject: [Baren 1170] I'm not ... 

 Dear Richard ,

I'm afraid I'm not Mr. Hiroshi Yoshida 's descendant ,
though our family name is the same and our first names
sound similar .
I've seen a few pieces of his work before, maybe .

I heard Mr.Akira Kurosaki is one of your friends .
Please say thank you to him because I learnd a lot of things about
woodcut from a book he wrote .
It helped me so many times .

Hideshi

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From: StudioJNC@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:53:05 EDT
Subject: [Baren 1171] The Art of Japanese Prints 

To all of you bookaphiles out there.  I just had to share my latest book
acquistition One of the most beautiful books on Japanese prints, the old
school, that I have ever seen.  Not only is the art inspiring , the
reproductions are magnificent and the general layout of the book is a
masterpiece .  It is surely a treat for the eyes and the soul.
Hooray, something had to be said about Speedball.  I used it in my school days
and was very proud of the woodcuts at the time. They were featured in my
school paper as I was the Art Ed.  But I think I have graduated into a more
sophisticated art form and now try to use the best inks.  It is like using
newsprint as opposed to using a good BFK Rives,which is my choice, unless of
course I am doing a woodblock on a beautiful oriental paper.
Daves comment about getting serious really worked !!!
Good idea about showing Baren woodblocks to members.
Check out that gorgeous book, you will love it.
THE ART OF JAPANESE PRINTS
Publisher Lauarel Glen, 1997 
out of San Diego, Ca.

Jeanne

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From: nsampat@ix.netcom.com
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:22:40 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Baren 1172] Water-based Inks 

April wrote:

>Did anybody try the posting of waterbase rollup at:
http://www.bigfoot.com/~safeartinks 
>? I'm still suspicious, I guess because
>of the poor quality of Speedball inks, and just generally the fact that
>watercolor ISN'T sticky...so they must be adding a lot of unmentionable
>stuff to make it sticky.

I can appreciate the skeptitism after what all I have 
heard about Speedball Inks, which claim to have water-based inks.

To clarify:

1. We at Green Drop Ink Company use microparticle suspension technology
where true commercial printing grade pigment is the only component that 
gets left on paper after drying and the light fastedness is the same 
that is achived using oil-based inks or any other technology.
2. Two of our preproposals to USDOE have been approved where we will be 
working with NJ DEP to promote our technology in commercial offset printing 
(including commercial colored magazines and newspapaer printing).
3. Our inks have been successfully used by Master Printers of repute like
Nik Semenoff at U. of Saskatchewan, Ross Zirkle at U. of Kentucky, Jeff Sepple
at the Tamarind Institute, and Eileen Foti at Rutgers University. The inks are 
also currently being used in Japan. These Master Printers, having received at 
least two years of formal training in printmaking techniques have been teaching 
workshops to other printmakers/artists in Printmaking techniques.
4. Ours is a truly revolutionary technology that provides the benefits of 
oil-based inks without the VOCs and hydrocarbons and hence there are no 
fumes in the studio and the inks can be cleaned up with water.

The reason you have not heard of us is because we have been in product 
development and only since early May have started marketing our products. 

In the interest of both Green Drop Ink Company and Baren Group, I offer to 
provide 'AquaGraphic' Relief Ink samples at no cost to a 'Baren' printmaker 
who has experience with oil-based and Speedball inks as long as this artist 
commits to publishing his/her observations in Baren.

Sincerely,

Naresh Sampat
Safeartinks@bigfoot.com
Green Drop Ink Company
http;//www.bigfoot.com/~safeartinks

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From: Matthew.W.Brown@VALLEY.NET (Matthew W Brown)
Date: 15 Jul 98 14:56:36 EDT
Subject: [Baren 1173] History 

Richard, you wrote:
"As skillful as the Ukiyo-e and New
Ukiyo-e prints, they couldn't excite and still can't excite like a
really good, from-the-heart, "homemade" print can."

What do you mean here? Are prints by Munakata fitting into the category of
"really good, from the heart"? "Really good, from the heart" is a great
category of print, and probably an elusive one, no? I am still thinking the
prints of Harunobu are the best in this department (an indication of the
limitation of what i have seen?), although Michael Verne last month showed me a
print made in the Watanabe shop during the twenties that blew me right away
(artist I forget, not Hasui).  And there was one by Onchi Kochiro at the MFA
(James Mundie referred to this exhibit) that 'took' me. Is he one of the
'moderns'?

Matt

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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:10:27 +0900
Subject: [Baren 1174] Various points ... 

I'm happy to see the recent increase in the number of members from Japan
here on [Baren].  Right from the start of the forum I've felt a bit
uncomfortable about being perceived by the group as the 'guru' living in
this printmaking 'heaven', and I'm glad that these new viewpoints will
be heard.  There are now four of us from Japan on the list (to my
knowledge).  

***

Mr. Sampat,
Re your recent interesting posting:

>In the interest of both Green Drop Ink Company and Baren Group, I offer to 
>provide 'AquaGraphic' Relief Ink samples at no cost to a 'Baren' printmaker 
>who has experience with oil-based and Speedball inks as long as this artist 
>commits to publishing his/her observations in Baren.

It was interesting to see that [Baren] members didn't respond much to
your previous postings that mentioned your new inks.  [Baren] is
technically supposed to be a non-commercial forum, where members can't
directly sell their products, and I think that maybe everybody was a bit
hestitant about 'encouraging' you ...

But actually, your postings were quite restrained, and you simply
offered us information.  Thank you for helping us maintain this 'mood'.

As to your new offer, I think this is an excellent idea.  I myself have
no experience with 'roll-up' inks, so can not take up your suggestion,
but I hope that some other [Baren] member(s) will do so, and will then
report back to us on the results.  

***

Re the 'One-point' lessons:

I'm getting great feedback on these, but I would like to remind
everybody that the 'One-point' lessons are not intended to be a series
from _David_, but a series from _members_.  I want to see them start to
cover a wider ground.  There are a million possible topics out there,
and I myself only have knowledge of a very small proportion of them.

Please share some of your knowledge with the other members.  Send me
either potential ideas for submissions, or actual lessons themselves. 
You are familiar with the format by now ...   (I would like to ask that
you please don't post them directly to the forum, but send them to me
privately instead, so that I can organize and schedule them in an 
orderly way ...).  

***

Dave B.

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From: Gary Luedtke <GLuedtke@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:08:58 -0400
Subject: [Baren 1175] "Computer Art" 

Does anyone else out there use a computer in their preparation of sketches
for woodblock prints?

The little I have heard from "Baren" members regarding computers was about
the "artwork" coming out of their color printers, (Giclee), or its use in
communicating via e-mail, or as a means of posting a webpage.

I know this may taste of heresy to some, but I have found using one to be
very helpful in working up designs.  Of course I have never attempted to
hand-print my own work so perhaps some of the problems I have perceived, as
a designer,  you have overcome naturally when you step up to the carving
table and paste the hanshita to the block.

So you all must "think" in terms of how you can carve and print an image as
you are developing it.  Perhaps you have the image in your mind already,
and as a mastered craft "facilitates expression", you simply select your
brush or pen and in a few minutes there it is, ready to paste and carve. 
This designer is not so fortunate, or perhaps expert, enough to do that.  I
have to work through my designs, set them aside, see what bothers me, come
back and revise, etc. etc.  Of course the time comes when as Dave says, you
must "cut, print!'  Until that time though, it is never too late to
improve.   And this is where I find the computer very helpful. 

 I can scan in my drawing, and bring it up in an art program, and begin to
study it through the various tools available.  It can be inverted,
recolored, put into black and white to check for tonal values, distorted,
colored in, gradated,  magnified down to the pixel, and put through a host
of other manipulations to examine it in different ways.   The art programs
give one a tremendous extention of scope in producing art, as it can save a
lot of time.  Of course you printers can do many things as you run your
proofs in the way of color selection and so on, but not having that luxury,
and needing to "show" someone else who is printing my work the effects I am
after, it comes in quite handy.  I would imagine this could save many of
you some time however in realizing your ideas more clearly before you ever
set knife to block or pigments to brush.

So, is anyone else out there doing anything like this with a computer, or
do I need to get my short sword and step into the back room to restore
honor to the group?

Gary Luedtke
Kansas City

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From: "Don S Rich" <DARICH@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 20:38:59 -0700
Subject: [Baren 1176] Re: Water-based Inks 

 Mr. Sampat wrote:
> In the interest of both Green Drop Ink Company and Baren Group, I offer to 
> provide 'AquaGraphic' Relief Ink samples at no cost to a 'Baren' printmaker 
> who has experience with oil-based and Speedball inks 

I am a new subscriber to the barren but I have been producing woodcuts for
over a decade and I use exclusively oil base inks.  I too find speedball
unacceptable but have been quite pleased with Daniel Smiths relief inks. 
If you would like to view my work I have a web site at  
http://www.natureartists.com/richa.htm   
 
Like everyone I am concerned with the environment and am interested in
trying your inks.  Of course I would be happy to report my findings to the
group.  Perhaps you could send me further information about the ink and the
colors, lightfastness, etc.  You may contact me directly at my e-mail
address  darich@prodigy.net  for a mailing address if you'd like to send
samples.

Thank you,
Andrea Rich

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End of Baren Digest V4 #215
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