[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest               Thursday, 30 July 1998       Volume 04 : Number 229

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From: steiner <steiner@mbox.kyoto-inet.or.jp>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:31:49 +0900
Subject: [Baren 1270] Hiroshi Yoshida's book 

That book is a fine one, indeed, but I just want to put in one word of
caution.  It was written many decades ago and has some out of date, even
wrong information in it. Yoshida, remember, was an oil painter, not a
hanga craftsman.  He took the bulk of his facts from his employees and
other craftsmen.  They experimented for him following his inquirers.  One
case in point, now fairly well known, is the deterioration of sizing over
time.  Yoshida states on page 6 that sizing disappears after about a year
and a half.  It seems now that this simply is not true.  Kurosaki and
others I have asked, including a paper shop here in town, say that sizing
(dosa in japanese) does not go away.  They couldn't understand what
Yoshida meant.  My dosa man, Mr Hasegawa, also doesn't know what was
meant. Perhaps, as I think about it, dosa may weaken over time because,
after all, it is an organic material, subject to heat, sunlight and dust.
My regular paper shop man told me that some washi even gets better as it
ages, the sizing sort of settling into the fibers, perhaps.  Is this due
to a weakened sizing, or to something else?  He didn't know.  Currently I
am using a Tori-no-ko paper that is made up of mitsumata fiber and pulp,
with no mulberry fiber whatsoever.  As  it ages, it turns to gold, from a
printer's point of view.  I had some lying around for ten years, and when
I went to print it one day last year, I ascended straight into heaven.
And there was no need to have it resized beforehand.  The colors and black
sumi ink behaved perfectly.  If there had been no dosa remaining, that
wouldn't have occurred.
Read Hiroshi Yoshida's book with this in mind, please.

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From: steiner <steiner@mbox.kyoto-inet.or.jp>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:31:53 +0900
Subject: [Baren 1271] Washi on the Wood 

GRAHAM: the first way I learned to position the paper onto the blocks,
similar to the one RAY wrote about and I referred to in Baren 1263, is
this: before inking the block, lay the washi on it so that there will be
even margins all around.  Take a couple heavy, flat weights and put them
right on either the left side of the paper/block, the right side, the far
side or near.  Just where matters a lot.  Why? This method cannot be used
when printing very large areas, the overlapping of inking shows up too
baldly.  Rather, if your board has a lot of isolated areas, some to be
inked, some not, or if the areas to be printed are connected by only carved
lines, there will be no problem about placement.  Placing the weights on
areas that are not to be printed is safe, naturally, whether they be on the
left, right, top or near sides;  or placing them so that you can easily
print at least half the sheet at a time would be time-saving.
It doesn't matter if you are going to print on this board one color or
more.  Lift the free side of the washi, fold it back upon itself and ink
the areas visible.  Relay the paper back over the board and baren it.
(Baren is now a verb.)  Lift the paper to inspect your work;  if you want a
richer color overall, reink.  If you want only one part or section richer,
darker, reink it only and reprint. With the paper still in place, move the
weights to the other side, lift the paper up, ink the remaining sections,
repeat as above.  This technique works well with very large prints, with
prints that need special attention to certain areas, with boards that have
several colors on them, and with very thin paper.  If you are printing only
one board, then you are now finished. However, if there are more boards
with more colors, then we run up against the keying problem.  Having the
registration marks cut on the boards is best; when laying the paper on the
board, instead of centering it as I said above, set it into the keys (kento
in japanese) and lay the weights on.  If you want to use registration marks
that are not cut on the board (because there is no room for them),
employing the "outside" keying (soto kento), is the answer.  Make a
perfectly 90 degree L-shaped board, only a few centimeters wide on both
legs, one leg short, other long.  It should be the same thickness as the
boards you are printing. Nest the block into the L before laying the paper
on.  Beforehand, you have drawn and cut kento marks on this L. (It makes no
difference whatsoever if the corner key is on the left or right.
Traditionally, yes, it was always on the same side, but not today.  There
are good reasons for this which we will take up another time.) Then,
proceed as above.  It is assumed that when transferring the images to the
boards, you aligned them all with this L. However, if some of the boards'
registration marks do not line the already printed colors up with the next
board, it is a simple matter to find the correct alignment, pencil in the
new key positions, and continue.  Simple matter:  lay the paper on the
board, more or less in the correct kento position, and with your
fingertips, feel thru the paper where the edges of the already printed
areas line up with those to be printed next.  This technique was the one
used by the Independents in defiance of the Ukiyo-e boys.  It is slow, but
accurate.
If you are interested in printing an edition of, say, 200, then this is not
the way to go.  But if you are only doing a handful, and you are having
problems with keying, color richness, color fades (bokashi) from one color
to another or within one color, or very large size sheets, then this
technique is one answer. (The rather well-known print artist, Seiko
Kawachi, inventor of a new ball bearing baren I mentioned last week, uses a
tube of cardboard several centimeters in diameter to roll up from the
moistening pile the next sheet to be printed, then unroll it over the
board.  It is one way, and a neat one, but his accuracy is not 100% on.
With the type of prints he makes, that doesn't matter, however.  I use his
method for my middle-large size pieces.  For the truly big prints, 2 meters
by 1 meter, I use the above way.)
In my previous letter, I said that there are several other ways to register
the paper onto the blocks.  I talked about Kurosaki's way, the Edo way, the
block-edge way and the Chinese Nenga way.  There is another.  I have not
utilized it but I read about it.  It involves sticking long pins into tiny
holes on one edge of the washi, then lining them up with pin holes
pre-punched in the boards.  Yet another way is to "lock" the sheet to be
printed in place, then bring the boards to be inked and printed one by one
to the sheet!  On the table are stoppers that act as the registration marks
for the boards.
Perhaps this is enuf for now. Oh, yes, there was one more thing I wanted to
say.  RAY, and others who print on thin washi and want to use the Edo way
of laying it on the boards (traditional kento), when you remove the sheet
to be printed from the moistening pile, first lay it on some flat surface,
quickly take a dry sheet of paper that is thicker than the washi, for
example,  a thick sheet of washi, and that is only slightly smaller than
the sheet to be printed.  Lay it on the back of the thin sheet in such a
way that you can see about 5cc or so of the paper sticking out from under
the dry sheet at the kento points.  Pick this package up just as you would
a thick, single sheet of washi; that is, the leading edge that runs between
your two hands is straight, the far, top, edge slightly curved, and lay the
sheets on the board.  Remove the dry sheet and baren away. (Baren is still
a verb.)
Hope this helps, GRAHAM. As for a video clip, yes, that is the way to go,
and I will. But first, my Web page needs attention.

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From: Gayle Wohlken <blueman@pantek.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:13:34 -0400
Subject: [Baren 1272] Re: Baren Digest V4 #228 

Dave, I just got a look at those photos and I am overwhelmed!
The detail is better than eyes (at least mine).  Could you tell
us more about this camera?  How do you put the images
into the computer?  I know these are kind of dumb questions 
but I've never understood how cameras work with computers.
Is there a special kind of scanner?  Does it go on a disk only?

Gayle Wohlken

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From: Jean Eger <jeaneger@LanMinds.Com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:10:45 -0700
Subject: [Baren 1273] Re: Baren Digest V4 #228 

Dave,
Thanks for showing us a photo of your beautiful daughter.  I was teaching
art at a Methodist vacation school this week.  We have girls here who are
also very fond of cats.  I think you have a better camera than me.
Jean

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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:01:38 +0900
Subject: [Baren 1274] Re: sizing ... 

Gayle asked:
> Could you tell us more about this camera?  How do you put the 
> images into the computer?  ... etc.

I've sent an answer on this directly to Gayle ...  If anyone else wants
to hear such info, just drop me a note ...

***

Richard wrote, re the Yoshida book:
> It was written many decades ago and has some out of date, even
> wrong information in it ...
> One case in point, now fairly well known, is the deterioration of 
> sizing over time.  Yoshida states on page 6 that sizing disappears 
> after about a year and a half.  It seems now that this simply 
> is not true.  

Richard, my experiences on this have been somewhat different from yours,
and more in line with Yoshida's.  But rather than just 'shoot from the
hip' and respond immediately, I think I should collect a bit of info
from people more experienced than I.  I'll get back to you shortly ...

Dave 

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From: jimandkatemundie@juno.com (James G Mundie)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:28:47 -0400
Subject: [Baren 1275] A proposition 

Folks,
	I've talked to Dave about this and he was enthusiastic, so now
it's time to see what the rest of you think.  Would anyone be willing to
participate in and entirely voluntary [Baren] portfolio exchange?  For
the small investment of some time and inspiration, every participant will
expand their collection!

This is how it might work:

Those who wish to participate will produce a print in a quantity _at
least_ equal to the number of participants.  Method, paper and subject
could be open, so long as the print is produced from a woodblock; the
only restriction should probably be an agreed upon paper size, so that
all of the prints are of a uniform dimension.

Upon the agreed deadline, participants would mail their completed prints
in a re-usable container (with return postage) to a particular [Baren]
volunteer for sorting.  That volunteer will then assemble complete
portfolios consisting of one of every  submitted print, which will then
be shipped back to each participant.  

For those of us that produce limited editions, the print you supply to
the [Baren] exchange could be an exclusive print for the exchange; or,
the portion of the edition given to the exchange should account for
numbers 1 to x (x being equal to the number of participants).  Ideally
then, each participant would receive the same number for each print (ex.:
person A gets every number x print, person B gets every number y print,
etc.).

The details have yet to be ironed out, but I'm anxious to hear other
people's responses and ideas.  So that Baren shouldn't get overly clogged
with exchange related messages, please address your comments to either me
or Dave off list. 

If all goes well, this could be the start of a new [Baren] tradition. 
Two of us are already committed... any other takers?

Mise le meas,
James Mundie, Philadelphia USA

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:39:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 1276] portfolio exchange 

James wrote......
>Those who wish to participate will produce a print in a quantity _at
>least_ equal to the number of participants.  Method, paper and subject
>could be open, so long as the print is produced from a woodblock; the
>only restriction should probably be an agreed upon paper size, so that
>all of the prints are of a uniform dimension.

If this goes ahead then a dead line date may be a consideration.
We have about 40 odd bods now and who knows how many lurkers.

I would not want to print a large edition.  I did on last year of 200 and
not keen about doing another.

Graham

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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:54:44 +0900
Subject: [Baren 1277] Re: sizing 

Richard wrote, re the Yoshida book:
> It was written many decades ago and has some out of date, even
> wrong information in it ...
> One case in point, now fairly well known, is the deterioration of 
> sizing over time.  Yoshida states on page 6 that sizing disappears 
> after about a year and a half.  It seems now that this simply 
> is not true.  

Dave wrote:
> I think I should collect a bit of info from people more experienced 
> than I.  I'll get back to you shortly ...

OK.  I've called up a few people to see what they had to say about 
this ... I should admit right at the start that I fully expected them to give
me the 'Yoshida' line, that dosa fades away fairly quickly after
application.  But the story wasn't so simple, and it seems as though we
have quite an interesting point here ...  

(Here is a paraphrase of each of their Japanese language comments)


*** Printer Keizaburo Matsuzaki:
Not typically something we have to deal with; each publisher orders and
sends paper to suit each job.  It's usually freshly sized.  

Paper is not at its best when _just_ sized; after about a year or so I
would think it is probably at its peak.  From about five years old or so
the sizing will start to become a bit uneven - 'hard' in some places,
'soft' in others.  It becomes difficult to produce even and smooth
colour.  


*** Printer Kenji Seki:
Don't usually have to think about this, as the paper is nearly always
made-to-order for each job, and sized to order ...

With high-quality 100% kozo (mulberry) washi, I wouldn't anticipate any
problems.  After some years have gone by, the sizing might become
somewhat uneven, and wouldn't allow smooth 'tsubushi' printing.

If you want to keep paper a long time, it is better to store it in the
unsized condition.  It will last for centuries pretty much unchanged. 
Then have it sized some months before it is time for use.


*** Baren maker (and printmaker) Kikuo Gosho:
This shouldn't be a problem with quality kozo washi.  Some unevenness
might develop after a few years.  With cheaper papers, or ones with pulp
included, it might be more of a problem.


*** Paper sizer, Mr. Isami Misawa
Sizing disappears after a year or so?  No way ... I've never heard of
such a thing.  Just the reverse - the size has 'settled' and has been
absorbed properly only after two maybe three years.  Then the paper is
in the best condition.  If you wait too long however, the paper starts
to gradually become too soft, and of course it starts to slowly turn
brown, especially around the edges, even completely acid-free papers
like hosho.

The way that printers nowadays get the paper specially ordered for each
project and then use it right away ... that's not so good.  The size is
still brittle and hard.

***

(Back to David ...)
I also wanted to check with a couple of publishers on this.  These are
the people who generally order and stock a lot of paper.  But I don't
want to call up Mr. Saeki just yet, as I 'bothered' him just recently
(about that block ...).  Next time I'm talking to him, I'll toss this
one out and see what he can add.

As for Mr. Adachi, the owner of the Adachi Institute, it's also not such
a good time for me to call him either.  I bothered him too much some
time ago, and have to be careful ...

So this is all I can offer at the moment. I think it seems to be a bit
of an open question.  None of these professionals thought that there was
a big problem with 'old' sizing, certainly not to the extent that
Yoshida reports.  But they _do_ mention changes in the paper as time
passes, not all of these favourable.

Thanks for picking this up Richard, and showing us that there is
something here worth looking into further ...

Dave 

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End of Baren Digest V4 #229
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