[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Baren Digest Sunday, 6 September 1998 Volume 04 : Number 266 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Esposito Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 14:24:51 -0400 Subject: [Baren 1527] Folio 1999 - Part II Julio's 3 point post of 9-4-98 makes some interesting points. Along with other comments and some of the private mail I am getting I want to respond to everyone at once rather than writing individual posts. This is developing into a philosophical discussion which I think is good for all artists and since it involves the folio, for Baren as well. As you "old-timers" know, I have been a collector for almost 35 years. More than 90% of my collection is prints but there are other works including a few oils, folios and illustrated books. Over the years I have been having a running battle with a number of gallery owners, many of whom are personal friends. Some gallery owners see nothing wrong with ripping apart a perfectly good book to sell the individual plates. I find this offensive. The reason of course is money. Some, me included, would say greed. One of my books is from 1840 and in perfect shape. The binding is excellent and the plates look like they were hand painted yesterday and the ink is still wet. You are almost afraid to touch it. A rare book dealer would charge you $800-$900 for the book. A gallery owner would rip it apart, sell the plates and get a total of $10,000. Is this good business? Of course. Is it good morals? No way. How does that relate to the folio? A folio is no different than an illustrated book, other than no glue has been put on the edges to hold them together. It is a "book" of art. It illustrates a specific period in time for a specific purpose. The purpose of Folio 1999 is to show what Baren was like at the start of 1999 and what its members were doing in the world of woodblock art. It is a "book" that freezes in time, and for all time, a moment and a group of people who came together for a purpose. That purpose is Folio 1999. Julio points out that he wants to hang a few of the works. As my good friend Graham wrote to Elisa, it is his folio to do with as he wishes but I ask, how is this different from the dealer? Put in another context, let's look ahead to January, 2016 and Folio 2016, the eighteenth in the series. When you look on the wall at a print, will you remember which folio it came from? Are some of the prints now hanging in your office, your mom's house, the beachside cottage, given to a friend in a moment of passion? Do you remember when they were produced and which folio they belong to? Is any of this important? Important????? I think it is critical. Julio writes "But here I would argue that these prints will have no unifying theme". I could not disagree more. And Julio, I do disagree strongly but respectfully. Each time an artist produces a work, a little of him or her goes into that work. Each artist gives of their soul for that piece. That piece IS that artist. When I look through a folio I see a work by David Bull, then turn the page and see a work by Elisa Flynn. Besides the pure beauty of each piece, I see a unifying theme. Nothing will be more different in the folio than prints by Dave and Elisa. And yet, they are the same. Exactly the same. They are part of Folio 1999. Each put their heart and soul into their print. Each did so because the "unifying theme" was to participate in a project as members of Baren; to be one through this project. We can produce individual pieces whenever we wish but this is "our" project, not "my" project. When you take one or more of the pieces to hang, you are no longer looking at a print by Dave and a print by Elisha. You no longer have an "illustrated book of art". If you want to have individual pieces from these artists, ask them. They may send you something. But by taking the folio apart, you are looking at individual works, spread all over the place, which at that time, no longer have a unifying theme. Oh sure, you can hang Dave and Elisa next to each other on the wall. But can you then lay Elisa next to Esposito, or Jim Mundie next to John Amoss? Can you then move Dave Bull next to Roxanne Sexauer? Can you look at the folio as it was intended, as a book with moveable pages; pages that can be laid next to each other to show the pure beauty of the works together or as individual pieces? To take a piece out of the folio is no different than taking a plate from a book. Dave is investigating the idea of having a folio box made. I told him I was not concerned with costs (but will of course go along with whatever everyone else wanted). The box will be made by a craftsman - an individual artist in Japan who is as skilled in his art as any member of Baren. I suggested to Dave that the box have imprinted in Japanese and English, "Baren - Folio 1999" in white. That box is as valuable as any individual piece in the folio. That artist may not be a woodblock craftsman but he is an artist none the less. His box unify's the folio. I would no more break up the folio than I would destroy the box - or a book. That folio box is the "cover" to my illustrated book. And finally, permit me to say, I am not a purist here. A purest would say it is wrong to break apart any book, anytime, under any circumstances. I take a more benign position and say if the book is in tatters, it can be broken up. I have a book printed in 1640. I found it in a junk bin. The spine is missing, many pages are missing and the only thing holding it together are a couple of rubber bands. If a gallery wanted to sell the plates from this book, I would not have a problem with it. Folio 1999 however is not in tatters, its spine (the box) is not missing and all of the pieces will be there. If any are not, it then becomes like the 1640 book. Something to be dispersed to the winds to...God knows where. I realize and appreciate I am in the minority here but I wanted to express my views and look forward to hearing from others. Your turn. Cheers Ray Esposito ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 23:24:18 +0900 Subject: [Baren 1528] Page update ... May I mention an update ... not to the Encyclopedia this time though, but to my own pages ... I've finally got around to getting the most recent four prints scanned in, and they are now up there, along with their accompanying stories. http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~xs3d-bull/update/update_log.html For those of you who are enjoying a 17" (or larger) monitor, I've also put up a new page that displays a full screen of those prints - 50 at a time. It's accessible from: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~xs3d-bull/hyaku-nin-isshu/choose_which_print.html (scroll down to the bottom of either column to find the link ...) 97 down ... 3 to go ... Dave ------------------------------ From: Elisa Flynn Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 19:25:47 -0500 Subject: [Baren 1529] Re: folio Gee, Ray, it was just an idea! I understand the idea of not hanging a folio,but I am more afraid of people getting their unwashed hands all over the prints than the dangers of temporarily hanging the prints. Also, some info on my gallery, an 8-member co-op: a) We show mostly (at least 85%) unknown artists. b) We are in a small city, with a very small arts scene, and feel it is our mission to showcase artwork that would never get exhibited locally otherwise. We have an appreciative, regular audience. c) We love our gallery, but we accept that it is a money pit. We all pay a fee every month to cover rent and bills. We sell a few pieces per show, and make a few bucks if we are lucky, that just get rolled back into the place. We are not doing this to make money. So showing unknown artists whose work is not for sale is not the worst thing we've ever done. d) We accept that the above makes us freaks, but we just love sharing art we find interesting with others, and don't expect much more out of it. e) Like I said, it was just an idea. ------------------------------ From: Ray Esposito Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 02:00:40 -0400 Subject: [Baren 1530] Re: folio Elisa wrote: >Gee, Ray, it was just an idea! And keep those cards and letters coming. Even if I disagree with an idea, that doesn't mean my way is the way everyone else wants to go. Many of my ideas get shot down (and it never bothers me) and a few are considered worthy of development. Keep them coming. >I understand the idea of not hanging a folio, but I am more afraid of people >getting their unwashed hands all over the prints than the dangers of >temporarily hanging the prints. A good point. What I do is I bought white cotton gloves in three sizes. They sit on the folio table with a little sign asking people to use the gloves when reviewing any folio. Cheap, simple, effective. Actually, after I relocate to Snow Hill I plan on putting folios in a glass case. Visitors are welcome to look at them but I will be there to explain how I want them to do it and hand them a pair of gloves. Actually, I recommend gloves to anyone who is going to be showing ANY artwork that people will be handling. If people aren't willing to use gloves to look at your art collection, they aren't the kind of people you want to share it with. >Also, some info on my gallery, an 8-member co-op: >a) We show mostly (at least 85%) unknown artists. Good for you >b) We are in a small city, with a very small arts scene, and feel it is our >mission to showcase artwork that would never get exhibited locally otherwise. The town I am moving to, Snow Hill has a population of just over 5,000. It will be an experience. What city do you live in? >c) We love our gallery, but we accept that it is a money pit. We all pay a >fee every month to cover rent and bills. We sell a few pieces per show, and >make a few bucks if we are lucky, that just get rolled back into the place. >We are not doing this to make money. So showing unknown artists whose >work is not for sale is not the worst thing we've ever done. You are to be congratulated for supporting unknown artists. >d) We accept that the above makes us freaks, but we just love sharing art we >find interesting with others, and don't expect much more out of it. I don't know why you feel you are freaks. I doubt anyone else would. Certainly not in Baren. Sharing art is what art should be all about. >e) Like I said, it was just an idea. Like I said, keep those ideas coming. I am sure the majority of Baren members will continue to support your idea. The fact I am against it should not disuade you from going ahead. Remember, my arguement against is philosophical. Just because I will not do it, is no reason for you not to follow your desires. Good luck in your co-op Cheers Ray Esposito ------------------------------ From: Ramsey Household Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 20:02:26 -0700 Subject: [Baren 1531] Re: folio Gee Ray, I thought you were a rule breaker, not a rule maker!! : >} Carolyn ------------------------------ From: Daniel Kelly Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 14:29:11 +0000 Subject: [Baren 1532] Hello and Green Drop Hello to all of you. I am Daniel Kelly and live in Kyoto. I make woodblock prints, and various forms of mixed media prints. I am a deshi of Tokuriikii Tomikichiro. Although I studied classic techniques I find no personal need to focus on repeating the methods of those who came before us. I use what ever seems to suit the image. I don't own any form of printing press other than several kinds of baren. I like to combine the beauty of water based pigment pressed into the fiber of the paper by the baren with the gestural flow of lithographic touch plates. However, my main focus is really on painting. In viewing your archives I noticed that some of you are trying Green Drop Inks. This product is excellent. The primary benefits are the lack of volitiles and the ease of clean up. If your needs require an waterbed litho type tacky ink you will be happy. I personally don't like to smell the lithotene, etc.. in my studio. The inks have the qualities of both water based and oil based products. This is not an alkyd either. The relief inks from Green Drop should also be excellent to achieve the heavy application commonly seen in prints produced with oil based inks outside of the classic Japanese process. If you want a really all around solution then Green Drop is also good as it can be thinned down with water to act as any other water suspension pigment. If , however, you are doing classic Japanese printing with a brush and don't require any oil like properties there is probably not much need for inks which are formulated for brayer application. (In fact this can easily be done with any waterbed color and a bit of starch such as nori.) That all being said, print on. ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 14:48:48 +0900 Subject: [Baren 1533] Re: New member Daniel Kelly wrote: > Hello to all of you. I am Daniel Kelly and live in Kyoto. Hello Dan. Nice to see yet another member from Japan here on the forum. I think that makes five of us now - maybe we'll catch up to the Americans yet ... > I am a deshi of Tokuriikii Tomikichiro. Then that makes two, or perhaps even three, of his proteges here. Is he still active, by the way? He must be nearly 200 years old by now, surely ... > In viewing your archives I noticed that some of you are trying Green > Drop Inks. This prompts me to ask - have any of the other members of [Baren] anything to report about these inks? I understand that some of you were going to give them a trial and let us know what turned up ... Still a bit too soon? Dave ------------------------------ From: Ray Esposito Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 13:06:56 -0400 Subject: [Baren 1534] Re: folio <199809060151.KAA19592@ml.asahi-net.or.jp> Carolyn wrote: >Gee Ray, I thought you were a rule breaker, not a rule maker!! : >} Carolyn You found me out. Actually, you have to make rules before you can break them. I am a traditionalist in many areas but feel you can honor tradition while always breaking new ground. And that might mean breaking the rules. Cheers Ray Esposito ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V4 #266 ***************************