[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Baren Digest Saturday, 7 November 1998 Volume 05 : Number 334 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ray Esposito" Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:46:51 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2005] Re: A most interesting day ... Dave Thanks for sharing your most interesting day with us. Ray ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 22:49:43 +0900 Subject: [Baren 2006] Re: A most interesting day ... Gary asked a question or two, and what the hell, I didn't really feel like sleeping tonight anyway, so here goes ... > How many are in this association? It's the 'Tokyo Woodblock Printmaking Craftsmen's Association', and it's sort of a cross between a guild, a preservation association, and a drinking club. The membership list I've got here (a couple of years out of date - they don't bother to print a new one each year) shows about 45 members. I think this breaks down to eight or nine carvers, nearly thirty printers, and the rest are people like the block maker, Misawa-san the sizer, etc. But there is no way that all those guys are still active. Their name stays on the roll until they actually pass away, so some of that 45 are actually not working any longer. I should also mention too that this is the _Tokyo_ association. There is a similar group in Kyoto, about which I know very little ... > What are some of the others doing in the way of projects? In recent years, not an awful lot ... There is still a bit of Ukiyo-e reproduction work being done (and they are currently working of a reproduction of Hiroshige's 'Meisho Edo Hyakkei'). During the last decade or so, quite a bit of reproductions of Japanese 'nihonga' paintings were made, but that sort of thing is on hold now, with the economic slowdown. There are still dribs and drabs of specialized work like doing special First Day covers for the Post Office, and things like the religious labels I mentioned earlier. When I visited one guy recently, he was working on a reproduction of an ancient buddhist textbook, sponsored by some rich temple ... > Did they come up with any interesting defining differences between carvers > and printers? Absolutely no consensus. That part of the evening's discussion dissolved into complete anarchy. For every example offered, a counter-example was immediately presented ... > How many of these folks do both, as yourself? None of them. And when they passed my prints around last night, I heard the _same_ two comments repeated again and again. 'You do _both_!?! Amazing ...!' That sort of feels good, but such comments are inevitably followed by another; if it is a _printer_ talking, he inspects the work closely, looks up, and then says 'Cheeze - this carving is amazing!'. If it is a _carver_ talking, he nudges the printer sitting next to him and says, 'Get a load of this printing!' Don't laugh - this is a _true_ story! I had been telling the TV director about this sort of comment in an earlier discussion with her, and when these guys actually came out with these phrases, she practically rolled on the floor laughing! But what am I supposed to think - two guys give me two great compliments ... But are they _really_ compliments? I haven't a clue! > O.K., what is "yakitori"? It's that grilled chicken on a stick stuff ... Very tasty indeed ... > How do "these" people run their business? Are they sought out to do this > kind of work, do they have to hustle work themselves? Are they > "employees" of printing outfits? They sit and wait for the phone to ring. They are simply 'hired guns'. They do no hustling, no P_R, no nothing ... There is quite a complicated system in place to distribute the work among the members, and I only have the faintest idea about how it works. (I am completely separate from that end of things - I work completely by myself, and share none of their work). Who gets what job depends on who was apprenticed to who, and who got the original contract, and who owes who what favours this week, and ... you get the idea ... > Are they an "honored" group within > society because of their traditional roles and therefore work finds them? Not really. They are just like a group of specialized carpenters. You don't find any 'Living National Treasures' in this group - these guys are considered workmen, not artists. But because their work is so laden in tradition, they do get general respect. The ward office in their area has given some of them awards for 'cultural heritage' and the like, and Ito-san has been asked to leave his tools to the local museum - that sort of thing. > To what extent are they employing more modern techniques or materials such > as the fellow you mentioned using cherry veneer? A lot more that I personally would like to see. Those labels that Matsuzaki-san was printing were done with traditional wooden colour blocks (carved in magnolia), but the key block was photographically reproduced onto zinc, not carved. His son was using a roller and cheap tube block printing ink to zap them off, one by one ... just about as fast as my eyes could follow ... It's pretty much economics - the plywood boards for Ito-san's print would be (I'm guessing here) around 15,000 yen each, maybe a quarter the cost of the 'real' thing. And to have Matsuzaki-san's labels carved by hand would have taken a week's work ... maybe around 100,000 yen. Doing it in zinc probably cost around 3,000. If you're a publisher, that's one hell of a powerful incentive. And of course, this is the same pressure that has been on these guys for just about a hundred years now, ever since the printing presses arrived from Europe. It's actually astonishing that anything at all of this group has survived this far ... And now, if _I'm_ to survive any further, I've got to get back to the workroom - there's still enough time to get the paper wet for #99 before crashing for the night! Dave ------------------------------ From: Gayle Wohlken Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:30:50 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2007] Re: Baren Digest V5 #333 Good questions from Gary regarding Dave's "union" of woodblock printmakers. Dave, I think Gary's questions to you need some answering and I hope you put it on Baren instead of a private message to Gary. I feel these are questions all of us have. And there's no one who can put us there (at one of your events) quite like you. Gayle Wohlken ------------------------------ From: April Vollmer/John Yamaguchi Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:02:20 -0400 Subject: [Baren 2008] Pigment in Water All of you who have been writing about using pigment for water base printing...it's a great way to get rich color, but be sure to buy it ground in water...a water dispersion, it's called. This makes it easy to mix with some binder (a gum arabic mixture). You don't want to breathe the powder, many colors are poisonous! Does Sinopia have pigment in water? Also, it's good to check on the lightfastness of the pigments...you can try it out, or look it up in a book (like Wilcox Guide). April Vollmer ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:14:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Baren 2009] A most interesting day ... Dave wrote...... >But it was certainly good fun, and thanks to this TV crew, I'm now >considered much more of a real 'member' of the group than I have been up >to now. It a wonderful sense of satisfaction to be accepted by your peers. Enjoy it Dave... >Sorry to ramble on about my own stuff so much ... Don't be sorry......I can empathize with you exactly. It is an occasion that that sometimes only happens once in a lifetime and will play out for a lifetime. Enjoy.......... Graham ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:14:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Baren 2010] Re: A most interesting day ... Gary wrote.... >O.K., what is "yakitori"? A room full of drunk Japanese + one Englishman. Graham ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 13:16:25 +0900 Subject: [Baren 2011] 'One-point' lesson ... Here is this week's 'One-point' lesson (contributed by Dave Bull) ********** ********** ********** (#29) Making paper 'soft' for printing ... Not again! Is David really going to talk about paper moistening _again_?!! Hasn't he pretty much said all there is to say about this topic? Well, actually ... no. In the Encyclopedia entries on this topic, I've shown my actual methods of moistening, and here in these 'lessons' both myself and some other contributors have described how paper is maintained at the appropriate moisture level, but there is one extremely important point that has not been covered yet ... the fact that all this talk about making paper _moist_ misses the point. Not only does it miss the point, it is actually downright _wrong_! We _don't want_ water in the paper! Water is _poison_ to woodblock printmaking! Got your attention? *** Let's go back in time some years - David is visiting printer Keizaburo Matsuzaki for the first time ... Dave (watching Matsuzaki-san printing): May I touch the paper? I'd like to see how wet it is. Matsuzaki-san: Sure, go ahead. That's the only way you will be able to tell how soft it is. Dave (gently fingering the paper): I see ... So I should be shooting for about this level of water ... Matsuzaki-san: This is the level of softness you should be aiming for. Dave (thinking to himself): 'I wonder what the % of moisture content is ...?' Matsuzaki-san (thinking to himself): 'He just doesn't understand at all. It's not how much _water_ is in there, it's how _soft_ the paper has become!' Dave (later, when leaving): Thank you very much. I've learned a lot today. Matsuzaki-san: I don't know about that ... Maybe next time ... *** Do you understand what I'm trying to point out? We constantly talk about _water_, and how moist the paper is, but that is not the real point. Water is simply the _tool_ by which the effect we need is arrived at; the paper must be properly _softened_ before smooth and deep colour can be printed on it. It took me many years to realize this. I just didn't hear what people were telling me - they said 'soft', but I only heard 'moist'. Of course the two things are related: not enough H2O in there and the paper remains hard - too much and you have a soggy mess. But try not to think too much about the water itself; try and look beyond that to the result - a sheet of paper soft and supple, not too limp, ready to be laid gently onto the wood surface to receive the pigment. When you get it just right, it is an absolutely sensuous feeling. I am gradually getting better at this. It used to be that I would _finally_ get the paper to this state just about at the end of the multi-colour process. Recently I am having more success at having it that way right from the beginning. Last night I prepared the paper for my current print, staring out the window at the sky for a while, 'feeling' the air in the room, and then brushing on what I felt would be the correct amount of water for this particular batch of paper on this particular day. This morning I re-stacked the pile of sheets, to let them 'creep' together and balance properly. Tonight, when I open the package of paper to start printing the key block, I know what I will find ... Mmmmmm! ********** ********** ********** Next week - TBA ... These 'One-point' lessons are being collected into a section in the [Baren] Encyclopedia of Woodblock Printmaking. http://www.woodblock.com/encyclopedia/updates.html Contributions from experienced printmakers for future 'One-pointers' are eagerly solicited. ------------------------------ From: Steiner Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 15:24:09 +0900 Subject: [Baren 2012] to St. Louis and back from Richard Steiner/Kyoto Dave (B) wrote (Baren 1962) about the super large print made for the St. Louis Worlds Fair in 1904. The blocks were found, in St. Louis I think, sent back to Kyoto and reprinted a few years ago in a make-shife studio on the second floor of a print dealer's shop. I witnessed some of that process, tho I had no part in it. The blocks were in terrible condition, cracked and warped, making reprinting a real challenge. If I remember correctly, one or some of the blocks are missing, but it doesn't make much difference to the overall composition. Marco Flavio wrote (Baren 1973) that he would like to join BarenForum. Since we all can read his messages, doesn't that mean he is a member already? Welcome, Marco. Dave (S) wrote (Baren 1992) about his method of printing. The most important point he mentioned, I feel, is the necessity for careful planning before you begin to carve, much less print. This couldn't be stressed enough by Toshi Yoshida. Working with the sketch(es), analysing the colors and number of blocks, the printing order and so much more is crucial to producing a satisfactory print. I constantly teach that, the first stage, the creative drawing of the image, its reworking, redrawing, throwing away and starting again, ALL the artistic activities, are necessary and have nothing to so with craftsmanship, everything to do with art. Once you have an image you like, that you want to make into a woodblock print, the artist (in you) gets up and leaves the room, and the artisan, craftsman, comes in and goes to work, which includes the introduction of no new material or elements. In Kyoto and Tokyo, there are still plenty of pro carvers and printers left. If you were to hire one of them to do a piece for you, you wouldn't want them to look at your design, and decide that it should be changed here or there. The same attitude applies when you yourself are both artist and artisan. Jumping into a project, beginning to carve, then realizing that you really want something moved over to the left a little, something else removed altogether, something more added over there, only wastes your time and your money, since you have to throw away that piece of wood and grab another in order to finish the piece. Spontaneity is a wonderful thing, and I feel that it ought to exist right where it is most at home, with a pencil in one hand, perhaps an eraser in the other and a white sheet of paper before you. This was Andrew Wyeth's approach, and I have adopted it whole cloth. For woodblock printmakers especially, this seems to be the best way, given the costs we run up against in our work, like the paper, wood and pigments. What do other Barenettes think about this? There must be a dozen approaches to the problem of getting our ideas out and onto paper. Let's hear some other's methods. Steiner/Kyoto ------------------------------ From: Steiner Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 15:24:13 +0900 Subject: [Baren 2013] wet paper from Richard Steiner/Kyoto Marco asked (Baren 1998) how to keep the paper between printings. First, Marco, you really ought to mix up ALL your colors before you even begin to print. Moisten a few sheets only and start to proof your colors and boards. After seeing the results, judging the colors, the registration, the composition even, then make any changes necessary and go for the real prints. Moisten the whole batch of paper, print one color at a time, usually the lightest first, and work until you have finished. If you have to take a short break, just leave the paper moist, between newsprint or whatever you use. If you have to take a long break, say a few days or more, dry the whole batch of papers. Remoistening them later will have no affect whatsoever on the colors; they will not bleed or transfer. You can even moisten the paper on the printing side. Letting the paper dry, then remoistening it will bring it back to the size it was during the first printing. If you intent to keep the paper wet for an extended period of time, use a mold retardent mixed in with your moistening water. You certainly do not have to print all the colors at one sitting, tho you ought to. If you are doing a small edition of a print with only a few colors, do it all at one time. If you are printing a huge edition, and have 40 colors, use formaldehyde or other retardent and keep everything wet for the whole process, or dry between colors and remoisten later. Steiner/Kyoto ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V5 #334 ***************************