[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest              Monday, 9 November 1998      Volume 05 : Number 337

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From: Shimizu <shimizu@mail1.nai.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 09:05:29 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2029] Introduction 

From: "Shimizu, Lynita" <shimizu@ct1.nai.net>

Hi! I'm a new member so bear with me as I take my initiation rites and
introduce myself:

Originally from Pennsylvania (this is the ancient history part), I was a
fine arts major in college and studied Chinese painting and watercolor
at the Chinese University of Hong Kong. My watercolors started looking
like they should be woodblocks so in '74, I wandered to Japan in search
of a teacher. I  was fortunate to study for one year in Kyoto with
Tomikichiro Tokuriki and from that time on, I knew I had met my
challenge.  In the late seventies,  I studied at Asahi Culture Center in
Tokyo with Sho Kidokoro and Yoshisuke Funasaka. For the past eighteen
years I've been living in the US.  Being greatly distracted by raising
three boys (and a Japanese husband), I've only managed to produce
several prints each year. We recently moved to the woods of northeastern
Connecticut where at last, when I am not outside taming the wilderness,
I have time to devote to woodblock printing.

My techniques are basically attempts at the traditional, using water
based paint to print on torinoko paper with a baren. I think most of my
woodblock "education" was received through osmosis, as my Japanese
language ability left much room for improvement and my teachers always
seemed to think I understood more than I actually did.  I am extremely
guilty of wasting wood and paper by getting carried away with
spontaneity (can't resist playing with those color changes), so my new
goal is to heed Richard's advice to concentrate on planning and then
stick with the plan.

Just a comment on using the computer as part of the preparation
process.  Personally, beyond the final image, I am drawn to mokuhanga
because one doesn't rely on machinery --- I'd much rather hold a baren
than a printing press, a pencil than a keyboard.   For me, the tactile
element is an essential part of the creative process.

Anyway, I am thrilled to be able to join this group.  It is great to
have English-speaking woodblock enthusiasts to talk with, and I will be
most grateful for your help.

Lynita Shimizu

------------------------------

From: mkrieger@mb.sympatico.ca
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 08:19:25 -0600
Subject: [Baren 2030] planning and developing images 

from Mary Krieger/Winnipeg

Richard invited others to comment on their working methods especially in
planning and developing the image.

(Please note: I use oil base ink applied with a roller and print using a
press)

I begin the image by drawing directly on the prepared block with brush
and sumi ink. I have a subject in mind but the specific composition is
worked out with the grain pattern of the actual block. I spend some time
looking and thinking before beginning to cut to make sure that the
overall composition is strong enough (particularly the balance between
cut and uncut areas). I may use chalk and more sumi ink to revise the
image further before cutting.

I cut the image using a variety of gouges, using a knife to clean up
details. I may roll a little ink on the surface of the block to see how
the work is progressing. When I feel it is pretty much done, I will take
a proof. This is my chance to see what the printed image actually looks
like. Looking at the block there is less contrast between the inked and
cut wood than between the ink and the paper. This may require adjustment
of the block before further printing.

I developed this method of working when making black and white work. To
adapt it to colour work, I use a reduction method combined with blended
colours on The roller. 

I begin the same way by drawing directly on the block but I immediately
begin to plan in my head the colours I will use. I decide which will be
my predominant colours for sky and land and divide the block (mentally)
into white areas, light areas and dark areas.

I cut the areas that will remain white then mix and print the first
blended colour. I have to make sure I print enough of this initial run
to allow for several trial proofs as well as the edition and artists and
studio proofs. Reduction printing takes the same block and recuts it to
create the second colour. I cannot go back and print more.

I repeat the process once or twice more, recutting and mixing colour
then printing. If I come to a point where the block that I have been
reducing no longer has wood where I now decide that I need colour, I
take a second block and cut what I need. I have also used blocks that
were part of a previous print to add colour or texture to a new one. 

At each step of the process, I can and do adjust the image. I don't
begin with a clear vision and then craft the print to match it. My
imagery and working method have developed together created both by the
materials and tools I have easy access to and my strengths and
weaknesses as an artist. I always found it difficult to make that switch
between craft and art that Richard mentions. I think if I had the
opportunity to work with printers I would have started out as one of
those intensely irritating people who keeps changing their mind. This
working method lets me change my mind as often as required to produce
the image I am looking for.

Mary Krieger
http://www.mts.net/~mkrieger

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From: Gary Luedtke <GLuedtke@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:54:31 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2031] Introduction 

Welcome to Baren, Lynita.   Aside from Graham, who steps out of the woods
on the opposite side of the continent from you occasionally to complain
about modern techniques, you'll find us a pretty congenial group.   Graham
is a trapper actually, so you've got to be careful.   He tells you he's
going away to work on some important project, but then goes and ducks into
the bushes and waits to ambush you when you start talking about computers
in his absence.

I hope you will send Dave some samples of your work and join the Baren
Gallery.   

Dave,  would it be an infraction of the rules to put out a list of current
Baren members?   I know others have joined recently, but I'm a little vague
on who is still here.    If they don't pop up and say something, we don't
know if they're still out there.   Just a thought.  Might also be nice for
the new members.

Again,  welcome, Lynita!

Gary

------------------------------

From: Gary Luedtke <GLuedtke@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:58:36 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2032] Re: to St. Louis and back 

>Did you PC'er know about this......<
Graham, you'll have to explain this one a little more,

Gary

------------------------------

From: Gary Luedtke <GLuedtke@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:28:46 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2033] The computer issue is back 

Graham wrote,
>Say that is quite something.......I do all this without a computer.....
>and I use my Human skills to do any size I want.

Graham, I think you're reading between the lines, and not the lines
themselves.   You have a knack for mis-reading me.   

>Where does it say that time is an issue with Fine Art.
>I'm only aware of time being a factor with Commercial Art.

In that case Graham, you are obviously _not_ under time pressure to get
your upcoming museum exhibits completed, unless of course we are to
consider you a "commercial artist".

Dave, for one, turns out a print every month to his subscribers, which
means he has a time-table to follow.   Most people do.   If you are
surviving off of your art, you have a timetable to follow everytime the 
refrigerator starts emptying out, or the bills need to be paid.   Does that
make what you do "commercial art"?    

Even though I do not have to survive off of my art, as I have an
eight-hour-a-day full-time job,  I also have family to spend time with,
house repairs and maintenance to keep up with, house chores to do, etc. 
This all takes time, and that means that the time I have left to apply to
my art is very limited.  In order to maximize that time,  I have found the
computer to be a wonderful tool.  No, it does not negate the need to learn
to draw, or to study composition and color, and all of the other studies
that go along with it.  It just means that I can more effectively use my
time toward my goal of producing art that I like.  If this makes me a
"commercial artist", I don't care.   I am happy with what _I_ do no matter
what _you_ may call it.   

Gary

------------------------------

From: Sheryl Coppenger <sheryl@SEAS.GWU.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:26:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Baren 2034] Re: The computer issue is back 

> Say that is quite something.......I do all this without a computer.....
> and I use my Human skills to do any size I want.

Like Graham, I prefer to do things by hand.  Part of that is because my
"day job" is with computers and I don't want to sit in front of the
computer all the time, and part is because doing things on the computer
is too second hand for my taste, and part is because divorcing the image
from the technique doesn't make any sense for me.  I enjoy the sensuality
and physicality of traditional media.  I also enjoy the way that different
media force different decisions in rendering.  So I don't disapprove of using
the computer, but IMNSHO people who do that are missing out on the best
part of printmaking.

Of course, I made the last statement from the point of view of being
a newbie at woodblock prints.  It's fortunate that I admire the 
expressionist schools, because I'm not very good yet at cutting the
wood. :-)  I really enjoy the process on lithography and linoleum, and
sometimes intaglio, but woodcut and wood engraving have been pretty
frustrating so far.  Part of that may be due to sharing tools in class.
I bought a set of woodcarving tools and an X-acto carving set recently
and on Friday I was given a gift of some burins and a half dozen good
sharpening stones by a local artist who is going into retirement.  I
think she was using the burins for copper engraving rather than wood
(I received about 50 lbs of copper and zinc plates along with it).  I
don't know if it hurts to use the same burins on both, but I definitely
can use the sharpening stones (right after I stock up on bandaids again).

A lot of Western artists these days do "collaborative printing".  I went
to a lecture by Red Grooms a couple of years ago in which he showed slides
of several series he had done in collaboration with different printers.
Each collaboration had a very different look, some boldly colored and some
intentionally very pastel with a different palette, and I assume it would not
be that way in the Japanese tradition. (Dave?)  In the Western collaborative
relationship, it seems that the personality and the taste of the printer
are expected to have a significant effect on the final outcome.  I don't
think this was the case before WWII.  It seems to have sprung out of
the Tamarind Institute and other big art print houses since the 60s. The
Tamarind Institute has year-long courses and makes no bones about the
purpose of them being to train collaborative printers rather than artists.
Red Grooms goes in and draws on the plates himself, but doesn't do any
of the printing and doesn't really seem to know anything about the process
judging by his answers to questions after the lecture.

> I once read that every major newspaper on the N American continent uses a
> Mac because of it graphics capabilities.
> You may be missing out on something here Gary.

I've looked through "The Artists' and Graphic Designers' Market" and most
of the ads specify that people doing work for them must use one of a 
handful of packages on a Mac.  The graphic design classes of the local
universities all have Macs.  No doubt that Mac has control of the market.
However, I think part of that is historical -- the Mac had graphic
capabilities early and was plug-and-play (as opposed to the "plug-and-pray"
that characterized PCs) and so much easier for non-geeks to deal with.
For a long time the output formats were not compatible between Mac and PC
and this may still be somewhat true.  Most places are going to try and
standardize on one platform rather than try to invest in dealing with both.
But with the decline of Apple over the past few years most software
development companies have moved over to the PC platform in order to 
protect themselves.  For someone who doesn't plan to interact with design 
houses I doubt there is any drawback to using a PC platform rather than Mac.  
 
> ps.  for the newbies.....please develop your drawing skill, composition
> knowledge, and colour senses and you won't need to bother with a computer.

I would go so far as to say that using a computer without having developed
these things means that no time will be saved and the product will not
be very good.  The computer is a good tool for people who already have
skills.  It does not take the place of them.  Some of the really horrific
web pages out there show that you can't just put a computer in someone's
hands and make him an artist/designer.

Sheryl Coppenger  

------------------------------

From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:46:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 2035] The computer is back 

Dear Gary.

You and I may have to agree to disagree......

I am saying the approach you put forth about time is a factor with
Commerial Art.
(I am not saying what you are doing is commercial art)  .....The client
pays and speed is important.  Not so with Fine Art......one can take one
day or one year to create a piece.  It is great your full time job offers
you the need finances.

>I have an eight-hour-a-day full-time job,
> I also have family to spend time with, house repairs and
>maintenance to keep up with, house chores to do, etc.

I have been there and done that.....Raised three children two dogs had a
morgage and an 8 hour day job. I did my art as time allowed and always
reached for those skill plateaus of drawing in a slow and gradual way.

When the kids were 12 and 15 years and I was 42 years old I went full time
as an artist. I went from  $30,000 a year down to $6 to 9 thousand for many
many years.
We survived but it wasn't easy nor is it yet.

>This all takes time, and that means that the time I have left to apply to
>my art is very limited.  In order to maximize that time,

Why is faster important.......do less and do gooder......is my motto.

To me the computer is a short gain solution.

Regards,

Graham

------------------------------

From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:50:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 2036] Re: to St. Louis and back 

>Graham, you'll have to explain this one a little more,
>>Did you PC'er know about this......<

You used the ....  pc in you post, so you should be able to ......
Well let me spell it out for you 

if the only Mac you have comes from an orchard....
then there is those others they call PC
which you I guess own......thus PC'ers

God I hate explaining jokes.

Graham

------------------------------

From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:01:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 2037] Re: Introduction 

Lynita Shimizu> Wrote....
>I'd much rather hold a baren
>than a printing press, a pencil than a keyboard.   For me, the tactile
>element is an essential part of the creative process.

"Tactile element' .... are you there Gary?

You and I will get along just fine Lynita.....

>Anyway, I am thrilled to be able to join this group.  It is great to
>have English-speaking woodblock enthusiasts to talk with, and I will be
>most grateful for your help.

Welcome aboard.....
Look forward to your inputs and thoughts.

Graham

Oh and by the way watch out for Ray.

------------------------------

From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:01:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 2038] Re: Introduction 

Gary wrote....
>Graham is a trapper actually, so you've got to be careful.   He tells you he's
>going away to work on some important project, but then goes and ducks into
>the bushes and waits to ambush you when you start talking about computers
>in his absence.

You keep getting it all wrong Gary

I'm not going away.
I'm not a trapper.
I'm not an ambusher
I'm never absent.

I do express the short falls of computer generated art.
I had hoped you would take the input as an education.

I can see I have failed so will close the subject never to return.

Well maybe........

Graham

------------------------------

From: Gary Luedtke <GLuedtke@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:45:17 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2039] Re: to St. Louis and back 

"God I hate explaining jokes."

Kinda takes the humor out of it doesn't it?   Not that I saw any in it to
begin with.   I think, Graham, if you go back and re-read your messages
before you send them, to add crucial letters to words you might have
overlooked in your haste to load and fire, they would be more
understandable so I wouldn't have to ask you what in the name of peanut
butter and jelly you're talking about.   (Sorry, Dave, didn't mean to bring
up your lunch!)

Graham, I think for you, your way is fine.   It is a good way, and I've got
no criticism for it.   There are other ways to go, however, that may also
lead to satisfactory conclusions.   If we fail, it's no loss but our own.

If we succeed, great.   The object is to produce something worth producing,
an end result we're proud of.   You are proud of your work, and
understandably so.    I hope to produce something I can be proud of also,
but in my own way.   One of the wonders of art is that so many different
tools can be used to achieve so many varied but beautiful effects.   You
use a different set of tools, that's all.   If your principals are correct,
and your work epitomizes them, you should be successful.  In the end,
people must like your art enough to buy it.   If not, it is no more than a
passionate hobby or pastime, and you must look elsewhere for a living.  

I commend you for sticking with it through all of your hard times, and
finally it appears a larger success is on the horizon for you, deservedly
so.    Go your way in peace.

 Back to my computer!

Gary

------------------------------

From: Gary Luedtke <GLuedtke@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:57:35 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2040] Re: Introduction 

"Tactile element' .... are you there Gary?"

I'm here, Graham, couldn't agree more.    Covered that a long time ago, no
need to go back.

Gary

------------------------------

From: Gayle Wohlken <blueman@pantek.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 16:23:02 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2041] Re: Baren Digest V5 #335 

Dave said:

> I'll very much look forward to hearing what Gayle, Jeanne,
> and the other [Baren] members have to say about this. Are we 'good' for
> each other?  Or ...

We are good for each other, Dave, but we can scare each other too.
I've learned much more about the craft part of the process than I
ever dreamed possible.  Having  many people and their different
ways come together in a forum like this is such an opportunity for
learning.  The forthcoming Print Exchange, however, suddenly makes
 us look at our own stuff and say, "Oh God, what if this isn't good
enough 
for the really skilled carvers."  Suddenly, we're on display and I was
thinking how you, Dave, sometimes feel among your fellows there in
Japan--the new guy (though now finding acceptance) among the old
masters.  Then here I am looking at my style and saying
to myself, will this pass those Baren eyes of scrutiny?  

I feel somewhat assured, however, since your last post that:
> what we _want_ from you is an 'ordinary' Gayle Wohlken print!

And if that's so, then you'll surely have it. 

Gayle Wohlken

------------------------------

From: Steiner <steiner@mbox.kyoto-inet.or.jp>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:42:13 +0900
Subject: [Baren 2042] Again, Tokuriki 

Richard Steiner/Kyoto

Welcome to Lynita Shimizu, whose name suggests Japanese roots but whose
japanese inability implies having been born and raised in the States, 
a Nisei or even Sansei, second or even third generation Japanese.  And
you, like SO many others, have studied under the great Tokuriki.  It is
a pity we didn't meet while you were in town.  

I called Tokuriki last week about KIWA (Kyoto International Woodblock
Asso.) and learned that, while still alive, his family is shielding him
from visitors, even old friends like myself.  In particular, his wife,
who has always been a particular woman, bars entry to him.  He is in
his mid-90s, and his legs are weak, but when I saw him last year, he
was painting away happily, smiling as he always does, in great spirits.
 It is, however, so typical of "loving" children to "protect" their
elderly parents from the public, all in the name of letting them have
some rest.  More is the pity for Old Tokuriki, then, because he loved
to be with people, to talk and learn new things and give away
techniques, tools, advice.  Anyway, that is the latest news on your
teacher, Lynita.

Thanks Mary, for you sharing with us (Baren 2030) your
working techniques.  I have one question.  You mentioned that
occasionally you do work with two blocks;  how do you register the two?
In other words, how do you assure yourself that the colors will line up
with each other?  The hanga traditionalists use, among several others,
the kento or carved key marks in the corners of their blocks to assure
(near) perfect registration. Working with a press, I can't imagine how
you do the keying.  Your way seems to be an ideal mixing of spontaneity
and planning, however.  Your attitide towards the whole business I,
myself, like a lot.

Steiner/Kyoto

------------------------------

From: Steiner <steiner@mbox.kyoto-inet.or.jp>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:42:10 +0900
Subject: [Baren 2043] pencil and pixel 

from Richard Steiner/Kyoto

Gary wrote (Baren 2014) about his methods of working up a
design for a print.  He can possibly be said to be on the cutting (?)
edge of art creation as it will be pursued actively during the
following century. There is a printmaker hereabouts, Jim Ulrich, who
uses his computer for the total preparation of his prints; pencil never
touches his hand.  His prints are incredible feats of technique,
especially when he uses gold leaf (which is rather cheap here in
Japan). I have invited him to join BarenForum, but he is basically shy,
so I doubt we'll be hearing from him.  More's the pity;  a true
technician.

Gayle moaned (Baren 2016) over splits in her lines. It
isn't so clear what you mean, Gayle, by splits;  the lines cracked
across their lengths?, or diagonally across the lines?  If I have a
design where the lines are pretty much running all in the same
direction, I will saw my block for those lines with the grain running
in the same direction.  If there are lines in the design running both
ways, I will saw two boards, with and opposite the grain, (like they
did in the Ukiyo-e days, and which Dave ((B)) talk about a little while
back).  Have you encountered these splits before, Gayle?  Could it be
the particular piece of wood you are presently working with?  Wood gets
old, and then has a tendency to crack.  Was you block taken from an
especially old piece of timber?

Anyway, please don't worry about Quality of Work.  We want to see YOUR
work regardless of little splits, especially, as you wrote, they are OK
given your style.

Jeanne, here is a technique to try when carving fine,
narrow lines, which you GGGRRRed about (Baren 2017).  After the image
has been transferred to the block, wipe a thin layer of  Elmer's Glue
over the lines.  Let it dry, which shouldn't take much time, then
carve. The glue hardens the wood, making the carving more sure.  This
is a variation on the technique the Edo boys used, minus their super
thin, strong hand-made washi paper.  I followed that method for years,
until I was told that the paper was not really necessary, only the
glue.  I can carve the finest of lines in the softest of wood without
any loss by using this time-honored way.  Try it.

Graham (Baren 2026) liked what I wrote.  I could have
written that, unlike Gary and my friend mentioned above, Jim Ulrich, I
would never think of using a computer to draw a design for a print.  I
love the computer, my Mac, but I love my hands even more, and when they
hold a pencil over an empty sheet of paper, there is some kind of love
in the making, which Graham understands very, very well.  To draw is
such a fantastic sensation.  That black pencil line comes from MY hand,
directly.  Yes, I can understand the thrill of moving the mouse around
and watching lines jump out and revolve and disappear only to reappear
again in a different color, instantly (which, by the way, is too fast
for me).  Nevertheless, between my creative mind and my hand, there is
no object to tweak or twist or forgive or adapt myself to.  I become
the black pencil line on the paper;  it is hard for me to love my Mac
and its mouse in the same way, (especially when the damn thing crashes
and I have lost everything;  when the pencil lead breaks, resharpening
is almost a welcomed pause from the creating sweat).

Enough of this 21st C. heresy. I can smell the stake beginning to
burn.

Dave (the B) mentioned last week about the pro-carvers and printers in
the Tokyo area, adding that he knew nothing of the Kyoto group. 
Naturally, I do, and will pass this information along in a couple days.

Back to the boards.

Steiner/Kyoto

------------------------------

From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 08:21:51 +0900
Subject: [Baren 2044] Re: Introduction 

Gary wrote:

> Dave,  would it be an infraction of the rules to put out a list of current
> Baren members?   I know others have joined recently, but I'm a little vague
> on who is still here.    If they don't pop up and say something, we don't
> know if they're still out there.   Just a thought.  Might also be nice for
> the new members.

I must confess that I too am now sometimes confused when postings come
in.  Is this a _new_ member?  Have they made postings before?  I find
myself going back to check the members' list ...

I _would_ like to stick to the policy of keeping the real list under
wraps though.  The primary reason for this is to protect members' email
addresses.  Although many of you may not care who sees your address,
quite a number of people are extremely sensitive to this, and I have
heard from correspondents that this is the reason that they do not make
postings to internet groups such as [Baren].

But I think that if I (1) trim off the address portion, and (2) omit the
names of those members who only lurk, and do not post publicly, I see no
reason not to put a convenient list here ...

Note: There is no meaning to the order here.  The server basically
stores them in the order in which they came in, but whenever there is an
adjustment to somebody's address, their position in the list is
disturbed; 'digest' subscribers also come 'lower down' ...

There are 44 names.  The actual membership list currently has 58 entries
...

Dave Bull
Graham Scholes
John Amoss
Gary Luedke
Ray Esposito
Keith Elwell-Gavins
Matthew.W.Brown
Don Furst
Carolyn Ramsey
Phil Bivins
Bill Ritchie
Patsy Wilson
David Stones
Naresh Sampat
Sheryl Coppenger
Elizabeth Atwood
Jeanne Chase
Mary Dornenburg
Hideshi Yoshida
Roxanne Sexauer
Elisa Flynn
Jack Reisland
Andrea Rich
Ray Hudson
Haydee Landing
Dean Brink
Sarah Hauser
Wanda Robertson
Julio Rodriguez
Richard Steiner
Chris Bremmer
Marco Flavio
Angela Oates
Lynita Shimizu
Bill Mixon
Donna Fenstermaker
Jean Eger
Karla Hackenmiller
Gayle Wohlken
Jim Mundie
Roger A. Ball
April Vollmer
Mary Krieger
Kim Kaschimer Medina

Interesting also, to see that the list is almost perfectly balanced between
men and women ...

------------------------------

End of Baren Digest V5 #337
***************************