[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Baren Digest Monday, 23 November 1998 Volume 05 : Number 352 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gayle Wohlken Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 10:55:21 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2175] Re: Baren Digest V5 #351 Has everyone on Baren had a chance to go to http://www.woodblock.com/encyclopedia/updates.html What a treat to hear all those words in Dave's list of Japanese woodblock printmaking terminology. The words were pronounced slow enough it was possible for me to say each word after Sadako Ishizaki pronounced it. This will be a great way to learn these words, Dave and Sadako. Thank you very much! Dave, this is how I imagine kitakata is pronounced. Would you let us know if this is right? Keeta-kahta (the "t" would be pronounced by putting your tongue near the place westerner's would for pronouncing "th" except you pronounce a "t" instead which kind of softens it. * * * * Regarding > http://www.woodblock.com/surimono/process.html Dave, you even inlay boxwood into the cherry in order to do the calligraphy on your print! Your descriptions and photos on the process are extremely well pre- sented. You make it look easy, but we know it's not! I'm sure some of the woodworkers like Julio and Matt can greatly appreciate what you do. People like me just aren't in the same ballpark with you guys. :-D So, I'm aking--the inlay can't be within the actual pictorial part of the image because white lines would show around it? * * * Nice prints at the ban-ban show. Thanks, Dave. Gayle Wohlken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:16:24 -0600 Subject: [Baren 2176] Mis-sent posting ... ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:44:28 -0600 Subject: [Baren 2177] Re: -print exchange reply I don't know French......does 'Qu'est que c'est?' translate to: a- What is this ? b- What do you mean by this ? c- What do you think this is ? d- What's the meaning of this ? Help me out. Thanks. JULIO ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:13:01 +0900 Subject: [Baren 2178] Re: Boxing with language Gayle wrote: > Dave, this is how I imagine kitakata is pronounced. > Would you let us know if this is right? > > Keeta-kahta I think you've got the _sounds_ correct; just remember to speak the word with _no_ syllabic emphasis at all - four even syllables ... *** > Dave, you even inlay boxwood into the cherry in order > to do the calligraphy on your print! Don't get the idea that I do this with all the poets' prints. They are just fine on the cherry, because of the large scale of the characters. But for that 'dinky' writing on this new print, box is better. > the inlay can't be within the actual > pictorial part of the image because white lines would > show around it? Actually - no problem at all. The inlay is very _visible_ because of the colour, but if you close your eyes, you can't tell where it is. In the old days, it was common for just the heads or faces of prints to be done with inlay like this, and in fact I'm going to give that a try with the second print in next year's series. *** I made a note here last week about a 'problem' I have on which I needed feedback: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~xs3d-bull/hyaku-nin-isshu/set10/print_10-9/display_print_10-9.html For those of you who didn't follow the link, the question was simply whether or not to discard the 'seconds', those prints that didn't come out good enough, being perhaps a bit mis-registered, etc. On the face of it, this seems like a simple point - just trash the ones that aren't good enough, and keep the ones that _are_. But I feel a bit unsettled by the inherent dishonesty of that view; if we do that, then all that remains are our _best_ efforts, and this does not represent the 'real' ourselves. Think of an athlete for example. They have good games and bad games. They can't 'erase' the bad games, leaving just the goodies. We are thus left with a complete 'all-round' picture of that person. Am I making something out of nothing? What do you think about this? Dave P.S. Everybody ready for the major holiday later this week? And I _don't_ mean Thanksgiving! ------------------------------ From: "Fatima Ferreira" Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 00:20:15 -0000 Subject: [Baren 2179] Re: Various ... Dave, first, I want to thank you very much again for the informations about Yamada Shokai's supplies. this weekend, here in Lisbon, has been held a Japanese Culture Festival. It was shown there a lot of japanese art and crafts activities and in the middle of all the sort of artworks there was a table where several beautifull japanese ladies were showing calligraphy art to us. everybody knows so simply beautifull it is, I love it, and I wonder if anyone of you could know about good web sites for learning more about this art ? I would like to put some questions about the seals (I don't know if I may call that a seal ? the calligraphy artist signature ? and the japanese name for that ?) first, why are they always red ? and who decide about its design and who make those seals, the artists themselves ? in what type of wood ? what they mean, just a symbol or is it the artist name ? is there any rules for that ? is it possible to have two similar seals ? I must say that I would like to have my own seal to sign my prints, and that I began seriously thinking about doing it now, but I surely would like to do it the propper way and the japanese way. Where may I find more informations on that ? and what do you all think about it ? I know that more important than the seal is the beautifull calligraphy art. I ask one of the ladies to write something to me and I can't stop looking at it, so beautifull it is. I've seen Dave's surimono page, I found it very clear, usefull and beautifull and at the example shown there's also a poem ? so I think these questions may fit in this forum. Thank you everyone Fatima ------------------------------ From: Gary Luedtke Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 19:52:29 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2180] Re: Boxing with language Dave, On your philosophical question you suggested the parallel of an athlete not being able to erase his bad scores, that your mistakes are part of the truth of your work. Look at it another way. If your paper maker botches a job, should he put it in with your regular order of paper stock, because it was part of his entire output and it's only truthful to sell it along with his better paper? What if your block maker splits a board? Should he pass it on to you because, those things happen? I don't think so. You want the best quality from them, don't you? You know there must be goofs in every artist's or artisan's work, but you don't want them passed on to you, do you? Why pass yours on to posterity? If you have a chance to snatch it up and toss it out, go ahead. There will be plenty that passes by under your approving glance now, that ten years from now you'd throw out if you had the chance. There's tons of mediocre work out there vying for public attention, why put your goofs up there with them? If you want to keep them for your own retrospection, fine, it's always humbling to look back to your earlier work, just no need to pass them out as the truth of your career. That's my opinion. Fire away! Gary ------------------------------ From: Gary Luedtke Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:00:47 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2181] Re: Various ... Fatima, There is a calligraphy site at: < http://www.takase.com> which you may find interesting. As for your other questions, I shall have to defer to those more knowledgeable. Gary Luedtke Kansas City ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 21:40:31 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2182] Erroneous posting deleted ... ------------------------------ From: Bill Ritchie Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:22:43 -0800 Subject: [Baren 2183] Re: Boxing with language David Bull wrote: >I made a note here last week about a 'problem' I have on which I needed >feedback: One time I was printing an etching that had relief rolled rainbow-style colors across the sky. I think I was trying for about 25 or 30 for the edition. I discovered something about myself that might be true of other people, also. I found that my critical eye got sharper and sharper. I deduced I could never achieve a level where I would be satisfied, because the "eye" that examined each print was satisfied, but when given the next one--given that my skill seemed to be higher with each printing--the eye would look back and say, "Well, now that I look back on the previous one, it's not as good as I thunk." The prints got better and better. I was going crazy! I decided to just do the best I could and not compare them right away, when my eye was so acutely aware of everything that happened when I was wiping the plate and rolling the colors on. So I let a week or two pass, and told myself, "Just keep driving--" Then I was able to sign off on the edition. I learned something that might be useful to other people. One of my teachers, much older and wiser than I, said, "I am not a machine!" when I asked him about similitude in editions. (His name is Rolf Nesch, Norway). - - Bill Inventor Bill H. Ritchie, Jr. ------------------------------ From: Jean Eger Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:08:23 -0800 Subject: [Baren 2184] Re: Baren Digest V5 #351 Dave, congratulations on your announcement of the Surimono editions. Also, I really like your page layout on http://www.woodblock.com/surimono/history.html It's wonderful to hear about Graham and Andrea selling prints online. I also like to see the progress of some of the exchange prints. I might have something to show in a couple of weeks. I have been working on a computer posterization of a photo I took. The drawing is on the block. Now I need the courage to start cutting. It seemed appropriate to use computer technology in the creation of my computer pal exchange print. It won't look like a photo, I garantee that. Jean Eger ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:15:48 -0800 Subject: [Baren 2185] Re: -print exchange reply >I don't know French......does 'Qu'est que c'est?' translate to: >a- What is this ? >b- What do you mean by this ? >c- What do you think this is ? >d- What's the meaning of this ? What is it.... or What is this Sorry Julio ...thought you would know. Graham ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:36:38 -0800 Subject: [Baren 2186] Re: Boxing with language Dave wrote: > ...the question was simply > whether or not to discard the 'seconds', those prints that didn't come > out good enough, being perhaps a bit mis-registered, etc. Dave, my question is why you make a distinction between your "seconds" that are not up to your standards, and other prints that have been spoiled during printing with smeared ink or mold spots, etc. I assume you discarded those during printing. If you did not save those for posterity, why these? And the social conciousness that you refer to, does it really still exist in Japan? Have you encountered this idea from other craftsmen that you know? It certainly is not a part of the Western art society. Purhaps you have to choose for the social conciousness to which you most closely identify. By the way, I envy you for even having the opportunity to discard your work that does not satisfy you. In my work, when a restoration job does not quite satisfy me, I can only start over again on the same piece, usually at considerable time and expense. Jack Reisland ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V5 #352 ***************************