[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Baren Digest Sunday, 13 December 1998 Volume 05 : Number 374 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don Furst Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:00:19 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2302] Re: Down with taxes, up with prints! Sheryl wrote: >I belong to a co-op where I sell my prints, and I have never heard of >such a requirement. Perhaps there's such a law in someplace like >California, Sheryl, Illinois passed stringent disclosure legislation about original prints several years ago. For a while, my Chicago gallery required the artist to fill out authenticity paperwork every time you sent them new prints. The form was much shorter than Federal income tax, but about as fun to do. I don't recall having to do the paper work in recent years, thankfully. I believe New York state also has disclosure rules about original prints. Don Furst ------------------------------ From: "Jeanne N. Chase" Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:33:25 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2303] Re: Baren Digest V5 #371 Jean; Thanks so much for the information. I really had not heard of the term e.v. for edition variables. I often vary my prints. I might add, Jean, that when I got my computer you were the first one to really get me interested in printmaking. I put your Web Page on my favorites and went to it often. Then I found Dave's page and have been a happy camper ever since. Happy Printing!!!! Jeanne ------------------------------ From: Jean Eger Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:55:47 -0800 Subject: [Baren 2304] Re: Baren Digest V5 #373 Hida Tool and Hardware sent their Christmas sale sheet. They have King Water stones, set of 4, plus nagura stone on sale for $80. (regularly $105.70.) The #1200 stone is all I need, thanks to Dave's encyclopedia entry. They also have the top of the top quality stone (they say) on sale for $680 (marked down from $850). It's a natural Honhyama stone, 3" x 1" x 8". They only have two in stock. They didn't say why this stone is worth so much money. Maybe it can be made into a bracelet. Hida Tool and Hardware 1333 San Pablo Avenue Berkeley, CA 94702 phone 1-800-443-5512 fax 1-888-284-7473 I don't make any money from this plug. Jean Eger ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 10:01:11 -0800 Subject: [Baren 2305] Re: Down with taxes, up with prints! I have expressed my opinions on this subject and have not had any response. Nor have I seen the post returned to me on the Baren... Have I neglected to pay my membership fees and have been chopped.... Graham ------------------------------ From: jimandkatemundie@juno.com (James G Mundie) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:30:42 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2306] Durer 50-51,53-55,66-69 Julio wrote: >I think I read somewhere that Durer never actually printed his own >work. He had expert printers do the actual printing. That's not entirely true. Often he employed other printers (and carvers for that matter) but there do exist certain prints and blocks which are widely regarded as being entirely produced by Durer's hand. In Durer's engravings especially, one finds clues in the extant copies to suggest that he himself was the printer. Durer seems to have been fully capable of a doing all the work, but I suspect he farmed it out when pressured by time or the desire to print a large number of prints. What I think is important now to remember about Durer's prints is that his wife sold these for a few coins a piece in the market square at Nuremburg and other towns. In such a way, a peasant could just as easily obtain a picture of the Virgin or a sea monster as could a wealthy burgher. Durer himself peddled his own prints or offered them as gifts to finance his journeys to Italy. After Durer's death, these prints continued to be popular and a source of income for his family and later publishers. >Does it matter (artistic value) then when the prints are created ? No, apart from that peculiar magic that comes from admiring a 'legitimate' print that the master himself may have held in his own hands. >Before or after his death ? Does the artist final approval (assuming he okay >the use of the original blocks) add that much more to the value ? Is an >original print taken from an original Durer block (like those reprinted in >the 1960's by a Chicago collector) worth less because it was not >signed by Durer? (actually Durer usually carved his initials in the block itself). It certainly matters to a museum! Remember, Julio, this business of 'signing' is a rather new phenomenon. For Durer, even including his monogram in the plate was a fairly new practice which he picked up from Martin Schoengauer and the Master E. S. (who is known as such because all we have are those initials to go by). At that time, leaving one's initials was considered a mark of bravado -- a declaration that here was the work of a master. >Some experts claim that the prints created in the 1960's from the original >blocks far exceeded in quality the originals pulled back in Durer's >time. What do you think ?????? Is a Durer printed in 1960 from original >plates still a "Durer" ? I find this assertion somewhat dubious. Those prints made in the sixties weren't taken from the actual blocks and plates but from new plates cast from the originals. That isn't what troubles me, but the fact that they are offering second generations of a block worn down by use. So, while one may get a nice 'clean' print from these cast blocks, the quality of the lines is nowhere near as sharp as would have been in the first thousand or so prints pulled from the original blocks. That being said, though, I certainly wouldn't hesitate to pick up one of these repro-restrikes in the Nuremburg Durer Museum giftshop for closer examination and admiration if reasonably priced. I can only assume that the master's intent still shines through these latter pressings. Mise le meas, James Mundie, Philadelphia USA ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 07:55:26 +0900 Subject: [Baren 2307] Odds 'n ends Jean wrote: > Hida Tool and Hardware sent their Christmas sale sheet. I've put this place into the Encyclopedia, but don't have any information on what they carry. Jean, do you know if they have anything other than sharpening stones that would be of interest to woodblock printmakers? *** Graham asked (re taxes): > I have expressed my opinions on this subject and have not had any response. > Nor have I seen the post returned to me on the Baren... Graham, way back in [Baren 2256] you wrote: > I easily relate to this situation. I have been > doing my thing for 23 years....that is putting bread on the table. In all > that time I have not paid income taxes.... Is _this_ the post you mean? If so, then I am sure that it was sent out to you. If you've sent something else more recently, then maybe you hit the wrong button, and sent it to someone directly, and not to the group ... > Have I neglected to pay my membership fees and have been chopped.... _Membership fees!?_ Say, that's an interesting idea ... *** Sheryl used another one of those abbreviations that I don't understand: Sheryl, I understood the 'IMO', and I think I get the 'IMHO' and 'IMNSHO', but you've got me again with 'IIRC' ... *** Carving on #100 is now all done. Paper gets wet tonight, and then printing starts on Tuesday evening. But printing won't be finished until a full week later, Tuesday morning the 22nd. My girls are coming back on the 21st, and they have asked me to hold back the final printing of the final impression until they get here ... Actually, that will be easy to do, as there are a lot of distractions coming up in the next week: as of right now, there are four newspaper interviews and three TV interviews scheduled for the next six days, and the phone is still ringing. After quite a slow start, the media interest in the upcoming exhibition has picked up. They all ignored my request in the press releases to 'please call early, as I will be very busy in late December'. Can't complain though, as boy do I need their help! Dave ------------------------------ From: "Fatima Ferreira" Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 00:44:14 -0000 Subject: [Baren 2308] need of Tama Art University's Printmaking Department email Hi : I wonder if anyone in this forum could give me the Tama Art University, Printmaking Department's email ? The two emails I have are: pmd@tamabi.ac.jp and timpt@tamabi.ac.jp , but I have trouble with these emails, because my mail return to me again. Thanks very much, Fatima Ferreira ------------------------------ ('Off-topic' post deleted ...) ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 17:25:28 -0800 Subject: [Baren 2310] Re: Odds 'n ends Dave wrote.... >Is _this_ the post you mean? If so, then I am sure that it was sent out to you. This one did come back Dave. I will send out a separate post with all the others that have not come back... can't let good humour go to waste especially when Gary is involved......(<: AND wrote.... >_Membership fees!?_ Say, that's an interesting idea ... Opps me and my big mouth.....Second to Ray's of coarse. AND wrote.... >as of right now, there are four newspaper >interviews and three TV interviews scheduled for the next six days, and >the phone is still ringing. After quite a slow start, the media >interest in the upcoming exhibition has picked up. Good Dave I was beginning to feel badly for you thinking that the media wasn't going to pick this up. >Can't complain though, as boy do I need their help! Tough business this art thing. It is so one on one and hard to turn heads. ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:52:52 +0900 Subject: [Baren 2311] Tama University address ... Fatima asked: > I wonder if anyone in this forum could give me the Tama Art University, > Printmaking Department's email ? I just checked with them, and is the current address for the printmaking department. The address was for the Mini-print Triennial, and that is now out of date. Dave ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 20:02:45 -0600 Subject: [Baren 2312] re: julio's post Thanks to James, Sheryl and others who replied to my post. I usually don't edition. I do plan to edition my exchange print as I think this is something very special ( the exchange that is, not my print !). So I will always want to remember when I look at the folio that " X/29" as a reminder of our first year together. When you see my print you will see what I mean. It probably won't appeal much to someone outside our discussion group. For those that have visited my web-site and were dissapointed at the lack of prints; I apologize. That site went up in a hurry and I wanted to put up some other stuff first. My scanner has been on loan recently and I am getting it back tonight. Please stay tune and I will send a post out when I get my prints loaded. Nothing to get excited about, so please don't expect much. Back to proofing...........have a nice weekend you all ! ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 18:44:22 -0800 Subject: [Baren 2313] Reissued posts Below are posts that I sent over the past few days and have not had them come back to me, so wondered if in fact they got there. If you have seen them I apologize. If you have not .....then enjoy. Graham Richard wrote..... >I thot that in The States every editioned print (and maybe uneditioned >one, too, for that matter) had to be accompanied with a paper stating all >the details of the print's production, date, the people involved in its >production (designer, printer, carver, etc.) and provenance to date. Am I >wrong here? No this is not the case. We are influenced by the States and I know that this is not a requirement. It is not required here in Canada......but for my 2=A2 ( $1.15 US) it should be. and wrote.... >In my opinion and others', too, I am sure, printing on different papers is >OK if the editioning is consistent, as I said above. To take the set of plates that have been printed on paper 'A' and then turn around and print it on paper 'B' slaps at unethical ...but in my books it is DOWN RIGHT GREED.... Why would any body want to do this.??? What possible motivation is there to warrent this??? and wrote.... >Changing pigments, however, is another matter. If you change colors, then >issue the prints as a new project, as a new edition, than you will be in >trouble, surely ethically if not legally. This is as greedy as the use of different kind of paper and my questions stands..... Why would any body want to do this.??? What possible motivation is there to warrent this??? Why not practice KISS (keep it simple studpid) and create a new image. Isn't that why we do art!!!! JULIO wrote.... >On the subject of editioning: I sure can agree with everything you have said..... I would like to suggest something re the following... >If I as an artist sell you a limited edition print for >$1000.00 and two years later you resell that print for $5000.00 and that >person turns around and resells it for $7500.00......am I the artist.... >being ripped off ? Not at all..... put a couple of each print away for yourself and you will benefit from the supply and demand game that causes prints to escalate in value. Win Win situation. KISS Ray wrote.... >It's like woodblock. You can only learn by doing. Gary Its just a joke...... Gees I'm hope Ray get out of town fast...... Ray wrote.... >Again, allow me to be perfectly clear. If I do this exact same thing, but >tell the public, "Mr. and Mrs. Collector, these are NOT original >prints. This is a work I liked so much, I have had reproductions made. >If you cannot afford my original prints, or if the monotype or edition is >sold out, this is an opportunity to have the work. Be careful with this approach. It is legitimate but it can have serious repercussions. ie. An extremely well know Canadian artist who did small editions of silkscreens selling for 1000.00 to 1400.00 went to reproduction posters selling for 30.00. He is having a difficult times selling the original prints and the prices have dropped at least 50% Why not practice KISS and create a new image. Isn't that why we do art!!!! Jeanne wrote: >Re; Jeans question about printing the same print in totally different colors >on a different paper. Does that not change the print? What if you went into >the print {the wood} and carved it a little differently, in different colors >on different paper? There is so much in the way of variables concerning >ethics in printmaking that sometimes it boggles the mind. I want to do the >right thing, anyone with concrete answers? It is really quite simple. Create NEW images and let the old ones live there lives in a normal and non greedy way. Why would you ever want to carve up an existing plate to prolong the life of some image or part of one? That would be like "Me Too Art." Graham ------------------------------ From: Gary Luedtke Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 22:54:48 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2314] Reissued posts As far as print documentation in the states, I am aware of stringent requirements in Hawaii, where I have been selling my prints. It's been a while since I filled out the forms, but such information as who the printer is if not the artist, who has possession of the blocks or plates, edition size, whether the print is posthumous, or in Graham's case, posthumorous, the address and phone number of the artist, etc. There was an art scandal there back some years where unofficial prints were being passed off as originals, I believe, causing the State to adopt tighter requirements in their sales information. Patrick, if he is still with us, would undoubtedly be better informed on this. Gary ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V5 #374 ***************************