[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest            Wednesday, 30 December 1998    Volume 05 : Number 391

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From: "Ray Esposito" <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:17:15 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2428] Re: 99 prints on the wall 

Jeanne wrote (re the exchange)
>So it would be nice if we knew exactly how many prints we should have now.
>I guess that news will be forthcoming.

Since everyone seems to be away for the holidays I will try to answer this.
As I understand it we are to do a minimum of 29 prints regardless of how
many remain in the program.  I would not be surprised to learn more will
drop out as we get closer to January 31st.  We should leave it up to Jim to
tell us in mid-late January how many to send, if not all.

Cheers

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From: "Ray Esposito" <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:44:05 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2429] Re: Baren Digest V5 #388 

>Ray, would you mind rehashing your reasons for not wanting more prints for
>archives, etc?  

Jean

Sorry to take so long to get back to you.  This was hashed out some months
back but I can give you my personal thoughts.

There are many reasons why I think this is a bad idea but will stick to just
two for now.

What historical record?

I know of no central worldwide archive for printmaking.  Should Dave be our
center for historical purposes?  Dave will have a copy of the exchange
print.  Dave is already our unofficial historian.  If as I have seen
suggested, Dave puts all of the prints into a special page in the web or the
encloy.  then is that not the historical record the public would have access
to just as they do now through Baren archives?  Making up extra packages to
keep "somewhere" seems out of place to me.  I doubt Dave would need or want
another taking up room.  The historical record is what we the members make
it and Baren seems the place to do it.

Where would you put the extras if the group insisted they wanted it done
that way?

Should a set be given to Dave to hold in Japan where few could review it?
Should Printhouse get an extra copy so people in Maryland can see it?
 Why? - I will have, can and will use my copy.  What about the Print Club of
Albany, The Kansas City Print Society, Foridia Printmaking Society or
Maryland Printmakers.  All of these keep print archives.  What about the
museums that have large print collections, should they all get a set and who
chooses which gets one - my favorite museum or yours (no sarcasm intended).

The point is, we already have the ability to build an historic record and I
see zero need to produce additional sets.  As to what to do with the sets
created because some members dropped out I leave that up to Jim and Dave.

HOWEVER, being the shy, withdrawn person I am, I must add two cents at this
point.   I am 100% oppose to "extra" sets.  I am behind the idea that if we
end up with, for example, just 20 contribuing members than THAT is the
number of prints we send to Jim.  Not one more and not one less.  The idea
is to produce sets for "participating" members.  That is what a print
exchange is all about.  Jim should tell us on the 15th how many there are
and that will be the number.  If there are additional last minute dropouts,
then the extras can be returned to each artist when Jim sends out the sets.

Just a few "quickie" thoughts on the subject.

Now I can just sit back and wait for the storm to break over my head.
:-)>>>

Cheers

Ray

BTW - I just received a letter today informing me that my collagraph "Santa
Fe Autumn" took 2nd place for printmaking in the Laredo, Texas 6th annual
juried exhibition.  First time I ever got a check for a show.  First Texas -
then the World!!!!!! :-)>>>

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From: "Ray Esposito" <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:56:41 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2430] Dave's Video 

I really do not like to bitch and throw a fit about things but I need to get
something off my chest.

A video was made of Dave being interviewed by a Japanese TV station.  That
video was to be circulated through all who wanted to see it, being passed
from one person to another.

I may be about the most dense person alive but I'll be damn if I can see ANY
reason why it is taking so long for this tape to get around.  The last I
heard of its whereabouts was in AUGUST for crying out loud.  What is the
problem????

You get the tape.  You look at the tape.  You make a copy of the tape.  You
put the tape in the damn mail.  WHAT IS SO DIFFICULT ABOUT THAT?  The whole
process should take a MAXIMUM of one week.  Since August, this tape could
have been reviewed by every member of Baren, the US Army and the entire
population of Okinawa.  My GOD!!!!!!!!

There.  And if anyone is offended...tough.  I needed to say it.

Whoever has it can keep it.

I want to thank Julio for making a copy of his copy and sending it to me.
That was very special.  I do not have the ability to make copies but if
anyone wants to borrow mine, I would be happy to send it under the condition
that you look at it, make a copy if you want and either return it or send it
to the next person WITHIN A WEEK.

As to the tape, Dave, it was wonderful.  I wish there was an English version
because some very obvious things were said that all of us could use.  I
especially liked the scene where the gentleman was showing you how to use
your brushes on the sharkskin.  The look on your face said - opps...I have
not been doing this right.  I lovvvved it.

Cheers

Ray

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From: Don Furst <furstd@uncwil.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:43:03 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2431] Re: Baren Digest V5 #388 

Hearty congratulations, Ray!
Be aware that sending to juried shows can quickly become an addition.
However, it is a fairly benign form of gambler's addiction.    :-)>

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From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:50:52 -0600
Subject: [Baren 2432] re: more exchange 

Ray writes:
"I am behind the idea that if we end up with, for example, just 20
contribuing members than THAT is the number of prints we send to Jim.  
Not one more and not one less.  The idea is to produce sets for "participating"
members. That is what a print exchange is all about.  Jim should tell us on the
15th how many there are and that will be the number.  If there are additional last
minute dropouts, then the extras can be returned to each artist when Jim sends out
the sets."

After some thought, I kind of have to agree with Ray here ( Wow, that's
twice in one week!). Only participating members should get a print set. Each member 
is free to display their set or to lend it out to institutions of their approval.
I plan to keep my set together and only display and view it as such. I will
print an additional 5-10  prints (AP) for future consideration (friends & family). 
The idea that we send 29 and James returns the extras together with the exchange folio sounds good to me. I would rather do that .

Again I will like to encourage the original 29 participants to not drop out
due to intimidation. We are not looking for the perfect print here, but only a 
sample of your work to share with your Baren family and to celebrate Baren's first 
year.

Ray:
It's there a place in the net to view your award winning print/collagraph ?

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From: "Ray Esposito" <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:19:07 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2433] Re: more exchange

Julio wrote
>After some thought, I kind of have to agree with Ray here ( Wow, that's
>twice in one week!).

I'm not sure I can remain in Baren if this keeps up.

>Again I will like to encourage the original 29 participants to not drop out
>due to intimidation.
>We are not looking for the perfect print here, but only a sample of your
>work to share with your

Julio

I doubt anyone would drop out due to intimidation.  However, having said
that, I would council any nervouse nellies not to look at others work.  We
have some great talent in Baren and if you view your work as a new woodblock
artist against theirs, it would be easy to say "to hell with it, I'm out of
here".  I am the rawest of woodcut rookies.  Look at my first works in the
encloy. and you will see very primitive woodblocks.  My exchange print will
also be very primitive.  I do not plan on comparing it to Dave, Jean, Jim or
anyone else.

One of the great things about Baren is that the most talented give so much
of themselves to those who are just starting out.  The last thing any of
them would do is criticize the new members.  As primitive as my work will
be, I think I will get nothing but rave reviews for just doing it and if
anyone is critical, I know it will be in the spirit of helping me get
better.

So I too encourage everyone to stay.

Having said that Julio, it is natural that some will drop out.  The reasons
given for those who have pulled out are all legimate and understandable and
no one can criticize them for it.  If others do have to drop out however, I
hope it is not because anyone feels their print will not be "worthy".
That's crap.  You are all worthy.  Personally, I am worried about getting my
print done in time because of the move from Florida to Maryland has taken
much, much longer than I had thought.  But I will have a print.

>Ray:
>It's there a place in the net to view your award winning print/collagraph ?

Alas, no.  Once Printhouse is up and running, it will also have a web site
but for now, no.

Cheers

Ray

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From: "Ray Esposito" <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:26:17 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2434] Re: Baren Digest V5 #388 

Don wrote:
>Hearty congratulations, Ray!
>Be aware that sending to juried shows can quickly become an addition.
>However, it is a fairly benign form of gambler's addiction.    :-)>

Thanks for the kind words and encouragement.

I do not think most new Baren members know that although I have been a print
collector for 30 years, I have only been an active printmaker since March
1st of this year.  So getting accepted into six juried shows and winning
awards in two (this was the first money however) is exciting.  At my age,
going the juried show route is the best way to get established and worth the
small fees involved so I will keep trying.  (Of course, at my age, just
waking up is the morning is thrilling.  :-)>>>)

Cheers
Ray

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From: Wanda Robertson <robertson@canby.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:46:19 -0700
Subject: [Baren 2435] Re: Baren Digest V5 #388 

Ray, you don't know how encouraging your success is to others who have
come into printmaking at a late date! Keep up the good work, and keep
that wonderful sense of humor.

Wanda

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From: jimandkatemundie@juno.com (James G Mundie)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 15:17:03 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2436] printmaker's seals 

Jean wrote:

>I have a "chop" which I plan to scan and offer to the Japanese 
>contingent of Baren to translate.  

Jean, I myself employ a little copper chop on my etchings.  It's more of
a blind stamp really that leaves behind an embossed image in the margin
of the paper.  Its just a sort of nicety that western printmakers picked
up from the East. As my chop isn't sufficient to act as my signature, I
also sign the prints.
  
Somebody brought up the question last week about how prints employing a
printer, publisher etc. are marked.  It is my understanding that commonly
the artist, printer and dealer (sometimes the collector) would all affix
their chops to the print.  In the case of Edo period woodblocks, the seal
of a censor was also required.  In my case, I do all of my own printing,
so mine is the only chop to mark the print before it leaves my hands. 


and Dave Stones wrote:

>Anyway, on (mostly traditional) artwork now in Japan you'll find a 
>seal or maybe two - almost always in vermilion - and these have either the 
>name of the artist (or pen-name) etc. carved into them. ...

A fellow I went to school with often used a 'pen-name' chop on his works.
 The problem was that (perhaps because he applied the inked seal to dry
washi) the pigment from the seal often came off onto anything in which it
came in contact.  He participated in a folio exchange and somehow managed
to smear vermilion across everyone else's prints.  I wonder if he was
using the genuine article but not giving the vermilion enough time to
'set'?  Either that or he was using some kind of crappy stamp pad ink.

A very happy new year to all,
James Mundie, Philadelphia USA

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From: Bill Ritchie <ritchie@emeralda.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:21:19 -0800
Subject: [Baren 2437] Re: Baren Digest V5 #388 

Hi--this Baren Digest V5 388 seems to begin with Jean's message when she
wrote on Christmas Day:
>Merry Christmas to all Bareners and lurkers.  We had a Christmas eve "waifs
>and orphans" party here yesterday, for our friends and acquaintances who
>are not with family this year.  Some were pleased to receive prints as
>Christmas gifts.  

>Ray, would you mind rehashing your reasons for not wanting more prints for
>archives, etc?  

As I followed the thread, I saw again the interesting--if not ugly--head of
"I'm a pro/I'm a beginner" etcetra and I want to include my comment.

It comes from outside the arts, crafts and design field, but practitioners
might have something to learn from this. The comment comes from one of my
favorite practitioners who studies human nature. He is Dr. Stephen Covey,
and he talks about "response-ability" -- the ability to respond.

Among the caveats he includes in his books and tapes is "Don't compare
yourself to other people."

I say, don't compare your prints to those of other people" when you are
making art, craft and design. Enjoy them. You are the world's expert in
your prints, and that excludes comparisons with other experts who--pity
them!--are experts only in *their* art, craft and design.

Some of the best and worst years of my life were spent perpetrating
comparisons between people based on the way their art, craft and design
looked at their own stages of development. I am a professor of art, and
that was my job.

Looking back, I can see the illusions created by comparisons was a help to
some and a disaster for  others. The truth is, it was a matter of what I
believe is called "triage" which is where people make decisions because
they think there's not enough to go around.

In arts, crafts and design, there is enough to go around. It was not as
true in the past as it is now, thanks to the Internet, the World Wide Web,
e-mail, FTP, and etc.

Many examples come to mind, but I think BAREN (the Encyclopedia, the Mail
List, etc.) is the best example in the world today. There will be more in
the future, for those who want to dwell on mezzotint, stone lithography, etc.

Dave's will probably be a model for everyone to follow.

I've drifted off from the subject, and I'm probably preaching to the choir.
But to all "newbies" in the art, craft and design of woodcut I want to
quote Covey: "Don't compare yourself to others." Another speaker said,
"Compare yourself to your own best self."

It's hard--even for me (I should know better!) to avoid it. It's like being
a child again, and that's sometimes no fun to see you have only two colors
and the person on the other side of the globe has nineteen colors!

What I love about printmaking is that there are so many things to dwell on
and enjoy on their own--regardless of other people. I can smell my pine
block, and that means more to me than how many colors I can handle.

Some of you are going to love my print in the Baren folio, and I am going
to love some of yours. This is so cool!

This is so long!
Game Inventor Bill H. Ritchie, Jr.

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From: "Jean Eger" <jeaneger@LanMinds.Com>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:18:03 -0800
Subject: [Baren 2438] Re:  Seals

David Stones: Thank you very much for your explanation of the seal, as used
traditionally in Japan.  Would you mind if I quote you about this on my web
site?  I see your seal in the lower right of "Alpha and Omega"
http://www.woodblock.com/forum/members/stones/alpha_omega.gif
It's on the lower right hand corner of "Stillness of the Night" and on the
lower left hand corner of "Spring Breeze" but it is obscured by the design
of the print in the latter two prints.
http://www.woodblock.com/forum/members/stones/stones.html

My seal has been scanned and it is at:
http://users.lanminds.com/~jeaneger/seal.html
Ordinary water-based stamp pad ink was used to print this.  David Stones (or
another Japanese Barener), could you please translate it for me?

I hope I did not scare anyone with talking about the definitions of libel.
I published a small newspaper for many years and worried about things like
that.  One of the Baren members wrote to me and said she was afraid to jump
into the conversation because it was so "rough and tumble."  There is really
a lot of latitude for free speech on the internet. Each field has basic
legal definitions.  Because we are writing in public, I guess that means we
are publishing.  This forum has helped my printmaking immensely.  Lots of
gratitude to David Bull and Graham and all the others.

Ray, I have started using Outlook Express along with the old standby Eudora
Light.  It's hard to decide which one to keep.  Eudora works so well.
Thanks,

Jean

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From: "Jeanne N. Chase" <studiojnc@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 15:45:14 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2439] Re: Baren Digest V5 #388

Hearty congratulations Ray!!!!!! I am sure that you are very; young at
heart. So what has age got to do with it?????
I certainly hope that all of the Baren Exchange members will stay with us.
I am not in the Dave, Jean, Andrea, April , etc; category in the printmaking
department, but I will be hanging in there. Hopefully we will all profit
from this exchange and it will become a tradition.
I think it is great to share any honors, exhibitions with members.
After all are'nt we just one big happy family?

APRIL; Just saw the wonderful article in Printmaking Magazine. We are
getting a lot of celebreties in our midst!!!!

Jeanne

HAPPY NEW YEAR, !!!!!!

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From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 16:22:05 -0600
Subject: [Baren 2440] re: Cool ! 

Bill writes:
>Some of you are going to love my print in the Baren folio, and I am going
>to love some of yours. This is so cool!"

YES! very cool indeed !

- - Truly an amazing tool this Internet thing......to think of the number of
hits that Baren gets daily....the exposure.
- - That possibly minutes after Dave receives his folio WE could all be
sharing in the Exchange thru the wonders of the net...

I am also familiar with Covey's writings ( Seven Habits....) and I agree
with Bill's thoughts on "comparisons". One of the hardest things for me is
to work with is the concept that there are things to which I have little or
no control ( The Circle of Influence concept) and that I should concentrate
on those things which I have control/influence. At this time I can't work
with many color blocks and I can't carve the details that Dave and others
create. But should that stop me ?

 I push myself to create the very best I can at this precise moment in
time!,  knowing that tomorrow will bring other exciting
opportunities.......

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From: "Fatima Ferreira" <fami@mail.telepac.pt>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 23:07:46 -0000
Subject: [Baren 2441] woodcut and woodprinting workshops 

Hello to all barens :

I have been lurking for some time and this forum has been increasing my 
will to learn wood printmaking techniques. I just have been working with 
copperplates till now.
I would like to know from those that live or know very well Japanese 
reallity if there is any place where is possible to attend a kind of 
workshop, for instance for a maximum period of a month, that should be 
worthwhile techically speaking and ... in english spoken ? I tried to know 
from Tama Art University, which I think should be a great place to learn 
but their printmaking courses are spoken in japanese and they took at least 
one year.

Thanks in advance and have a great year, a special printmaking year to allof you,

Fatima Ferreira

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End of Baren Digest V5 #391
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