[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest              Tuesday, 19 January 1999      Volume 06 : Number 417

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From: Cucamongie@aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:19:47 EST
Subject: [Baren 2717] Re:Hiroshige 

Jean writes:
<< However, it was disappointing to leave the show prepared to buy a nice book
 of Hiroshige prints and not have any there for sale.  There were quite a
 few prints for sale, however, for around $250 each. >>

Jean, I went to see this show also (in late December) and don't know why you
couldn't fine any nice Hiroshige books! - I was given several books for
Christmas from the bookstore that were being sold during this show - one of
which was a catalog of the Hiroshige show combined with the previous Hokusai
show - quite a nice book - and another of the books was a gorgeous book of the
bird and flower prints of Hiroshige.  I was really blown away by the show, and
wish I had been able to get to San Francisco earlier in time to see the
Hokusai show also.  There were so many aspects of the prints to appreciate:
the composition, the colors, the fine lines, the wonderful abbreviation of
line, etc etc.  As for the colors, I'm quite sure that these colors on the
prints WERE faded from their original colors, as many of the pigments used
back then were quite fugutive.  Anyway, glad someone else on the forum had the
opportunity to see this show!  It gave me a lot to think about . . . 
Best regards,

Sarah Hauser

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From: Jacob Roquet <roquet@coastalnet.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:51:01 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2718] Southern Graphics Council meeting 

>I guess everyone probably knows about the Southern Graphics council meeting
>this year, at Arizona State U. in Tempe, Arizona.  

Is anyone considering attending this? Has anyone attended in the past?

Jake

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From: Gary Luedtke <GLuedtke@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:34:59 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2719] re: sad tidings & more 

"and a virgin Shintaro woodblock could be used to teach future aspiring
craftmans what to aim at/for.....there is no substitute for running your
fingers thru a nicely planed woodblock and
letting the soft light reflect it's beautiful surface..."

Dave,  and others of woodworking experience...........

How is a block to be used for woodblock printing cured any differently than
wood used for fine furniture making?   Is it the curing of this block that
is special, or the planing of it?  I don't mean to be disrespectful to the
ancient craft passed down thru the generations, but wood is wood, and
facing a major crisis in the supply of that "traditional" wood, it appears
an alternate source needs to be found.

From some of my previous woodworking experience I learned that
cabinet-grade wood is cured to a certain moisture content, say 6%, whether
it is air-cured, which takes a long time, or kiln-dried, which cuts the
time down from years to 4-6 weeks.   It appears that the moisture content
is the critical issue.  I wonder if there are not lumber supply houses in
Japan that deal with furniture-grade wood that may offer somewhat the same
services.   

If planing is the critical part, and I recall hearing how these boards are
planed by hand to a mirror-like surface, this can also be done
mechanically.   Granted, it may not be quite as good, but faced with
finding an alternative, there may be no choice.   I've heard of "Japanese
planes" that plane the surface of the board not by a rotating planer head,
such as is commonly used and which leaves on the surface mini sand-dune
like ripples, but by feeding the board through a diagonal knife which
leaves a very smooth surface.  If this were not smooth enough, it could
always be fed through a thickness sander with extremely fine grit, and the
mirror-like smoothness and evenness achieved.   All of these techniques
should already be in use there and available to furniture makers, so I
would suggest contacting some and explaining the problem, and see if they
might help.

It seems that perhaps borrowing techniques from other crafts may have to
answer for your new supply of blocks, or give up their use altogether and
go to plywood. 

Just some thoughts..

Gary  

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From: Gary Luedtke <GLuedtke@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:56:17 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2720] Re:Hiroshige 

"...it was disappointing to leave the show prepared to buy a nice book
of Hiroshige prints and not have any there for sale."

"...Wouldn't the real ones have faded by now, even if they had been in
Michener's drawer? "

Jean,   If this was an exhibit of Mr. Michener's collection of Japanese
Prints, it undoubtedly was on loan from the Honolulu Academy of Art, to
which he left his collection.   There was a similar exhibit there some time
ago and the Academy has a book, several actually, which highlight the
Hiroshige part of the collection.   They should still offer it, so you
might contact them if you're really interested.   They even have a web-site
though I don't have their address right at hand.   A simple search ought to
turn them up.

The Hiroshige exhibit of Michener's at the Spaulding House in Honolulu, way
back when, was the first contact with Japanese prints I ever had, and even
though it did not leave at the time a lightning bolt impression, as they
were "muddy" in coloring, very faded looking, and the light level was so
low in the museum you had to squint from a foot away to even see them, they
did leave a subtle seed in my mind which later blossomed into a much
greater interest in and appreciation for his art, and woodblock printing.  
The first Hiroshige print I bought was the real eye-opener, and it was a
copy.  I still have it and every time I look at it, even after acquiring
more knowledge of woodblock printing, I am still amazed.   Even as a copy
it is near flawless in it's printing delicacy.    Dave, with his greater
knowledge, I am sure could detect more than I, but to me, it is a wonderful
example of the heights which can be attained in this art form.   

Gary

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From: Jacob Roquet <roquet@coastalnet.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:14:23 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2721] Re: sad tidings & more 

My sympathies as well for those who knew these craftsman.

Gary wrote;

>>From some of my previous woodworking experience I learned that
>cabinet-grade wood is cured to a certain moisture content, say 6%, whether
>it is air-cured, which takes a long time, or kiln-dried, which cuts the
>time down from years to 4-6 weeks.   It appears that the moisture content
>is the critical issue.  I wonder if there are not lumber supply houses in
>Japan that deal with furniture-grade wood that may offer somewhat the same
>services.

Woodworkers know that no matter how you deal with moisture content in wood
it will always find its equilibrium with the environment. No matter how a
fine cabinetmaker dries his wood, he realizes the environment will come
back into play and the craftsman has to design the construction to handle
uncontrolled environments. We read on [baren] the dryness in Las Vegas and
the moisture issues in Vancouver.

Planing it appears to me is the issue as well as perhaps the choice in the
wood and the part of the wood selected (quarter-sawn or other) must be the
critical issue here.

So I am back to my original query: What is the best choice in blocks,
thickness, part of the log, etc.? I have rambled through the archives and
not seen any detail on this. (Though I admit I have just skimmed the
archives.)

Jake

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From: jimandkatemundie@juno.com (James G Mundie)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:46:01 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2722] answers to more exchange questions 

Cyndy wrote:
>Evidently I signed on to the Baren too late to get the particulars of 
>the print exchange.  Could you please beam them over to me?  Don't know if 
>I can have an edition ready by Feb. 1, but I'd like to try.

Cyndy (and any other 'newbies' who are wondering what the heck we're
talking about),  the exchange was something set in motion last September,
so it's a bit late for you to get in on it now.  At that time,
twenty-nine members of [Baren] committed themselves to participation. 
However, it's possible this may become an annual tradition, so you could
get in next time around.

***
Jean wrote:

>James, do you mean that you can send the UPS packages back C.O.D.?  I 
>take my UPS packages right to the UPS office, so I get a low rate.  I could
>enclose that return postage, but would it be enough?

Yes.  Shippers like UPS will allow for a C.O.D. arrangement by charging
the recipient.  This is much easier in cases where the recipient has an
account with that company because no actual cash changes hands at the
time of delivery.  

If you like, I'm sure your UPS office would allow you to pre-pay for
return and give you the necessary forms and tracking stickers to enclose
in your package. That way, I could just slap the new labels, etc., on the
box over the originals and send it back to you.  Hassle free...

***

Perhaps I should update you all on my own progress with the exchange
print.  Well, here at Procrastination Central, I'm nearly finished
cutting and scratching my board (hey, wasn't this my idea? (-;).  

Yesterday, I purchased the rest of the paper I'll need for the run. I've
chosen to use unbleached mulberry for this one.  It has a nice warm color
that I think will compliment my subject nicely.  I should be able to take
my first proof later tonight or tomorrow, and if all goes well, I'll
print the lot in another day or two.
Best of luck to all the rest of you stragglers out there!

Dawdling,
James Mundie, Philadelphia USA  

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From: "Atkinson, Andrew2" <Andrew2.Atkinson@uwe.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:03:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Baren 2723] Re:Hiroshige 

I saw a Hiroshige show at the Royal Academy in London last 
summer.  I don't know if it was the same show in a 
different venue (with print they could obviously be 
completely different prints - or are there standard 
collections that are touted in different places?) but its 
nice that there can be common points of discussion across 
the world without resorting to the (sometimes) 
disappointing internet (you just can't get close enough, 
too much is lost, and anyway museums have nice cafes).  

What struck me most about the show was the insight into the 
past and (for me, although not everyone) the impressions of 
Japan's landscape, towns and people.  I recognise that 
there is a certain ammount of 'artistic licence' (a more 
demeaning term has yet to be dreamt up) and that there may 
not be an exact correspondence between what was drawn and 
what  _was_ but what was drawn spoke beautifully.  

I remember getting lost in a print showing some 
(presumably) dignarities crossing a ford with various 
people getting carried on the backs of some servants (or 
perhaps carrying people across rivers was there job, I 
don't know) and you could see people sitting on the far 
bank exhausted, people waiting for their turn, people 
adjusting themselves after the precarious crossing...  And 
all this was set on some planes at the foot of a range of 
hills or mountains. They still had a long way to go, there 
was nothing in between them and the horizon.  

Andrew

(I'll try to stop writing in parentheses, soon, I promise.)

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:36:59 -0800
Subject: [Baren 2724] Re: sad tidings & more 

Jake Wrote.....
>and the moisture issues in Vancouver.

It is about the same moisture in Vancouver as it is here in Victoria.
The big difference is that Vancouver is a ZOO.
Victoria is laid back, gentil and civilized, on a pace of its own.
Think of the Garden of Eden when you think of Victoria.
We have blossoms starting and the Daffodil are well on the way.

>Planing it appears to me is the issue as well as perhaps the choice in the
>wood and the part of the wood selected (quarter-sawn or other) must be the
>critical issue here.
>
>So I am back to my original query: What is the best choice in blocks,
>thickness, part of the log, etc.? I have rambled through the archives and
>not seen any detail on this. (Though I admit I have just skimmed the
>archives.)

I don't think there is anything there.....
I have a very heavy schedule this week so can't take the time to help you here.
I should be out from under this week end.
Have a TV crew coming to shoot some blah blah blah  re the Life Drawing
sessions.  (Now that should be interesting.....Nudes on TV). and another
crew coming in to do some stuff for a documentary about lighthouses and the
project.
Then a curator from Saskatchewan to talk about ....I'm not sure what and
....well that is enough.

Cheers

Graham

Ya sure ..... a pace of its own.... Absolutely crazy......

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From: Jacob Roquet <roquet@coastalnet.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:34:12 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2725] Thanks 

Thanks, Graham.

>Have a TV crew coming to shoot some blah blah blah  re the Life Drawing
>sessions.  (Now that should be interesting.....Nudes on TV). and another
>crew coming in to do some stuff for a documentary about lighthouses and the
>project.


Can I expect to see this on the Lifetime Channel or should that be "Life
Line Channel")

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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:13:55 +0900
Subject: [Baren 2726] Re: wood preparation ... 

Gary wrote:

> How is a block to be used for woodblock printing cured any differently than
> wood used for fine furniture making?   Is it the curing of this block that
> is special, or the planing of it?  I don't mean to be disrespectful to the
> ancient craft passed down thru the generations, but wood is wood ...

Yes of course it is, and our basic needs are no different from those of
fine cabinetmakers: a well-seasoned board of fine quality, planed glass
smooth.

But a couple of details _do_ make it a bit more difficult for me than
for the cabinetmaker:

1) The board absolutely _must_ be dried to the point where it will not
shrink any further.  The wood I've been receiving in recent years has
not been cured that well, and I've been getting a lot of shrinkage after
carving, throwing the registration all to h*ll.  Gary wrote to me
privately some time ago to suggest kiln drying as an alternative to
extended air drying, and I bounced this idea off a couple of people
here.  They replied that they thought (but without any actual
experience) that boards 'force dried' this way would not be as stable as
boards dried through a slower 'natural' process.  I have no real data on
this either way ...

For myself, I am now involved in purchasing a whole bunch of cherry,
which I am going to dry out on my veranda, over the next four or five
years.

2) Planing.  For key blocks to be used in the delicate way that I use
them, sanding is out of the question.  Yes I know about sanding under
water with 240,000 grit (or whatever ...), and how smooth the wood
_feels_ afterward, but I speak from direct personal experience that this
is simply not good enough.  I can't tell you exactly what happens down
there on the molecular level, but I do know the result: Fine lines
carved on a block that has been surfaced with sandpaper almost _always_
expand in width when the block is washed and printed.  I suspect that
this is from the 'torn' surface of the wood wicking water down into the
cells, which then expand in size.

Wood planed with an ultra-sharp fine plane blade does _not_ expand like
this.  

For many people, this expansion of lines is not a problem, but for me,
it makes such sanded wood useless (for key blocks).  

Gary mentioned using a 'slicer' rather than a rotary planer, and
although this in theory would do the job, in practice it is very
difficult.  Much cherry wood (and nearly _all_ cherry wood of the
hardest type), is heavily 'figured' and full of convoluted grain.  In
addition to this, when planing the surface of a wide board, one nearly
always encounters grain running in opposite directions on each side of
the board.  The slicer can't handle these anomalies, and pulls out
little 'chips' as it works over the areas of 'bad' grain.  A craftsman
working with a smaller plane can turn the block as necessary.  And
that's where the high level of skill comes in - to keep the surface
_dead_ smooth when working with a small plane.

I'm not trying to shoot down all the new ideas, and believe me I am very
open to whatever suggestions come up.  The colour blocks for the print I
will send to the exchange are cherry/plywood laminations, smoothed under
water with the fine sandpaper.  I'm not trying to be a purist.  But for
my key blocks I _do_ need something special ...

Dave

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End of Baren Digest V6 #417
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