[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Baren Digest Monday, 1 February 1999 Volume 06 : Number 430 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Bull Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 00:52:37 +0900 Subject: [Baren 2847] Blacker blacks ... When I was in Matsumura san's place one day last December (looking for a Xmas present for my girls), he showed me a small jar of concentrated 'sumi' pigment and suggested I take one home and try it. I wasn't particularly interested at the time, as I usually make up my own black pigment using bags of broken and discarded sumi sticks, and didn't see any reason to change. But this evening when I was printing the labels that will go on the outside of the cases for my new Surimono Albums, I decided to give it a try. Wow! I don't know what they call this stuff (the label is just a hand-scribbled slip of paper), but it I was naming it, I'd call it 'Concentrated Black Hole'! When you open the little jar, you find a sort of sticky crumbly black stuff inside. Spoon some into a small bowl and mix it with just a minimum of water, until it turns into a gloopy stuff sort of like the texture of the mud we see in shots of Hawaiian volcanic mud holes. When you swab some onto the block, it is so 'muddy' you would never believe that it would smooth out properly, but with a good brush it will 'lay down' OK. When you rub with the baren it jumps through to the back of the paper right away. Then when you peel off the paper ... you find that deep sort of velvety black that your eyes have trouble focussing on ... I'm hooked! It's great stuff. If anybody's interested, I'll call him up and find out what they call it, and how much a jar costs ... Dave ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 09:55:02 -0800 Subject: [Baren 2848] Re: Blacker blacks ... Dave wrote.... >I'm hooked! It's great stuff. If anybody's interested, I'll call him >up and find out what they call it, and how much a jar costs ... Hummmm. I would be interested..... I always mix my blacks using the tri-colour system. Never been disappointed as I can make it warm or cold. It this stuff warm or cold? Maybe I should have a some to try as I am thinking seriously of doing some one colour black thingies eventually. Cheers Graham ------------------------------ From: Jean Eger Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 09:41:23 -0800 Subject: [Baren 2849] Re: Baren Digest V6 #429 Hallo Bareners, Miniprint exhibitions are a happy addition to the landscape and are an international phenomenon. I think 11 x 14 is a good size. I recommend your attention to a recent international exhibition in which judges chose a variety of prints of the highest caliber from many countries. You will be able to see the top quality of these prints even from the tiny digital reproductions. http://www.krakow.pl/WK/EN/kultura/smtg/ The organisers published a history of the exhibition which showed how it grew. This was so inspiring that I was practically running out into the street to organize a triennial in this area. Many international print exhibitions are listed at http://eyelid.ukonline.co.uk/print/biennal.htm Jean ------------------------------ From: "Ray Esposito" Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:55:41 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2850] supplies When I began my art career last March, I had no idea what things costs. So, I ordered catalogs from every company I could think of or learn about and did an extensive analysis of where to get the best prices. The results were to buy inks and paper from Graphics Chemical, Gesso and mediums from Dick Blick, framing supplies and matboard from United Manufacturers and frames from Florida Frames. I have a continuing program of reviewing all possibilities but have never found any company that could beat these. Until Now While sitting here waiting for the Super Bowl to come on, there was a TV ad for Mister Art at http://www.misterart.com so I decided to check it out. Their prices wiped out all two of my companies. They could not beat United's prices for mat board and I will not be able to check out Florida Framing until tomorrow Some examples: Arches 88 paper: Graphic Chemical $3.10ea. (minimum 50 MisterArt $2.36ea (no minimum) Gloss Medium: Blick Dick Name Brand: $35.90 gallon MisterArt $26.78 gallon The bottom line is, you need to check out these prices. They have an extensive list of Japanese papers you want to look. Cheers Ray ------------------------------ From: Maria in LV-NV@ Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:20:47 EST Subject: [Baren 2851] Re: tiny comment on tiny splinters on roller Brenda: Invest in a cheap cleaning brush with plastic bristles (found in diverse stiffness); use carefully with soft woods and fine lines because rough brushing can kill your detail and remove. Then finish with a graphics soft wide brush used to remove eraser "boogers". I usually condition the block with linseed oil because I like the smell and it saves me ink by partially sealing the wood, but I'm one of those "oily ink" people. Graham: What an inspiring passage on critiques! Thanks, I'm passing it on to everyone I know. Health to all, Maria ------------------------------ From: "Bea Gold" Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:31:04 -0800 Subject: [Baren 2852] Re: supplies Dear Ray, Thanks for the information. I've been doing some research too and I just ordered 10, 32x40, 2 ply white Strathmore museum boards from Dick Blick for $44 - It appears that Mr. Art is $126.88 for 25. DB would be $110 for 25 at the price of $4.40 each. They don't charge shipping if the order is over $100. I just ordered custom cut mats too (they don't do backing boards though) from Graphik Dimensions http://www.graphikdimensions.com/ that were a very good price, I think. Since I don't cut them myself and my husband flunked his class in framing I am looking for an inexpensive way to mat my prints. They sent me samples of their acid free boards and I measured and placed an order for 17 mats. They were shipping free (and tax free for CA) for the first order and so it cost $158. The smallest one is 7 1/4"x8 1/2" for $4.25 and the largest is 26"x30" for $16.75. I haven't gotten them yet but I'll let you know how I like them. Can you tell me about this product? Arches 88 paper: Graphic Chemical $3.10ea. (minimum 50 I'm looking for printing paper. Thanks, Bea Gold ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:28:31 -1000 Subject: [Baren 2853] Re: Hello again Hello all, after a rather complicated move and settling in (to say nothing of the month long wait to get a cable internet connection), I am back on the list. It took me several evenings to go through all the missed conversations on the archive, and I would like to say howdy to all the new members that have joined, also congratulations to all the sucesses that I have read about, especially yours, Dave. (Before I forget, I do have the ability to duplicate video tapes, so if you would like a bunch of copies of the TV show, let's see, anyone interested?) It has been very interesting to hear of everyone's progress on the print exchange, I am looking forward to seeing the whole completed project on the site soon. My two cents on cutting plywood, a fine blade in a table saw works best, and it would be worth finding someone with one, barring that, when cutting with a saber saw, use a straight edge and a sharp knife to score the wood on either side of where the kerf will be, all the way through the top veneer, and you will eliminate nearly all chipping. So what is this stuff called "snow" that I have been reading about on several postings? Jack Reisland Reisland Conservation and Restoration ------------------------------ From: "Ray Esposito" Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:44:29 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2854] Re: supplies Bea Thanks for the update. What your post really says is, you need to keep all of the catalogs and web sites handy and make sure you check out each item you want to buy. Thanks for the tip on Graphik Cheers Ray ------------------------------ From: "Bea Gold" Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:05:46 -0800 Subject: [Baren 2855] Re: supplies Hi again Ray and all, Right, I love checking for bargains - I've been looking for print paper and haven't found anything I feel safe with yet. You listed some and I couldn't find it on Mr. Art - Can you tell me about this product that you mentioned? Arches 88 paper: Graphic Chemical $3.10ea. (minimum 50) I'm looking for printing paper. And now on to other important things - please tell me about the video I read about, how to join the print exchange and how to join Baren After Five. Thanks for all the tid bits. I think the little prints show is interesting and I may try to enter. ------------------------------ From: "Ray Esposito" Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:38:45 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2856] Re: supplies Bea You are going to be a great addition to Baren and Baren After Five. I don't know anyone who can ask so many questions in such a short paragraph. :-)> (Of course, Graham can but I am speaking of intelligent questions.) For Baren After Five (BA5) go to http://www.woodblock.com/forum/index.html and scroll down to Subscriptions, then to BA5 and fill in the form. The Print exchange is an annual event. Actually, this is our first year and it is closed. We had 29 sign up last September and the prints are due this week. I assume we will do it again in 1999 but we will need to discuss how we want to do it next year. We welcome your input when the discussion begins. The prints will be put on Baren by Dave sometime after he gets his set and you can see what we did. I am debating entering the small pint show but seldom do prints that size and may not be able to complete anything in time. If it becomes an annual event, I might consider it for next year as there are four or five small print shows around the country. Arches 88 and BFK are both made by Arches in France. Printmakers, not woodblock artists, love these two papers. You will fine most, but of course not all, Baren members use Japanese papers as they are the traditional papers for woodblock. Arches 88 is also widely used for silkscreen because it has a very smooth serface. As to price, MisterArt had Arches 88 for just 2.36 and BFK for just 1.97. I have no one who could beat those prices. If you know of someone let me know as I buy tons of it. I might also point out that the Printmaking Center at the College of Santa Fe uses these papers exclusively and thwey were what I learned on. I hope I have answered your questions. Cheers Ray ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 12:05:31 +0900 Subject: [Baren 2857] Re: Concentrated Black Hole ... Graham wrote, re the concentrated black pigment: > Hummmm. I would be interested..... >I always mix my blacks using the tri-colour system. >Never been disappointed as I can make it warm or cold. >It this stuff warm or cold? You've got me here Graham, I don't understand these terms. It's just very, _very _ black! Ray asked: >I'd be very interested in the concentrated sumi. Such black that >saturates and leaves such a splendid depth must be wonderful. let me >know the cost & shipping procedures. I just called up Matsumura, and they say the stuff is called 'Itsutsu boshi neri zumi'. It's a little plastic jar containing enough concentrate to mix up quite a lot of black mud ... Their price is 2,000 yen, plus something for shipping I guess. They still don't have their English catalogue out yet, so I can't give you all the details of how they want orders. I understand Matt has been buying things from them ... any advice on this Matt? Anyway their address is: Woodlike Matsumura Kamishakujii 1-11-9 Nerima-ku Tokyo 177 email is: woodlike@mtd.biglobe.ne.jp Fax is: 03-3920-2638 *** Jack wrote: > (Before I forget, I do >have the ability to duplicate video tapes, so if you would like a bunch >of copies of the TV show, let's see, anyone interested?) Wow! For me to duplicate them here in Japan would be extremely expensive. This sounds like a wonderful offer Jack, but I rather suspect that quite a number of people might be interested. It might turn out to be more work than you would bargain for ... (For those not in on previous postings, this is a one-hour documentary program on my ten-year Hyakunin Isshu series. It's _not_ a 'how to' video, but of course during the program there are any number of carving and printing scenes, as well as visits to other carvers, printers, the block planer, etc.. It is _all_ in Japanese ...) At the moment, I have yet to receive a copy of the program tape (I even haven't seen it yet myself), but could easily fire one over to Jack once it arrives ... Our last attempt to 'circulate' a video turned out to be rather less than practical, as I understand that one is still making the rounds, and some people who asked to see it are still waiting, about a year after we started ... Having members 'order' one from Jack might be a better way to go ... Jack, would you want people to send you a cheque to cover your time, the tape, the postage, etc.? *** Bea asked: > please tell me about the video I > read about, how to join the print exchange and how to join Baren After Five. The video you have just heard about. As for the print exchange, you are much too late for the current exchange, which wraps up _today_, but of course it looks like there will be another one coming, and you will be hearing plenty about it in due course no doubt ... As for Baren After Five, a subscription form is located on the web at: http://www.woodblock.com/forum/subscribing.html Dave ------------------------------ From: Gary Luedtke Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:13:37 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2858] Re: Concentrated Black Hole ... Dave/Jack, I would certainly be interested in getting a copy of your video, Dave. Jack, my order's in. Let me know the cost and how you would like payment to be made, (whenever you can get a copy of it of course). Gary ------------------------------ From: Matthew.W.Brown@VALLEY.NET (Matthew W Brown) Date: 01 Feb 99 02:01:24 EST Subject: [Baren 2859] Arches88 & Blacker blacks ... Bea on Arches 88: A friend of mine (Sandy Wadlington) has found Arches 88 is the paper she likes for doing hanga (Japanese method) prints. Internally sized it holds up pretty well but you may want to use a protective sheet beneath your baren when rubbing. I am almost positive Micah Schwaberow, a hanga printmaker working in Calif. who studied with Toshi Yoshida, prints on Arches 88 also (you can see his work by going to www.vernegallery.com.) Dave wrote: >When I was in Matsumura san's place one day last December (looking for a >Xmas present for my girls), he showed me a small jar of concentrated >'sumi' pigment and suggested I take one home and try it. When I first read this post I thought Dave of a concentrated sumi I bought that is in a green tube with a yellow cap (it is sort of like tooth paste, maybe a bit runnier). I wondered if I had gotten it from Matsumara-san but more likely it came from Aiko's Art Supply in Chicago. Now I am curious if the two products are equivalent or . . .quite different. I have bought things from Matsumara-san several times and it has worked out well. Dave has an e-mail link to him somewhere in the 'Pedis and I have one myself in The Shop section of my ooloopress.com site. You tell him what you want, he gets back to you (after several days) with a total in $ including shipping, you post him an international postal money order, he ships you the items. The murasaki baren that he sells is a very good buy. Matt P.S. Dave, did Graham get back to you on warm and cool blacks? Warm blacks tending to a reddish hue (deep inside that 'black hole'), cool tending to a bluish hue. Yeah for the Baren After Five! A nice idea, great introduction, and definitely the right man for the job 'behind the bar'! ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 19:13:01 +0900 Subject: [Baren 2860] Re: Blacker blacks ... Matt wrote, > When I first read this post I thought Dave of a concentrated sumi I bought > that is in a green tube with a yellow cap (it is sort of like tooth paste, > maybe a bit runnier). I wondered if I had gotten it from Matsumara-san but > more likely it came from Aiko's Art Supply in Chicago. Now I am curious if the > two products are equivalent or . . .quite different. What you're describing there sounds like the stuff the schoolkids use for their calligraphy lessons. In the old days (maybe a decade ago or more ...) all the kids had to use the stick ink and a stone when getting ready for calligraphy practice, but the schools now seem to have switched to using this concentrated stuff. When my kids first brought some home in that little plastic tube, I was of course interested, and tried some of it out for printing. It's OK, but the black is somewhat weak and characterless, somewhat on the grey side. >like tooth paste, maybe a bit runnier The stuff in Matsumura san's jar is not runny at all. It is moist and crumbly; you dig some out of the jar with a spoon, and use very little water to turn it into mud. When you're ready to print, it's then sort of like 'toothpaste but a bit runnier'. It really is very very dense stuff. > P.S. Dave, did Graham get back to you on warm and cool blacks? Warm blacks > tending to a reddish hue (deep inside that 'black hole'), cool tending to a > bluish hue. Well again, I don't want to seem dense on this, but it's just black. I _do_ have some other types of sumi here, one called 'ao zumi' (blue sumi), which when used quite thinly, _does_ look a bit bluish ... I've also seen 'aka zumi' (red sumi) on the shelves, but have never tried it. The calligraphy people here are just crazy about sumi, and the local art shop in nearby Tachikawa has (this is no exaggeration) hundreds of different formulations of sumi. And it's not a specialty shop by any means. Dave P.S. Couldn't help noticing the time of your post, Matt: >Date: 01 Feb 99 02:01:24 EST Doing a little 'moonlighting'? ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V6 #430 ***************************