[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest             Thursday, 4 February 1999     Volume 06 : Number 434

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From: mmflavio <mmflavio@slip.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:37:39 +0000
Subject: [Baren 2915] Plates rubbing off 

I still have a question:
It is about the problem that occurs when one
prints one color over one other that is still fresh: it rubs off on the
plate and the coverage is unsatisfactory. Will drying the first
completely, then wetting the paper again solve it?
Thank you,

Marco

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From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:38:13 -0600
Subject: [Baren 2916] re: Plates rubbing off & more problems 

MARCO writes:
>Will drying the first completely, then wetting the paper again solve it?

I had a similar problem when doing my exchange print. I printed blocks that were
adjacent to each other and because the paper was toooooo wet I got some bleeding
of the colors on each other. The third block in the sequence would overlay part
of the color of the first block....adding to the problem. It also created an
additional problem I was not aware of and that is that all the printed areas
were in the center of the print thus creating an area super saturated with wet
pigment and water and leaving the outside area of unprinted paper with less
wetness.

After rethinking the process, I decided to re-sequence the order of printing the
blocks so I would have an inside-outside-inside block sequence. That allowed the
first block area printed a chance to absorb and dry a little before me coming
over with now block #5 (previously block #3) and partially overlaying the color.
I also was stacking my wet printed sheets one in top of the other...thus all the
printed areas (middle of the print) were sitting in top of each other adding to
the unbalance of the whole thing.....the next time around I flipped the sheets
so that printed wetness was balanced throughout the sheet...

It's a tricky thing this water printing, but I am learning awfully fast.
Just how much pigment will the paper absorb when wet vs when dry ? or when
another color has already being absorb ????


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From: "Jeanne N. Chase" <studiojnc@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:10:22 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2917] Re: Plates rubbing off & more problems  

Dear Julio
NOW I know I will hang in there with my oil based inks. Have been trying to
get brave and try the watercolor way of printing. I think you scared me off
!!!!
Anyway I admire your courage, hang in there !!!

Jeanne {the coward}

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From: Bill Ritchie <ritchie@seanet.com>
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:41:13 -0800
Subject: [Baren 2918] Re: Plates rubbing off & more problems 

Hi Jeanne and Julio -
I've been lurking and skimming messages, and I came across the word
"coward" and "oil-base" and "water base" etc.

And it reminded me of a story one of my students told me a long time ago.

He said one of the most stupid things he ever heard a professor say was
when I was lecturing one time and I made the analogy between water based
printing and oil base as being like being from different planets.

He said that I said, "Asian woodblock printmaking comes from the Water
Planet, and Western--or oil base printing--comes from the Oil Planet!"

I agreed with him. It really was a stupid thing to say.

Year later they made a movie, though, called "Water World." I don't know
what it's about. Someday I'll rent it.

But, hey, I'm not in the "after five group" here--so I'll keep it technical.

Technically, it not only takes practice but also some technical
experience--some of it is scientific--like the nature of pigments and their
molecular affinity to water or oil.

Then you come to the paper fibers--baste fiber versus cotton and linen or
(whatchacallit woodfiber?) or cellulose, synthetic blends, etc.

Then of course there's mechancals, like pressure, duration or "moment" and
so on.

Hmm. Now I'm getting scared, too!

Anyway, keep practicing, my friends in the printmaking world.

Bill H. Ritchie, Jr.

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From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:23:31 -0600
Subject: [Baren 2919] re: afraid of water 

Jeanne (the coward) writes:
>NOW I know I will hang in there with my oil based inks. Have been trying to
>get brave and try the watercolor way of printing. I think you scared me off!!!!

No way !. Give it a try, I am having lots of fun with it. All you need is some
watercolors or water ink or any type of pigment soluble in water. My first
prints were made with a $3.99 set of Crayola poster paints locally available
everywhere and a "cheap" ( $8.00) baren. Not great, but there was certain charm
& spontaneity to those first tries.

I have since upgraded to better pigments, and a better baren. I have even
created my exchange print using the traditional
("sort of") Kento registering. Piece of cake.

Water might not be for everyone, but one thing is for sure....it's readily
available and it's clean!!!!
So don't be afraid and  jump in the water with us.....no skin-dipping allowed
unless you belong to the BA5 group!

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From: mkrieger@mb.sympatico.ca
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 17:46:14 -0600
Subject: [Baren 2920] Re: A print or not a print? 

Gary Luedtke wrote:
> Fill me in,  am I a printmaker or not?

Well Gary. My apologies for taking a while to answer to answer this one.

I want to tell you a little story. When we started MPA, we thought we
would write to a few of the established print clubs and ask them for
advice on how they did some of the things we were brand new at.

One of the questions we asked was "What is your definition of an
original print?" The response that sticks in my mind was the advice one
established group gave us. Don't even start trying to define what is a
print. Its sucks all the energy out of your organization, leads to hard
feelings and is generally a waste of time.

So consequently I am not even going to ask the organizing committee this
one. It's up to you. We did not exclude computer generated work in the
prospectus as we did with photography. If you consider what you do to be
prints, we will take your word for it.

Sincerely 

Mary Krieger
Winnipeg Manitoba

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From: Gary Luedtke <GLuedtke@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:53:35 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2921] Re: A print or not a print? 

Mary,  you replied
>It's up to you. We did not exclude computer generated work in the
>prospectus as we did with photography. If you consider what you do to be
>prints, we will take your word for it.

Now that's a down-to-earth philosophy that appeals to me.   An honest
attempt to display art anywhere in the field.   It does place me in
somewhat of a quandary,  because my original and abiding intent is to have
woodblock prints made from my designs, yet the images which I have created
can be printed off a computer and show their designs without going to that
length, even though that was why they were created, as guides for carvers
and printers.   I'll have to think that over.   Thanks for your honest
response, Mary.   I appreciate it.

Gary

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From: "Haydee Landing" <hlanding@coqui.net>
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:50:12 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2922] Re: exchange status and "Orange.." 

Sorry. I sent you on february 3 my prints.  I have no internet service for
two weeks.  Sorry for the delay.  I'm very anxious to see all the prints in
the exchange.  I want to see the images and the japanese water base
technique.

Haydee 

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From: "Haydee Landing" <hlanding@coqui.net>
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:38:46 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2923] Re: The next step for ... 

Dave: I sent my print to Mundie on february 3. Sorry. I have to make a new
edition because I think that you, all the barens members, don't use a thin
paper that will see the print in the back of the paper.  In my country is
usually in this way if is by hand.  Then I deceided to print in Rives BFK
in press and I have to change the inks  and have problems with the
plates..But I finish and I will be happy to receive the portfolio.  
Julio told me that you need some information.  
Title:  Man of the '98
Country: PUERTO RICO
Paper: Rives BFK
Type of print:  By press
Numbers of blocks: 5
Numbers of color: 5

If you need other information please ask me. Now I have reconected the
internet service that I lost for two weeks.  Thanks for your interest,

Haydee

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From: "Bea Gold" <bnjgold@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:38:39 -0800
Subject: [Baren 2924] oil vs water

This is Bea Gold -  I just read of your watercolor fears, Mary - I have used
oil inks all my life (practically)  and only recently decided to move to
water based inks with many problems, mostly on large cuts . Did you see my
message re-glycerin on the 1st?  No one answered and I thought I was the
only one having problems!  Yesterday I decided to print using water over my
painting and the ink stuck to the paper and some of it pulled off.  Grrrrrrr
I am convinced it's the paper - I'm working with some old stuff and hope
when it's gone I'll be OK.  I don't want to go back to oil on my new cuts,
even though it is a pleasure!

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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 10:31:31 +0900
Subject: [Baren 2925] Re: offsetting ... 

Marco asked:
> I still have a question:
> It is about the problem that occurs when one
> prints one color over one other that is still fresh: it rubs off on the
> plate and the coverage is unsatisfactory. Will drying the first
> completely, then wetting the paper again solve it?

Back in [Baren 2783] I mentioned that:
> This will probably work, but it does seem like a lot of extra work ...  
> How about changing the order of printing?  Doing the lightest tone
> colours first should mean that transferring would be minimized, and
> wouldn't affect the outcome much.

I've seen Seki-san, a professional printer here in Tokyo, do this
intermediate drying.  He was working with a key block that had to be
printed with a very dark and sticky black, and was having transfer
problems onto the colour blocks.  He dried the entire batch of 200
sheets, waited a day or so, and then remoistened and continued ... with
no problems.

Dave

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End of Baren Digest V6 #434
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