[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest              Saturday, 28 August 1999      Volume 08 : Number 681

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:10:53 -0700
Subject: [Baren 5467] Suggestion.

>That means that Exchange #4 (the 'Self-Portrait' Exchange) is now
>'activated', and the deadline is set for November 27.

We leave to catch the 7am Ferry in a few moments, but wanted to suggest that
this is terribly close to Exchange # 3 which if my memory serves is Nov 3 or 7

I suggest we move it back to Jan. 00.
I see no need to rush into this.

Graham

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From: "Jeanne N. Chase" <studiojnc@prodigy.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:35:52 -0400
Subject: [Baren 5468] Re: Vision

Dear Ray
You make a lot of sense and I agree totally with you that we all have our
own style, temperamen.t, Some work in oils, some in watercolors. Some are
better at carving than design, etc, etc.I do not want to sound negative but
this project sounds a little too ambitious as we are in all corners of the
world and cannot get together like (as you said) the printers, designers,
carvers in Japan did when they did their collaborative prints.
I also love your
VISION of perhaps selecting a book of poetry and doing a woodblock .
Everyone could be assigned a page. What a wonderful book that would
make!!!!!!
That is a project I could really love to do.

Jeanne

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From: John Ryrie <j.ryrie@pgrad.unimelb.edu.au>
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 01:03:17 +1000
Subject: [Baren 5469] Re:colabrative=

Ray I've seen this book.
I have come across a web  Page of resent Haiku somewhere in my surfing but
can't remember where.   When I was studying Sumi one of my teacher introduced
me to Hauga I think that is the spelling .  this is a very quick painting done
in response to a peace of Hiku .  This wont be for every one but I think it
would be interesting to apply this to wood block.   You read the poem and
without thinking carve  the first image that comes into your head. 

I'm kicking my self  if I had Know that the self portrait exchange would fill
up so soon I could have order the two slip cases with the same cheque and saved
$10 in bank fees.

someone mentioned back there many emails ago of making a Baren out of the
chines straw doilys. They are what I used for years , just as They came.  
they were so cheep that you could through them away as they wore out. 
they were reay good for my
biger prints.

John Ryrie

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From: Vollmer/Yamaguchi <jy6@columbia.edu>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:10:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Baren 5470] Like the Marines

Too soon for exchange #5! It filled up so fast, I thought we'd have more
time !  It's almost simultaneous with #4! I sort of thought they would be
more spread out I would like to participate in more of them, but there are
so many, so fast. I'm a slow worker. Maybe it's good to get the stuff out,
but I'd consider giving more time so people could work out more ambitious
work, more colors, etc. Plus it takes time to ship and post them on the
internet, comment on them all. I'd rather have fewer, better prints with
time to think about them. Not that I'm backing out, I can handle it, just a
thought.

I think Bea is still travelling, but she promised to write up the Horizons
woodcut class in more detail to add to the
http://woodblock.com/forum/activities/activity_frame.html .  Barbara
(Hearn) is still recuperating, she worked hard! Seven students, with
various backgrounds worked for a week in beautiful Williamsburg, MA. I
think I made them all work harder than they expected, there was lots to do
in a week, cutting and printing a 2 to 6 color woodblock...Bea's had the
most colors. Blocks were all 8" x 10". But not as hard as Graham did, I
didn't recover barens or tack down sharkskins!

April Vollmer

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From: Elizabeth Atwood <elizuno@midcoast.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:45:56 -0400
Subject: [Baren 5471] Re: Suggestion.

I would like to second Graham's suggestion about the #4
deadline........sometime in January would be much better.
I dropped out of #3 because of the time conflict. I would feel very sad to
miss another one.
ElizA

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From: Elizabeth Atwood <elizuno@midcoast.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:38:38 -0400
Subject: [Baren 5472] A few things

We made a fun trip up the coast yesterday to Southwest Harbor, Maine
stopping in at the Wendell Gilley Gallery........to see Matt Brown's hanga
demonstration and, of course, to meet him. He had an audience of interested
persons whom he easily charmed....and informed. What a spokesman for
woodblock! My husband was so intrigued with Matt's handling of his
materials that he can no longer understand my use of oilbase. Another
convert for your side!
The museum is devoted to bird carvings. They had on exhibit a Abby Aldrich
Rockefeller bird and flower print collection of the ukiyo-e genre by Ando
Hiroshige.....delightful. (I would say that Matt was the frosting on the
cake for a very appreciative audience.) Sadly, we missed his later lecture
on the Hiroshige prints.
I have only a simple camera but I took several pictures of Matt at work and
will send whatever I have along to you, Dave.......within a week.....I hope.

There have been more words and ideas put forth about the possible
collaboration print exchange than I can begin to digest. (It takes most of
my alloted computer time just to read the postings.)
Sounds like fun...but nigh impossible to bring together the water and oil.
AND registration methods? I would tend to agree with whoever said that it
could only work well with those in close proximity.....geographically or
philosophically. My daughter, the poet, does some very successful
collaboration with her poetry......sometimes by way of e-mail. But, alas,
that will not work for us.

Welcome Liz and Brian........hope Dave is able to get more members to speak
up in the forum.

ElizA

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From: Wanda Robertson <robertson@canby.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:42:42 -0700
Subject: [Baren 5473] Re: collaborative accidents

Well, at the risk of getting my foot evenly more firmly wedged into my
mouth - let me give you a view of what I had envisioned as a
collaborative effort of Baren:

As someone mentioned the game of "gossip", each person on the list
(perhaps a smaller list of participants would be less cumbersome for
this one) would prepare a drawing that would (in their eyes) make a good
block print. Then this drawing would be sent on to the next person on
the list, that person would carve the block/blocks (perhaps limited to a
certain # of blocks or even 1 block?) The block/blocks to be sent onto
the next person on the list to be printed by that person. So each person
would create a drawing, carve a block, print a woodblock print - ink
*or* waterbase, whatever that person wants to use. This way each person
on the list would be doing all three parts - communication could be
encouraged or discouraged - I personally think the results would be
fascinating. As all of the suggestions so far have been!

Of course, not everyone would want to do this - and that is perfectly
understandable to me. Well, and to all of YOU also. But, hasn't it
brought up some amazing ideas? Very stimulating ideas, IMHO! Thanks for
stirring up the brain cells, guys!

Back to my "cut & print" - oh my, 2 deadlines on top of each other!=20

Wanda

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From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:08:11 -0500
Subject: [Baren 5474] Re: Exchange photos

If you have not had a chance to view the exchange #2 prints online, I encourage
you to do so. Perhaps I missed the posting since I was away, but the biggest
surprise was Dave's detailed photo/essay on "how I made my print". This is the
best and to-the-point description & photos  I have seen (and I have gone thru
dozens of Hanga books).  Those of you tinkering with water, please give it a
look, it's worth a million words.

Thanks once again Dave for going the extra mile.........now...........how about
a how-to video ?  In english ?

Julio

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From: Shireen Holman <tholman@clark.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:32:04 -0400
Subject: [Baren 5475] collaboration=

hello everyone. i haven't written for a long time because i have been very 
busy. but now, i'm stuck! i had surgery on my hand (right one, and i'm 
right handed),so i can't work for a while. also can only type one-handed, 
which is why i'm not using caps. anyway, the discussion about collaboration 
is very interesting. several people have talked about wanting to be in 
control of the whole process of making a print. i agree to some extent. i 
want to be able to design, cut, and print my blocks. but i have worked 
collaboratively on my artist's books, and have found the process very 
exciting. for example, i am an absolute beginner when it comes to book 
binding. i had some idea of what i wanted to do with a book of mine, but 
when i consulted with a book artist, i changed my outlook completely. she 
looked at the type of paper i had made, and the woodcuts printed on it, and 
was able to suggest something which really complemented what i was trying 
to achieve. and i worked with a letterpress artist on the text - something 
i simply could not have done myself. sometimes, i think, if you limit 
yourself to only what one person can do (and no one person can be highly 
skilled at everything), you have to limit your creativity, or your 
ambitions. of course, one does have to be constantly limiting oneself, for 
financial or other reasons. just some thoughts.
shireen

Shireen Holman

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From: Pedrobot@aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:36:02 EDT
Subject: [Baren 5476] Re: collaboration

One of the things that got me thinking about collaboration is comic books.  I 
was explaining the ukiyo-e process (in what limited terms I understand it) 
and the closest parallel that I could think of was the process through which 
comic books are created.

Comic books are created for popular consumption, and all evidence to the 
contrary, are not considered any kind of fine art.  They are done in 
production-line style by highly skilled (hopefully...) artists and artisans.  
The first person is the penciller, who designs the layout draws the basic 
images in pencil.  The second person is the inker, who sharpens and finalizes 
the penciller's drawings into a clean, photo-ready, black and white image.  
The third person who gets their hands on the piece is the colorist, who  
(surprise surprise) colors the image.  Finally, the page goes to a letterer, 
who provides the word balloons, sound effects, and text.  

Generally these people have limited contact with one another, so in many ways 
it is a collaborative effort much like what we have been talking about.  The 
more I think about it, the more it reminds me of printing.  

The point of my rambling is that there is at least one example of this kind 
of work still going on, and happening in western culture (not to even for a 
second forget the brilliant work done by Japanese and other comic artists).

--Pete

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From: arafat alnaim <ar_alnaim@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:16:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 5477] collaboration idea

Welcome to new members

Since we got some talented artists who has experience on artists books
like Shireen Holman why not we start making a collaborative art book or
this could be an idea for the a next exchange. Any ideas on this filed
are welcomed.

>Jean wrote
>The design is enlarged and divided up into 30 rectangles. Each 
>participant is given one of the rectangles to cut and print in their
> own inimitable style. (Should the printing be done full-bleed, i.e.
>printed all the way to the edges of the paper?) The organizer receives
>the prints when done and redistributes them in beautiful portfolio
>covers.

 Dear Jean,
 I liked what you wrote about collaboration and I think it's the most
suitable thing to get together artists from different parts of the
world on a collaborative project. The divided rectangles designs could
be sent by e-mail.

Arafat Al-Naim

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From: Pedrobot@aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:36:46 EDT
Subject: [Baren 5478] Re: collaboration idea

> why not we start making a collaborative art book or
>this could be an idea for the a next exchange. Any ideas on this filed
> are welcomed. 

What about taking a story, and doing illustrations for it?  A fully
illustrated copy of something, with thirty different prints detailing
different areas of the text...

- --Pete

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From: Barbara Mason <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:17:53 -0700
Subject: [Baren 5479] books to illustrate...

I really like the idea of 30 people illustrating something written, it
would truly be a collaboration, but not the way we were thinking. If we
kick this around a little more we are sure to come up with a way it will
work.

Dave, I too vote for the 4th exchange to end a little later, can we do
that without upsetting the apples and the cart?

Barbara

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From: John Ryrie <j.ryrie@pgrad.unimelb.edu.au>
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 11:43:36 +1000
Subject: [Baren 5480] Re: books=20

I do like the idea of a collaboration on a book.  The problem that  I see as a
binder is that for a book to work the paper has to be of the same type or it
becomes a nightmare for the binder and looks tacky wen finished.  
I think it would be hard to get consensus on paper types wen members use such
diverse methods .
 I think you would have to separate the oriental from the European method people 
for it to work.

John Ryrie

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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 14:12:59 +0900
Subject: [Baren 5481] Collaborations ...

Nice to see such a flood of interesting ideas on the possible
'collaboration' exchange ... more than we can possibly use this time
'round of course.  Whichever way we decide on this, I'm going to keep a
file of these ideas for future use, so please don't be too disappointed
if your particular suggestion doesn't make it through this time ...

Before we can make a decision on the actual format of this exchange, we
need to differentiate between two different concepts of what is being
considered here - _very_ different concepts.  Simplifiying somewhat,
they seem to break down like this:

(1) the 'toss the dice' approach. In these ideas, just what sort of
print(s) we end up with is a sort of random process.  There is little
(or no) communication between the people involved.  Blocks are passed
around not knowing what the next person will be 'up to', and the end
result is sort of an 'accumulation' of various peoples' work.

(2) the 'from each their best skills' approach.  In this case, people
who are good at designing do the design, good carvers carve, and good
printers print.  The end result is planned right from the the beginning,
with a lot of communication going on between the collaborators, and the
prints are a combination of 'best' skills.

Those of you who know me can certainly guess easily enough which way I
lean _personally_, but I'm not going to put on my dictator's hat here. I
look forward to more of your feedback.  Please note also that if we do
end up working with the groups of three/four/five people as proposed in
that first draft of this exchange, some groups could work 'randomly' and
others in a 'structured' way.  Instead of forming the groups
geographically, they should be formed of people who share a similar
'philosophy' on these points ...

(I would also like to mention that I very very much like this idea of
doing a book together.  An interesting text, with 30 full-page
illustrations, all bound together in a nice binding - yes!  It would
either have to be something new, perhaps written just for the group, or
a copyright-free old classic.  Maybe for Exchange #10?  Just _too many_
good ideas ...)

***

Re the comments on the deadline for Exchange #4.  I was _hoping_ that
there would be some interest in pushing this back a bit, as I too am
under rather a bit of pressure over the coming months.

So if I may indeed put my dictator's hat on for a minute, I would like
to accept Graham's suggestion of the end of the year as the deadline.

So, Exchange #3 is due on November 10th, Exchange #4 is due December 31.
You only have a century left to get it done!

***

I have yet to receive any emails about a coordinator for Exchange #4 ...

***

Pete wrote about comic book production:
>Generally these people have limited contact with one another,
>so in many ways it is a collaborative effort much like what
>we have been talking about.=20

The parallels with the Japanese ukiyo-e production are extremely close.
And although in both cases the workers may have had limited contact with
each other, they _did_ share a common vision of the finished product.

You need the individual 'geniuses' to break new ground and establish new
styles, but once a stylistic pattern is established, the 'minions' can
produce good work.

Dave

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From: "Andy English" <a.english@virgin.net>
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 08:46:14 +0100
Subject: [Baren 5482] Re: Vision

I have the additional problem of working in a very different style
(end-grain). When I have collaborated in the past, there have been hours of
friendly discussion as a group of us worked together. In any case, exchange
bundles are collaborative works.

Still... good luck to those who give it a go - I'm looking forward to
seeing the results.

Andy E

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End of Baren Digest V8 #681
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