[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Baren Digest Tuesday, 14 September 1999 Volume 08 : Number 705 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Graham Scholes Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:19:36 -0700 Subject: [Baren 5814] Re: the best paper in the world....... Julio... Jack's responce is your first lesson and step to learning. Do take advantage as it is well defined ..... and polite. After learning and practicing the technique, and becoming a believer in the tradition of Hanga, you will understand the Zen of the Sport. Graham ------------------------------ From: viscult@mich1.telmex.net.mx Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:40:39 -0500 Subject: [Baren 5815] Re: Baren Digest V8 #704 Julio: It must be funny to see you on your "pianno printing performance", perhaps you just invented a new "ism" PRINTPIANNISM?, JA.JA.JA. No, seriusly, of course I agree with what Jack says in the whole, but let's have in mind that art is basically human creativity, so in this way everything is allowed as long as it work for you. Is like in Mexico. Presses, rolls and almost all art meterials are expensive and not always affordable for artists, so you can find a lot of homemade tools, from knives to presses, blankets, etc. It, of course, doesn't mean you're dismissing the experience of centuries of, let's say, japanese in woodcuts, just that technologies (from very simple to electronical) are a reflex of the culture in which they have been created. ------------------------------ From: Maria Arango Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:49:42 -0700 Subject: [Baren 5820] thanks Dave >"Think of a boy with the stars in his eyes, Thanks, Dave, I needed that! Julio, mi hombre, have you gone mad? Tortilla shells? No words would come out of these Spanish, not Mexican, lips, or fingers. I might have said matador capes, or perhaps even castanets, or was it yucca-root peels? Lighten up everyone, before you get going on the path of hurtful comments. I think this is yet one more time when we have to remember that we all do different things for different reasons. One fascinating feature of the Baren is that we can learn so much from each other; no need for attacks or "mypaper's better than yourpaper." Geez! I say we all step over to the bar and handle this discussion over a glass of wine, or beer, or whateverthe hell everyone drinks or doesn't drink. Health to all (that includes stress-free existence), Maria ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:55:42 +0000 Subject: [Baren 5821] Re: Baren Digest V8 #704 viscult@mich1.telmex.net.mx wrote: >...you can find a lot of homemade tools, from > knives to presses, blankets, etc...technologies (from very simple to > electronical) are a reflex of > the culture in which they have been created. I couldn't agree more. Anyone is free to use any tools they want, and this does not diminish the culture that started the tradition that you use as your starting point. I myself have been struggling with a good serviceable substitute for a traditional Japanese baren, but I realize that it will be a - -substitute-, not an improvement. I am going to the trouble because I like the idea of having a variety of baren strengths to print with, which would be very expensive with traditional Japanese barens. Combining and adapting different technologies can be very creative, but if a more traditional result is what you are aiming for, then the traditional tools cannot likely be improved upon. Jack ------------------------------ From: John Ryrie Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:16:51 +1000 Subject: [Baren 5823] Re: Baren Digest V8 #704 Jack said: >if a more traditional result is what >you are aiming for, then the traditional tools cannot likely be improved upon. I agree I am a member of a Bookbinding Guild where the same discussion goes on. There are binders who use the same materials and techniques that have been used for hundreds of years. Though I have a much freer approach to binding I understand their point of view. These techniques ( as I think would be the case with traditional Japanese printing) developed to the level of perfection that they did because that was the method that everybody used. If printing with a Baren was still the only way to print the technologies would have followed and the machine made do-hikis and molded plastic thing-a-ma-jigs would be have some use. But the development stopped when the wen the process stopped being an industry of the many and became a craft of the few. And with Renaissance Bookbinding as with Japanese woodblock printing it stopped at a very high point indeed. Just take a look at Maria's prise now displayed on her home page as proof. I have a 1938 Gibson Guitar, with all the technology in the world no one could make an interment of that quality today. technology dose not = progress. When I said that Eric Gill's wittings on religion, morals and society where fairly unreadable, this is an example of the very sort of rubbish he might have written. John Ryrie ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:16:46 +0000 Subject: [Baren 5824] Re: thanks Dave > I think this is yet one more time when we have to remember > that we all do different things for different reasons. One fascinating > feature of the Baren is that we can learn so much from each other; no > need for attacks or "mypaper's better than yourpaper." There is no doubt that there is as much room for different approaches as there are kinds of paper out there. In the recent past several people have made some very useful suggestions as to what worked well for them. I think it would be a good idea if anyone that is interested to try all different kinds of papers to see what -they- like for their own particular techniques. On the other hand, it is true that for certain techniques, certain papers have qualities that will probably work better than others. As my Iaido teacher would say, "You did everything perfectly, but there are several things you could do more perfectly". Jack ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:29:06 +0000 Subject: [Baren 5825] Re: Baren Digest V8 #704 > this is an example of the very sort of rubbish he > might have written. Not rubbish at all, I agree. We get a little too smug in believing that we can improve on earlier peoples skills with our "vastly superior modern technologies". In my line of work, I quite regularly see examples of marvelous old technologies that cannot be replicated today, let alone improved upon. I especially agree on your point with the '38 Gibson. Jack ------------------------------ From: Gregory Robison Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:58:25 +0300 Subject: [Baren 5826] Printing with cars > I think that there should be a section in the Baren Encyclopediadevoted to printing > with cars. There is a big advantage in this method. There are even more advantages than you think. Tires themselves contain a carbon black die, and being a largely natural (processed latex from rubber trees) product without grain, can be carved at will. (As you know, in the wild state they are found with natural 'carved' markings a bit like Maria's colophon.) This means that they are, in effect, pre-inked, cylindrical printing plates. Impression is traditionally done by rapid deceleration across the receiving medium -- driveway, by-pass, interstate, etc. For more than a year I had a series of such prints displayed on an on-ramp near Sacramento, California. I didn't win any awards, but I did get a citation. Gregory Robison ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V8 #705 ***************************