[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest            Thursday, 30 September 1999    Volume 08 : Number 724

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From: Shireen Holman <shireenh@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:15:58 -0400
Subject: [Baren 6033] Re: Pyramid Atlantic 

April wrote:
>I met Shireen Holman there, and saw her incredible book. 

Thank you, April, for your kind comments. I was very pleased to meet April 
at Pyramid, and I'm glad I got to watch the printing process even though I 
wasn't able to take the workshop. It really makes a difference to see it 
done when all you've done so far is read about it. All the other 
participants really enjoyed the workshop and said they had learned a lot 
and worked a lot! When I've finished with the book I'm working on now, I'm 
definitely going to try a hanga print.

Shireen

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From: (Heather Smith <heather@larkbooks.com>)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:30:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Baren 6034] Re: new book 

Message posted by: Heather Smith <heather@larkbooks.com>

        No our books are not free, but we struggle to keep them affordable.
Again, I encourage you to do more research with regard to our policies and
history of working with artists. We are a small company and have worked
hard to establish ourselves as a quality book publisher. We ALWAYS give
full credit to artists featured in our books, and they retain all rights to
their works and visuals. These policies are in writing, and we send copies
of our artist agreement for signature to all who participate. I respect
your concern and the thoughtful advice that you are spreading to the
community, but again, I emplore you to learn more about our history before
assuming we are the greedy book barron you assume us to be. We are always
happy to answer any questions, concerns, or doubts you may have at any time.

Best,

Heather Smith

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From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:38:40 -0500
Subject: [Baren 6035] Re: new book 

Ok......this thing with the book and the profits have caught my curiosity. If
you take a hypothetical example. Fifty artists send in prints for publication on
a book. If each artist gets a very conservative 1/2 percentage (that's .5%) that
means the whole artist group would get 25% of the total profits ? Somehow I
don't think that would be acceptable to a publisher.

If the book sells for $30.00 (forget about discount shops for now)  and 10,000
copies are printed/sold....that means the artist group would receive....$7,500
with each artist receiving a check for.....$150. Ok, food money. Now let's say
the book sells 100,000 copies.....then each artist would receive in the long run
$1500...right ? Is my math thinking correct ?

Would perhaps the publisher in return for contributions and as payment  agree to
send each artist a copy of the book gratis....or is that always included as part
of the agreement ?

Julio $$$$$${:-) $$$$$$$

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From: "Philip Smith" <smithart@pacifier.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:54:29 -0700
Subject: [Baren 6036] Re: new book

I'm sorry to have to write another note about "free art",....I know I'm not
making life easy for the Lark Pub, people,....but just a question....does
Lark, or any other pub. pay for printing? Pay for photography? Do they get
writers to write for free? I think not! When I do an illustration does it
bother me if the company is small or large? Price is the same! When you go
to buy a car do you tell the dealer you're poor, hoping he'll give you one
free? I have several Lark books and they do turn out a good product,...but
for a profit!!!! THEY ARE IN BUSINESS!!!! and ALL of our efforts have value,
as does our time,......the next time you go to  work, those of us who still
do 9 to 5,..tell your boss you don't need to get paid,............right!!!!!
Good luck,.......

Philip

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From: Maria Arango <Maria@mariarango.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:12:34 -0700
Subject: [Baren 6037] I beg to differ 

I have a lot of respect for you as an artist, Graham, but I beg to
differ on the Lark Books issue. You certainly have the right to your
opinion and I just hope Ms. Smith does not think that you spoke for the
entire group and still regards our submissions fairly.
I will share an analogous situation:
I recently had a booth an outdoor art fair, which, by all objective
assessment, was poorly attended both by artists and by audience. While I
sat and whittled at my tiny blocks, demonstrating to passersby (many of
them children) the art of woodblock printmaking, other artists
complained outloud about the organizers of the event, the lack of
advertising, the abuse that "the poooooor patheeeeetic artist" was being
subjected to day in and day out.
"They expect us to give our art away" "That gallery is a sweatshop" blah
blah blah bore me to tears.
I sat and cut, inked and printed and sold my tiny prints for $10 a piece
(22 of them in 2 days). While the artists whined and protested, I gave
away over 200 business cards and 130some pamphlets on woodblock
printmaking, all with my phone and website on them. A gallery has
already called for a group show, another suggested a possible solo once
I get more rats drawn. Gotta love those ratas.
Over 300 people signed my guestbook and loved the thought of an open
studio closer to Christmas. I made six more sales at the site (280) and
three more over the web in these last two days resulting from the
show(240). Is anyone adding this up? I'm not too good at math.
While the artists pouted and packed their stuff and didn't show up on
Sunday, I met the mayor of Las Vegas and his art-loving wife, the former
Lieutenant Governor, and did a demo in front of the camera for a
publicity company that will put together a video to promote the event
for next year. Forgot, I got my name on the Latino Directory of LV and
chatted about web-sites with a design company that is expanding their
services in that area but has no designer as of yet. Sat and
whittled...I'll be there next year too.
Maybe the Lark Books deal will pan out, maybe it won't. I'm gathering up
my entries right now--nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Dave, maybe this post should also go to Ms. Smith?
Health to all,

Maria

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From: "Jeanne N. Chase" <studiojnc@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:07:30 -0400
Subject: [Baren 6038] Re: I beg to differ 

Maria's story reminded me of the book that has been very popular these days.
It is called "Open Studio". It is a competition and has four books out per
year, dividing up the US into the South, West, North and East, whatever.
 It is a beautiful book. They do not pay the artist's. It is not a vanity
book, but has wide publicity and the reproductions of the artist's work is
very well done.
 I gathered up my courage and spent a lot of time photographing my work,
writing my bio , etc. I was selected for their first publication about 4
years ago.
 Believe it or not I am still getting action from the book.
I sold one of the paintings reproduced, for a goodly sum and have had lots
of interest in my work plus a gallery solo show.
When you do not have the time or money to hire an agent, you have to do what
you have to do.
Another gratis book I was in was called Artist's and Their Cats. It was sold
in the National Gallery in DC and I also got a few calls on that one.
 I call this free publicity and I am happy to put in a couple of hours
putting together a few slides, for a 33 cent stamp.

Jeanne

My ten cents worth.

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From: Jack Reisland <reislandj001@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:52:05 -1000
Subject: [Baren 6039] Re: new book 

After reading several well thought out postings on the "new book" it
seems that they all boil down to a difference in values between exposure
and payment . I also notice a division between those artists that are
well established, and already have exposure, and those that may not have
had as much exposure. It is a very fine thing to be able to demand
payment for the use of your work as an artist, but it is also
unfortunately true that there is a lot of competition between artists
for financial recognition in our society that has a rather limited
demand for original art. I understand your point, Philip, and wish that
more Baren members could be in your enviable position, but art is not
exactly cars. I doubt that there are very many auto workers that start
work at the plant for the shear love of working on the assembly line,
and keep at it for years, struggling to find time, until some day some
one recognizes their good work and decides to pay them.
    Perhaps it would be interesting and instructive if Baren members
posted their past experiences on breaking into the art market. Maria's
posting was a very good start. Philip, what did you do to get
recognized? Graham, how did you begin to sell, and what did you do to
build on sales? Anyone else have some good experiences to tell? And what
absolutely didn't work?

Jack

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:19:38 -0700
Subject: [Baren 6040] Re: new book 

Julio,

I am not talking mathematics.....
Principle and educating ..... that visual artist are not FREE.

Graham

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:50:40 -0700
Subject: [Baren 6042] Re: I beg to differ 

Maria,

What you have done is what I call marketing. I still do this and as boring
and tiring as it is, it is an important tool.  I recomment this method to
all who handle there own marketing and advertising.
You had definite and good results for your effort.  Dealing with a
publisher I dare say will not return anything like your hands on experience.

This should not be confused with giving away, for free, you work.

If you go with a publisher who want free material then go with open mind
and understand that you don't have to.  If we all stick together we can
change the situation.

Point in Fact..... There is a heavy demand on artist around Victoria to
donate to charitable organizations, as there is in most urban areas.  I use
to get about 12 to 15 a year.  I gave to most and endeavoured to keep tabs
on the results of this Exposure claim.  I could never see any direct
benefits.
Now I won't do this unless my name appears on all advertising with the
event.  And you know what.... hardly an artist in Victoria will contribute
unless they get the same deal.  Results, our name appears in newspapers and
television advertising.  It took 5 years for this to be come the standard
and we the artists are not the soft touch around anymore.

Jack wrote....
>    Perhaps it would be interesting and instructive if Baren members
>posted their past experiences on breaking into the art market. 

Good posting Jack...
I will respond, but want to take time to recall and detail it properly.
Heavy into catch up printing just now.

Graham

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:06:10 -0700
Subject: [Baren 6044] Re: I beg to differ 

April wrote....
>Maria's story reminded me of the book that has been very popular these days.
>It is called "Open Studio". It is a competition and has four books out per
>year, dividing up the US into the South, West, North and East, whatever.

This sound like a who's who book in the arts field and certainly these are
most important to be represented there.   We have had some of them
published up here and tough as hell to get into them.
The events of the last year might.....might qualify me for inclusion.  One
can only hope.

Know what the publisher is creating and know that it is a legit publication
that will help to esculate your profile.  Lark books sure does not sound
like the kind of book April has mentioned.

Graham

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From: "Philip Smith" <smithart@pacifier.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:51:49 -0700
Subject: [Baren 6045] Re: new book 

Jack asked for a resume':

Okay here goes, ...I have never had another kind of job other than drawing
pictures,...never struggled at anything to support my art,...I just wanted
and still need to do it so much that I can't,...almost help myself,...when I
was in London 12 years ago I saw the really wonderful work of true artists
in the British Watercolour Show,..I do illustration,...I'm like one of those
actors you've seen for years on the silver screen,
 but no one knows your name,.....I still have to hussle for jobs each and
everyday,...I do mostly kids books and magazines,...it's not my first
choice, but there is a market there,...prior to freelancing for some 33
years I worked in a few ad agencies, at Hallmark Cards, Aerojet General,
Boeing, had job offers from Disney and Don Bluth Studios [which I turned
down because of the restictions of one sort or another, and of course they
were 9 to 5]..Today I send out mailers, mostly post cards,...I think if one
had half a brain you'd be far more practical than I have been and do
somethin else..BUT,..you have to keep trying,...someone wrote she didn't
mind donating a couple of hours to Lark Pub....Lark is not the Lone Ranger
in this respect,......the old exposure ploy,....I say sell your
goods,....and if you are only spending a couple of hours on a
woodcut,....please,...I've already done 4 woodcuts for exchange #4,...I need
to do another one,.....and it's taken me more than 2 hours,....There are
Heathers everywhere out there with their big hooks waiting for shy little
artists to devour,...who was that lady that Hansel and Gretal
met????....>Maria said she was selling her work for $10 bucks,...I say
great!!!!!..just don't give it away to strangers,...You want exposure,..call
up the editor of the local newspaper, do a little pow-wow,..I did this once
and got on the cover of the weekend suppliment,...lots of calls and letters
followed,...!!!
You want to be in a book,..write your own, put a package together with your
work and submit it to a publisher AND get paid for your
efforts!!!..Anyway,......chapter ll  later this week,....Be good...   

Philip

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From: "Philip Smith" <smithart@pacifier.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:08:30 -0700
Subject: [Baren 6046] 

There's a guy named Tom at Duckhunter77.com that has a started 
woodcarving set of 12 for $6.99 and a sharpen stone for $13.50 + 
s/h,....quality is probly not the highest,..but if you'er just starting 
and just learning about tools, you might look at this sight.     

 Philip

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End of Baren Digest V8 #724
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