[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest             Saturday, 27 November 1999     Volume 09 : Number 798

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From: Cucamongie@aol.com
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:12:44 EST
Subject: [Baren 6824] Paper, etc 

Josephine, you must check out Dieu Donne paper mill if you feel like 
traveling to NYC sometime - I have interned there off and on for several 
years, and they always had people coming in from different countries, working 
on special paper projects, etc.  They're very knowledgeable, as well as being 
terrific, nice folks.  You can email them at ddpaper@cybernex.net, tell them 
I sent you (Sarah Hauser), the email address is a general one, you can 
address the email to MIna Takahashi.  I'll have to try your recycling paper 
methods sometime.  One way to make a mould & deckle that's pretty cheap is to 
get stretcher bars in whatever size you want to work in, put them together & 
coat them w/some type of sealer so the water doesn't get inside, & attach 
wire mesh which you can get at a hardware store - you can also make a 
japanese-style mould & deckle - I've done it at Dieu donne but I forget all 
the materials, you can ask them if you like.  
As for using stonehenge or bfk, if you're doing woodblock in the Japanese 
method, these are sort of OK for proofing but I'm finding that even for 
proofing it's better to use an inexpensive Japanese paper or something else 
more similar to the good stuff, like the shin-torinoko.  You just have to 
press too hard or do multiple passes w/a color if you're doing anything other 
than quite small areas.  Of course these papers work fine for oil-based work.
Sorry this is a bit long once I get going about paper, well.....
best to all,

Sarah

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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 00:13:16 +0900
Subject: [Baren 6825] Happy Birthday ... 

Here we are - November 27th ... time to celebrate the big holiday this
week!  Thanksgiving?  No, not _that_ - the _big_ holiday - Happy
Birthday to [Baren] ... we're two years old today!

So is this the occasion for Dave to reminisce a bit about the 'good old
days' back at the beginning of [Baren]?  Nope, I don't think I'll do
that.  What I _would_ like to do is share some of my thoughts about 'how
we are doing' and 'where we go from here' ...

For the 'how we are doing' part, I think I can guess what many of you
will say; after all, not a week or so goes by on the forum without
somebody coming out with 'This forum is _so_ neat', or something like
that.  It does seem that we have developed a little 'community' here,
and reading your [Baren] mail is apparently one of the high points of
the day for many of you.  

In a specifically practical sense also, the forum seems to be working
well; members _do_ seem to be exchanging 'hard' information - where to
get supplies, the details of some particular technique, etc. etc.  The
Encyclopedia has continued to grow during this past year, gradually
offering more real information on the craft of printmaking.

The Exchange program too, is a success by any measure.  Here we have a
collection of _real_ prints, not just hot air, and prints that would
never have come into being had this forum not existed.  By that measure
alone, [Baren] has proved its worth ...

Another thing that has been very gratifying for me is to see the growing
amount of physical contact between [Baren] members. Stop blushing - I
just mean that I'm hearing more and more about get-togethers happening
here and there all over the place.  From major events such as Graham's
workshops, right down to personal visits like my recent trip to Matt's
place ... most of these contacts would not have happened without
[Baren].  

So 'how are we doing?'   Just great, thank you!


As for the 'where do we go from here', it's difficult to know where to
start - there are so many things to mention ...


** With just around 125 members now, about evenly split between
contributors and lurkers, we have a pretty good level of membership. 
This number is on a constant climb though, and I have given considerable
thought to what happens when the number of daily postings increases to
the point where there is just more mail than most people want to try and
keep track of.  

There _are_ other ways of communication between each other - bulletin
boards and 'conference' message posting systems, among others - but none
of those seems to be able to develop and maintain the feeling of group
membership that an email list creates.  I suppose that if we get too big
the only solution at that point would be to split into smaller groups of
specialized interest - strict Japanese traditionalists, oil-based press
printing, etc..  

The image I have in mind, and I've talked about this before with you, is
of [Baren] as a 'Convention of Woodblock Printmakers' ... but a
convention in cyberspace, not in a hotel somewhere.  You know how
conventions work ... you register at a table at the front and get your
program.  Leafing through it you see that there are sessions going on
all over the place: one over here in this room on Japanese traditional
work, one over there in that room titled 'Pressing Matters' ... another
one further down the hall on marketing and exhibiting your work ... 
Some of these are of great interest to you, some less so.  But unlike a
'hotel-type' convention where you can only be in one room at a time,
here in cyberspace you can attend more than one ... (_and_ you can be in
the bar all the time, to catch up on all the 'chat' ...)  After a while
you wander off into the Exhibit Hall to see what sort of new work your
friends have produced recently, and maybe you register for one of the
Exchanges ...

You see my image I hope.  Actually, we're not too far away from this
just the way we're running now, with our two lists backed up by a
comprehensive website.  But at the moment 'all' the sessions are happening
in the one main room. The big question in my mind is when and how we
should split off into specialized sub-groups. It seems though, that we
haven't reached that point yet, as our volume, although occasionally a
bit high, isn't so far unmanageable ...  


** One area where I do feel that we have completely missed the boat is
in showing the wider world just how active and alive woodblock
printmaking really is.  I tried to get something going here by starting
the 'Events and Activities' section on the web site:
http://woodblock.com/forum/activities/activity_frame.html
... but the response from you was an almost total lack of interest.  I
am not ready to give up on this though, and will try and remind you more
often to submit your 'reports' and photographs for inclusion on that
page - which should I think, be one of the largest and most eagerly read
sections of the web site.  _Every_ time any of you have any kind of
exhibition, get-together or workshop, I should find a report on it in my
email Inbox the next morning, along with photographs as soon as they are
available. If you give me a simple and concise report, and a couple of
interesting photographs, updating the pages would be no more than a few
minutes work for me.

If all of you were to conscientiously do that for say, the next year, we
would be able to give people an incredible sense that woodblock
printmaking is not only still alive, but is a vital and important part
of the contemporary art scene.  

(I can guess your objection to this - those of you who are involved with
interesting activities don't have time for this, and those of you with
time on your hands aren't doing anything interesting ... Catch 22!) 


** Our video and book 'pass around' program is a dismal failure, for the
simple reason that almost every single person who has been on these
lists has sat on the tape (or book) for _months_ at a time, instead of
promptly passing it on to the next in line.  I'm quite disappointed in
this, because I felt that this could have really been a useful way for
us to 'share' experiences (and not just because the current videos being
passed around are about me!).  It's time to dump this, or sort out a way
to organize it properly.  (I tried, with a web page to keep track of the
items, but failed here too, because almost nobody bothered to send me
updated info ...)


** 'Swap Shop'.  A while back Pete set up a 'mini' exchange for the
dragon new year card that some of you wanted to make, and the good
response to this endeavour shows us another untapped area.  I considered
a while ago setting up some 'Swap Shop' web pages on which members could
feature some of their prints with the idea of encouraging trading
between each other.  Many of you have made the comment that your prints
are useless as long as they sit in your own drawers ...  

There could perhaps be difficulties with this, with the different
'value' that group members put on their prints (pros vs amateurs, etc.),
but surely there must be some way to figure it out ... getting prints
exchanged with other members should be something that goes on all the
time - not just when an organized [Baren] Exchange is taking place. 
(Horacio, I want some of your prints!  Want to swap some with me?)


** Another place that we are missing out is in the failure to use our
'group buying power'. The craftsman's association here in Tokyo uses
(used ...) their combined weight to order supplies and tools in bulk for
distribution to members (knife blades, etc.).  Considering how much
trouble all you 'merricans seem to have with finding supplies, this
seems like an obvious thing to think about doing together. 

(But just as I was preparing this letter for you, a posting came in the
other day with a mention of some interesting horsehair printing brushes
- - including the information that they were available in 'bulk'
quantities at very reasonable prices.  This seems like maybe a good
chance to get something started, so this afternoon I put up a new
section on the web site as a sample of what we might be able to do in
this area:  

http://woodblock.com/forum/supplies/

Your feedback (and a volunteer - ideally somebody who lives near the
place that makes these brushes) are eagerly awaited ...)


** It's also time to start thinking about whether or not we should
switch over completely to an HTML formatted email system.  We've had a
fair amount of HTML email sent in recently, and although it works for
many subscribers, for those who get the Digest it is a royal pain in the
neck.  But that problem could be eliminated if I switched to different
software for distributing the list ...

There would be a few advantages to a new format:
- - much more attractive messages
- - inclusion of small images directly in the message itself
- - messages could include interactive reply elements (like the forms I
use to get your exchange info, etc.), so you could send such information
immediately directly from within your email program, without going over
to the web site.

The only real disadvantage is that members with older email programs
would not be able to 'see' the formatting or images, nor could they use
the interactive elements.  Surely though, most of you now have modern
email programs (Outlook Express, Netscape Communicator, Eudora, etc.)
... yesno?

(If you want to see a sample of what such future messages could look
like, drop me a line (off-list) and I'll send you one ...  I can't send
it to everybody now, as sending HTML is 'against the rules' because of
the way it messes up the Digest!)  :-)


** I kept back the biggest item on the 'wish list' for the last.  This
past spring, with the beginning of my Surimono Albums series, I started
to use my own personal web site in a 'commercial' way - by putting a
subscription form on one of the pages. The experiment was very
successful, and has altered the balance of my subscribers from being
overwhelmingly Japanese, to one where about one fifth of my prints each
month now go overseas (and the proportion is rising steadily). I'm not
trying to beat my own drum here, but just to point out that this shows
us that the Internet _can_ indeed play a role in the business aspect of
our work.  It seems obvious that somehow, this group should be able to
find a way to collectively take advantage of this incredible
opportunity. 

Simply opening 'The [Baren] Print Shop' on the web site - with images
and prices - wouldn't really be the answer, as I think the success of my
own pages is due to much more than the simple display of the prints. 
But here we are, a bunch of computer-literate printmakers ... and here
is the 'net ... and if we don't start to use it sensibly to build our
business, we _deserve_ to starve to death!

***

I think though, that this is enough 'food for thought' for the moment. 
Presumably, many of _you_ also have interesting ideas for the future
growth and development of [Baren] ...  

But before I sit down and let you get back to your birthday cake in
peace, I would like to add one more important thing - that from here on,
I would like to start delegating more of the [Baren] activities out to
the members (the way that we do with the Exchange coordination). Trying
to do everything myself simply means that things aren't getting done. 
Even such simple things as keeping the 'Who is Baren?' section
up-to-date, and the daily chore of updating the Archives, have
consistently slipped behind 'schedule' recently.  

My personal schedule this year has been a daily morning-to-night parade
of non-stop printmaking work. I'm not complaining - I'm enjoying the
life I've created for myself (and I get a pretty good hit of
satisfaction at being pretty successful at this) - but I do think that I
have to start to be a bit more sensible about things, and cut back on
some of the 'non-essentials' ... or at least avoid taking on any more!

So for those things on my 'wish list' (and of course any others that you
come up with), if you want to see some of them developed, please try and
think about how during this coming year _you_ can perhaps actively
participate in such development.  

***

Thanks, gang - for an enjoyable and productive year!  Kampai!

Dave


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From: Bella1yopp@aol.com
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 12:08:26 EST
Subject: [Baren 6826] Re: Paper 

We were uni students living in a treehouse. No money for electrical
appliances, almost no money for electrickery. You soak the paper in
water in a bucket overnight. Then beat with whisk, not recommanded if
you can use a blender. Blender is heaven in comparison. Proportions
about 5% paper to 95% water in blender, if it is labouring then need
more water, less pulp. No, whisk is not like hollander, its just bloody
hard work!

What I meant was the motion of the whisk beater was more like the hollander.  
But I have never used a whisk... sad but true.  For obvious concerns a 
blender is not like a hollander.  Since I am spoiled I am used to making a 
couple of pounds of pulp at once.  The beater just chops the fibers and a 
hollander separates the fibers (your paper will be much stronger).  

> I am hoping for a school with papermaking facilities.  
> Does anyone know of any?

So far I have the Univ. of Wisconsin, Madison and the Univ of Georgia.

>I suggest you join one of the paper discussion groups mentioned on my
>paper page. 

What is the address?  I did join a discussion group on paper over the summer 
and since I am not currently making paper (nor was I in the summer) it was 
hard to be part of that discussion group.  But I collected some information, 
for future reference.  
That's okay, Josephine, maybe in a few years I will take a trip to Aus.  
Right now I am just saving up for the trip to gradschool next fall (with a 
few fun stops on the way)

>When I took paper making classes many years ago, they had a paper making
>lab at Arizona State University, maybe they still do.

Jack, they do have great paper making facilities.  I just graduated from Univ 
of Arizona and am looking for something more on the east coast and even 
further west.  I did send for a catalog and I have seen their printmaking 
facilities.  Thank you for the suggestion!
- -Amanda

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From: Pedrobot@aol.com
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 15:10:16 EST
Subject: [Baren 6828] Birthday Presents 

Just a note to mention how excited I am...

I have been on the hunt for books on/about/featuring reproductions of 
Japanese prints for some months now.  However, with my extremely limited 
student budget, this has been nearly impossible.

Enter my birthday, and two new (well, actually rather old) books.

One called "The Osaka Woodcuts" published by Spring Books of London.  I 
haven't had a chance to read it yet, but it looks really amazing.  The 
publishing date is not included.

The second is a copy of "Hokusai- The Man Mad-on-Drawing" printed in 
Czecheslovakia, again with no date.

Needless to say, I'm pretty excited.

- --Pete

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From: Jack Reisland <reislandj001@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:31:38 -1000
Subject: [Baren 6829] Re: Happy Birthday ... 

As I wrote to Dave off line, since I had made the initial contact with the
two companies I will pull out my few Japanese brushes for compairison, and
make some follow up calls to get some quotes for different sizes. Then,
depending on the intrest, and the companies methods of shipping, maybe it
will make more sense to turn it over to someone on the Mainland to actually
receive and distribute them.

Jack

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From: arafat alnaim <ar_alnaim@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 14:01:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 6831] Birthday  

Dear Barens,
I would like to greet you all on the occasion of tow
years since the founding of this wonderful Woodblock
site. 
Be sure that IÕm really happy to be member of a group
of artists whose concepts and artistic influence are
ever growing.
I hope that after I complete my PhD thesis and project
to have an extra time to spend on mutual activities.
I wish all good luck and lots of success.
Arafat Al-Naim

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From: Vollmer/Yamaguchi <jy6@columbia.edu>
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 23:32:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Baren 6835] Hoarse hares 

Jack, I'm interested in $5 horsehair printing brushes...I need extras for
teaching, plus it's always good to have extras for different colors. I find
my yellows need to be printed with new brushes, or they get discolored. And
forget the sumi brush, you can't print any other color once you get sumi on
a brush!

Hope all (observing ones) enjoyed their turkeys, now its officially the
holiday season, and the madness begins! I will try to lie low and spend
some time in the studio. With two humidifiers? The air is distinctly better
for breathing now, but worse for printing!

I have an open studio at the Lower East Side Printshop's Holiday Fair
coming up Saturday, December 11, from 12 to 6. The address is 59-61 West
4th St, NYC, in case any Bareners are in town. I'll have a portfolio of
prints and will bring some blocks and tools to show. There will be four
printmakers showing work.

April Vollmer

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From: Wanda Robertson <robertson@canby.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 21:55:21 -0800
Subject: [Baren 6836] Re: Dragon Page 

I got my first Dragon on Wednesday! This is great, like Christmas cards
only *much* better! Thanks, Phillip! Great image.

Wanda

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From: Dutch Stowe <dutch@crystalridge.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 22:03:18 -0800
Subject: [Baren 6837] Virus Gone 

Ok, that done, I'm going to stick my foot in and ask some questions and
hope y'all will forgive me if these are silly questions. The only defense I
have is I am a REAL NEW Printmaker. Prior to two semesters ago I never even
considered or knew anything about print making. Here is question number
one: when I carve my blocks I leave a frame around that (don't know it that
is standard or not but from the pictures I am looking at it seems so ) I am
printing with oil based ink applied with a brayer and I don't want to print
the frame. What does anyone suggest as a way of blocking that off either so
that ink is not applied or the if ink is applied not printed.

Thank You 
Dutch Stowe

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From: "John Ryrie" <johnry@hotkey.net.au>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 19:10:26 +1100
Subject: [Baren 6838] border 

>when I carve my blocks I leave a frame around that (don't know it that
> is standard or not but from the pictures I am looking at it seems so ) I am
> printing with oil based ink applied with a brayer and I don't want to print
> the frame

    If I understand the question correctly you are referring to the border
around most traditional European and also Japanese prints.  This is an
aesthetic devise and if you don't want it to print simply cut it off the
block.
    I don't know what type of press you are using but the Baren sight gives
a good explanation of printing with an etching press.
    I think the work on my web sight are of images that are contained with
in borders but if you go to Harsco's page there are examples of prints that
come out beyond the.
 border.
 http://www.analisevital.com.br/Xilo12.htm

    Anyway Dutch I remember you mentioned you had a parrot what type is it,
I have a sulphur crested cockatoo, her name is Nigal.

    Happy birthday Baren

Dave the suggestion about swapping work among ourselves, Horacio and I have
just done that very thing.  Also Andy English's web site has a section
devoted to this.
http://freespace.virgin.net/a.english

John

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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 17:46:29 +0900
Subject: [Baren 6839] Re: printing with aluminum  

Dutch wrote:
> ... I don't want to print
> the frame. What does anyone suggest as a way of blocking that off either so
> that ink is not applied or the if ink is applied not printed.

A common way to 'mask off' parts of the image that you don't want
printed, but that are so close in that they pick up ink, is to use
aluminum foil.

Use piece(s) of foil taped down along one edge to the block in such a
manner that they can be flipped into place to cover those areas while
inking is going on, and then flipped back after inking, to leave 'bare'
wood.

***

April wrote:
> I find my yellows need to be printed with new brushes, or they 
> get discolored. And forget the sumi brush, you can't print any 
> other color once you get sumi on a brush!

I was speaking on the phone a while ago with another printmaker over
there in 'norto amerika', and was surprised to hear that he too was
using the same brush for different colours.  

It's not something that people just starting out in woodblock
printmaking want to hear, because it can involve quite an investment,
but printmaking in this tradition over here is always done with brushes
that are 'reserved' for particular colours.  It's completely impossible
to wash out all the pigment from a brush that has been used to do many
copies of a print, and printers thus need quite a large stock of
brushes.  Considering also that as one needs different sizes of brush
for different types of printing areas, things can start to multiply
pretty quickly ...

A quick count on my desk shows just around 60 brushes that are in
regular use ... and I've got way way less than most pro printers here.

There's an 'up' side to the situation though; because each brush is only
used occasionally (when that particular colour is needed) they last much
longer than brushes that are in constant use.  Most of my brushes will
be with me for the rest of my life ...

Dave

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From: "Horacio" <horacio@centroin.com.br>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 09:32:51 -0200
Subject: [Baren 6840] Re: Happy Birthday ... 

Dave, it's a great  honor for me your proposal about print swap. Let me know
your address and the prints you want and I will send them immediately. I
will be very very happy receiving any of your beautiful prints.
Happy Birthday Baren!
Thank you Dave.
Horacio
Rio / Brazil
horacio@centroin.com.br
http://www.analisevital.com.br/xilograv.htm

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End of Baren Digest V9 #798
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