[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Baren Digest Sunday, 5 December 1999 Volume 09 : Number 809 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Graham Scholes Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 06:52:12 -0800 Subject: [Baren 6998] Re: >WWW.Artpaper.com they seem to have really good >prices on Japanese papers,..... sleep tight Philip Hmmmmm You should go and look around. If you can make sense of it let me know. I thought it would be helpful to look at this page and assess what they have and compare the prices.... I find this listing of Hosho paper confusing... Hosho 100% sulphite handmade in Japan acid free four natural deckles color-------------professional Two things surface ----------vellum size in inches---- 19x24, grs/m2 ----------85 lbs/M ----------- 50 Our Price 1-25--- $3.29 Confusing because of two factors..... Hosho paper is not made from 100%sulphite....... but from the inner bark of the mulberry tree. AND The price is 1/4 of what I can land it for direct from the paper maker in Japan. I notice that the listing for Kozo paper states: ......... kozo/sulphite blend 21x29 ----- $4.24 This is equally confusing as it is approximately 1/3 my landed price. If I may add this.... I understood that Kozo was the fibre gampi made from mulberry bark and Hosho was the resulting paper. This web site sure has me confused.... Just to muddy the waters a little more I looked up the word "sulhpite" and the only meaning I found on the net was: >sulphite, n. A person who is spontaneous and original in his >habits of thought and conversation. [Slang] -- Sul*phit"ic, a. [Slang] >A sulphite is a person who does his own thinking, he is a person who has >surprises up his sleeve. He is explosive". --Gelett Burgess. I wonder how you guys can be confident that you are getting the real thing. Maybe Dave can throw so light on this. ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 07:14:15 -0800 Subject: [Baren 6999] Re: Vroom, Vroom ... >take a peek at the page I just put up on Brush Softening ... by machine. Bring that shark skin disc to Boot Camp and let me check it out.!!!!! What a great idea. invention... but are you sure that is is fair game to break tradition.... The next thing we will be hearing is you are doing designs on a computer..... Graham.....go wash your mouth out with soap.... Cheers, ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 07:19:34 -0800 Subject: [Baren 7000] Re: horai-Dai John wrote.... > It wouldn't do for my bigger prints where I like to get the big >chisels an a mallet and routter to them, but for the smaller ones it looks >good. What size are your bigger prints. Just make the hori-dai bigger....there is not limit. Graham ------------------------------ From: "Gregory D. Valentine" Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 09:35:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Baren 7001] exchange #5 (collaboration) Ive thought from time to time about making a print one block at a time-- cut and print one block, decide what's needed, design cut and print the next, etc. Probably I'd revise earlier blocks in response to later, but the idea might work in a round-robin print, too, and would only require sending a stack of prints from one participant to the next. An obvious topic is a collection (bouquet of flowers, bowl of fruit, crowd of people) as each participant could just add his or her flower fruit or face, but more challenging perhaps to each add a color to a total composition. Just what Im thinking this morning. ---Greg Valentine ------------------------------ From: Wanda Robertson Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 10:04:10 -0800 Subject: [Baren 7002] Re: Paper Sulfite: A salt or ester of sulfurous acid. =Larousse Illustrated International Encyclopedia and Dictionary. There isn't even an entry for "sulphite" in this dictionary, so perhaps it's the spelling that is causing the confusion. "Hand made" seems to be a term that is used rather loosely these days. I'd like to see a sheet of hand-made paper I could buy for $3.29 a sheet! Sounds like this stuff is the same as the art stores carry - student grade or professional grade hosho. Perhaps this person is not fluent in English & that is causing the problems. Does/has anyone ordered from this place? And what do you think? Wanda ------------------------------ From: "Philip Smith" Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:58:18 -0800 Subject: [none] GeeWhiz,...I really didn't mean to ruffle anyones feathers,...I buy 50 sheets of paper at a time, the www.artpaper.com Hosho price for 51 sheets is $2.75ea and all of the other papers are cheaper than Utrecht Linens and Daniel Smith,....which most of us are familiar with,...AND the discription of the papers are the same in the U.L. and D.S. catalogs,....someone mentioned they were having trouble finding papers,...well, dis is da place! Peace,... Philip ------------------------------ From: Dutch Stowe Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 11:45:50 -0800 Subject: [Baren 7006] Mission impossible Good Morning, Baren's! A giant troll just walked into your studio and ate every thing except your workbench, 100 uncarved woodblocks, and 1000 sheets of paper, and you must replace everything; this bad old troll even ate your rice paddles. Oh, by the way, you have a limited budget and have to create a starting kit with the minimum required stuff. A Starter or Beginners Kit 1. Tools - minimum required and size of each? 2. Colors - minimum number and which ones? 3. Brushes - minimum number and sizes? B. intermediate Kit (includes all of A +) 1. Tools - which ones? 2. Colors - which ones? 3. Brushes - which ones? C. Advance Kit (includes all of A and B +)(this might include the over 60 brushes that Dave Reports Etc:-). 1. Tools - which ones? 2. Colors - which Ones? 3. Brushes - which ones? I know that this might seem like a silly exercise, but this is sort of what happened, and Christmas is coming up and I've requested that anyone giving me gifts make it stuff for woodblock printing and would like to get the most bang for their buck. I also think this could be very useful for beginners (like me) and help us from wasting too much money trying to figure it out by trial and error. For instance, McClain's Carries "Akua-Kolor Water Base Inks" Doesn't appear to be cheap either. Is it any good? Should I spend $50.00 to $100.00 to get it or would I be wasting my money. They also have "Deer hair brushes" & "Surikomi Bake" that are reasonable? Are they any good or am I wasting my money. If they are good (notice I didn't say excellent) then how many (hopefully less than 60) do I need and what size would be a good starter? At this point i have a 6.0mm "Hangi To" (Very proud of and love) 2.0mm Maru 4.5mm Hira 3.0mm Sankakuto, all of which I am very proud of. I have carved 4 different blocks (proud of ) and am pulling out my hair trying to get a consistent print with one (not proud of) using oily stuff. I know this is a very long message and probably no one will believe me when I say I am not inclined to write long messages :-) Dave after looking at your bench more, I can see what you mean about measurements and will take your suggestion. Thanks. Graham thank you for posting pictures of your cutting board. Am on my way to Home Depot for plywood and hinges. Thanks. Thank You Dutch Stowe ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 12:33:59 -0800 Subject: [Baren 7007] Re: Paper > GeeWhiz,...I really didn't mean to ruffle anyones feathers,... You didn't.... but it was such a surprise to me to see the definition and price. I buy 50 sheets of paper at a time, the www.artpaper.com Hosho price for 51 sheets is $2.75ea Would you send me a small sample Philip. I would like to compare with the stuff I get from the paper makers in Japan.... Thanks, Graham ------------------------------ From: "Philip Smith" Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 13:22:10 -0800 Subject: [none] Graham,....I just placed a small order of Thai Kozo with Artpaper.com,...I will inform all on the service etc when it arrives,...but they have a sample request on the sight just in case you do want to compare papers,...I'm not an expert so I will probly be amazed and pleased with what I get,...you know what they say, ignorance is bliss!! Peace,... Philip ------------------------------ From: "Philip Smith" Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 13:41:18 -0800 Subject: [Baren 7009] Re: Mission impossible Dutch,...you'll at least get one great present,...I have one and I use it to cut my blocks with ...it's a wonderful little knife called " Wayne Barton's PREMIER cutting knife" a great $25.00 gift,..it's a chip carving knife, and they have them on pg.12 in the Woodcraft Catalog,..or: www.woodcraft.com,.... ...and I find the NW Trolls hate anything with salt on it,....you might keep that in mind. Peace Philip ------------------------------ From: B Mason Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 15:10:11 -0800 Subject: [Baren 7011] Beginning kit Dutch, You will never get better or cheaper pigment or equipment than from Graham in Victoria. The exchange on the dollar makes them a wonderful buy and the quality is unsurpassed. Graham is not seling the equipment of pigment directly, but will put you in touch with his friend Noboro (tools) and his friend Mike (pigment). Graham has lovely paper for sale, it is the creme de la creme of paper. Barbara ------------------------------ From: "John Ryrie" Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 12:30:57 +1100 Subject: [Baren 7012] hazard of printing The only paper called Hosho available hear is the stuff that comes in roles it's fore beginners in sumi and calligraphy and it's the cheapest Japanese paper available $13.95 18"x 30ft useless for printing and full of acid. The best Japanese paper available seems to be Gampi $9.80 per sheet. The cost of importing things to hear is ridiculous I wanted to get a book by Eric Gill last week it cost $10 US by the time it would have got to my local book shop it would be $67. That's why none of these over seas art supply places are any use to me hear. Dave I like the Brush sharpening invention. But have you considered keeping a live shark in a tank beside your printing table? John ------------------------------ From: Maria Arango Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 17:32:43 -0800 Subject: [Baren 7013] Re: Mission impossible Dutch, I'm sure we all have our opinions about this "mission." For the traditional approach and recommendations from old masters, go to the library in Dave's Encyclopedia and check out some of the books that you can download. Many of them recommend a certain set to begin with, as you are asking. Other sources are the catalogs from suppliers of this stuff. They often have "sets" that you can purchase; these sets have been put together according to the "most used" individual knives and chisels. As for brushes, get McClain's catalog before they go out of business and they also recommend certain sizes for starters. Bummer about that troll, man. Good luck and health to all, Maria ------------------------------ From: szvetecz Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 21:48:50 -0600 Subject: [Baren 7015] RE: Image and more image My suggestion is to spend a certain amount of time just carving into the wood and printing from the crude (or not-so-crude) carvings you produce. For this experimental phase, try to work without detailed drawings; give yourself a chance to really experience the feel of the materials. I think if you allow yourself this period of experimentation, you will then be able to more readily reinterpret your themes and images as woodblock prints, and you will also be able to figure out what kind of technical skills you want to focus on acquiring for these prints. But it isn't solely a question of technique. I think it is true, as you suspect, that it could be very frustrating to try to "translate" the petroglyph images you've done via monotype into woodblock. However, a period of non self-censuring experimentation with carving and printing woodblock would help you begin to "re-imagine" your ideas as woodblock print, as opposed to trying to "translate" your ideas into woodblock. Maybe this approach is to sentimental for you; perhaps it speaks more to the problems I am dealing with in switching printmaking media. I have to keep reminding myself not to fight with the block--control it yes, but don't make it an enemy. Margaret Szvetecz ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 12:50:17 +0900 Subject: [Baren 7017] Re: papers ... Graham wrote: > I find this listing of Hosho paper confusing... The information that was listed _does_ indeed seem contradictory. 'Hosho' is a name normally reserved for one of the finest printmaking papers, and if that inexpensive paper is actually handmade, and from 100% kozo, then such a low price simply doesn't make sense. There still seems to be some confusion on materials though - there are three plants generally used for Japanese papers, and the fibres from them are known as: kozo, gampi, and mitsumata. I'm not a paper expert, but can simply point out that the fibres from these three plants have different characteristics - length, strength, etc., and papers made from them can thus be very different in character. In my world - traditional Japanese printmaking - the fibre of choice was kozo. *** > Bring that shark skin disc to Boot Camp and let me check it out.!!!!! You're joking! It weighs more than I do! >The next thing we will be hearing is you are doing designs on a computer..... Well, funny you should mention this ... you see, the hanshita for my print for Exchange #4 ... but no, I'd better not give you the bad news right now Graham, you might faint! *** Dutch asked about recommended tool kits ... I'm afraid I'm not having much luck answering your questions, Dutch! I've got to let you down on this one too. Without knowing what sort of work you are going to do, and on what sort of scale, and with what sort of materials, recommending tools just doesn't make any sense. Are you making delicate reproductions of Hiroshige prints? 4'x8' plywood monsters like Maria? Rough-cut portraits like Munakata? Are you printing with water-base pigments? Oil? You say that you have a few tools already. Well, simply start with them, get cutting, and then printing. Once you've had some experience - and only then - will you be able to think about what tools you might use to advance your work. Woodblock printmaking is such an incredibly diverse field, that there can be no such thing as a 'standard' tool kit. I'm not trying to cop out completely - let us know your specific area of interest, and I'm sure some of us will be able to suggest useful tools. *** Administrivia: Just a reminder to everyone that Monday is the day that my ISP in Pittsburgh is moving house, and the woodblock.com web site will be down for perhaps most of the day. The actual times are completely unknown, and if they run into problems during the day, the outage could be extended ... (Matt is hosted at the same place, and will also be 'down' for part of the day ...) The [Baren] list will continue unaffected by all this ... Dave ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:14:41 -0800 Subject: [Baren 7018] Re: papers ... Thanks for the feedback on the paper.... I was beginning to wonder if I was taught good ???? Maybe a little English lesson is in order. >You're joking! It weighs more than I do! Do you suppose that your parent would mind the substitution. ! We gotta get the priorities right....... >Well, funny you should mention this ... you see, the hanshita for my >print for Exchange #4 ... Oh gosh..... I'm sorry I asked... Regards, Graham ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:27:06 -0800 Subject: [Baren 7019] Re: Mission impossible Hi Dutch, Good Dave.... I have been wondering how to respond. I can add that if this material is for yourself and you have "fire of desire" about Hanga printmaking then don't fool around with the cheap stuff. Sure you can get by and make do with the non professional tools and as some one said it does not require great tools to do great work. Well, I and relate that in this sport is sure doesn't hinder and in lots of cases make it easier. If you are wondering about tool etc I wonder if you have looked at the list I compiled on my site. http://members.home.net/woodblocks/Materials.html This was put together for people attending the workshop last year. The saw within a day or two the need and practicality of the tools etc recommended. As a matter of interest I had complete sets of non professional tool available. None were sold... Comparing them with hands on test, the 5 people realized it would not be a wise purchase. Maybe those people would or have written you re this! What say guys? Dutch needs help..... Have a look and if I can help then let me know and I will contact Noboru Sawai who I'm sure will send the stuff to you. You would have to deal via phone or fax..... He is more old fashion than I am. Does not have e-mail ...... Let me know what direction you are thinking about and help will be on the way. Graham ------------------------------ From: "John Ryrie" Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 18:54:41 +1100 Subject: [Baren 7020] size isn't important? Graham my prints get to be about a meter square, I can see that the Carving Stop Horai Dai could be made bigger and stronger but I simply wouldn't have room for one that size in my studio. I had an idea for the pegs. Have you seen the adjustable shelves that have 'L' shaped bras pegs that you can move up and down by changing holes. Some of them have bras sleeves that fit into the hole they look very durable. Looking at the piano hinge has just given me another idea. Woodcutters who also play the piano could combine the two arts by building a Carving Stop Horai Dai in the lid of their grand piano. John ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V9 #809 ***************************