[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Baren Digest Sunday, 12 December 1999 Volume 09 : Number 818 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Aqua4tis@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:17:18 EST Subject: [Baren 7103] Re: Presses julio, ive never worked with a press like this does the bed raise and lower? (i think i have a crush on vandy) georga ------------------------------ From: "Horacio" Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:32:13 -0200 Subject: [Baren 7105] Re: Collaboration Dear Graham I sent this suggestion months ago, during the BAREN brainstorming on how to establish a collaborative printing method for exchange #5. I confess that I had personal interest. I was wondering if other persons could recreate a color print from one of my black and white prints. They could! And I had, off list, great honor, pleasure and fun with this experience. (Please, help me, Wanda!) Despite I like to watch the Baren discussions on what art is or art isn't, I don't discuss it. I divide the ouvres (computer art, crafts, conceptual art, abstract x figurative, photograph, photogravure, advertise illustration, comics, incidental etc) into 2 classes: the ones that I feel and the ones that I don't feel. (I don't know if "feel" is the right verb). For example, I don't feel Andy Warhol, but I extremely feel/sense/appreciate Van Gogh and Egon Schiele .... In Paris, I prefer to visit Museˇ D'Orsay than Museˇ du Louvre. This is my opinion.. But I accept and respect and like to know everybody's work and everybody's opinion. By the way, Graham, I would like to have your opinion on that, please: I'm now working as system consultant on the implementation of an automated fingerprint identification system for the State of Rio de Janeiro. Some fingerprints, originally printed with oil ink over old "couchˇ (?)" paper, scanned and enlarged on the 21"monitor, are so beautiful that people could admire them as works of art. Is this point valid? If yes, who is the artist? The finger owner? The policeman that made the print? ...God? Just a thought (:^)) Thank you for your posting. Horatio. ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:21:10 -0800 Subject: [Baren 7107] Re: Collaboration Horacio wrote.... >fingerprints, originally printed with oil ink over old "couch (?)" paper, Well it does make one think.... If it is on a monitor then I guess it belongs to cyberspace. It belongs to the person who originated the idea. The making of has no bearing as there is no skill or craft involved. Yep for sure, it is the guy that though up the idea of using it as a piece of art and present sit as art. Whether the heavies in the world accept or reject it is ..... well that's in the hands of the Gods.. Story. In the Metropolitan Museum of Fine Arts in New York is a piece they have defined as art. The subject was a metronome and on the weighted stem that moves back and forth that sets the rhythm, is a magazine cut out of an little eye. ?????? Why is this art??? The best I can figure is that the artist that did this was the originator of something nobody had ever done before. (Picasso comes to mind). As you look at the piece it looks right back and your imagination can run wild on music and preforming arts. Quite a statement.... Graham ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:45:26 -0800 Subject: [Baren 7108] Re: Collaboration Horacio, I am trying to help - as we speak! I've been working all morning on getting a web page up with the results of our ongoing work of art. My server tells me that I have files with incorrect names & it won't have that! I hope to have the server/file-name problems ironed out by this evening. Right now I need to go out & feed my animals and get some fresh (non-computerized) air. I love these machines, but boy oh boy, can they be frustrating sometimes. Fingerprints as art? I'll bet they really are beautiful - and as we work with the grain of wood - what would happen if we worked with the grain of fingerprints? Hmmm...better be careful, might start a whole new debate. Heeheehe ....sorry.....NOT! Actually, speaking of this - working with fingerprints. A friend told me of a wonderful artist working with children in school. She had the imaginative idea of turning the children's fingerprints into little mice with ears & tail. The little pictures were so charming and lovable - she soon became known as the "mouse lady" and all anyone wanted her to do were these little mice! So be careful of fame. :-) Wanda ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 21:16:50 +0200 Subject: [Baren 7109] Re: Collaboration Horacio wrote: > fingerprints, originally printed with oil ink over old "couchˇ (?)" paper, > scanned and enlarged on the 21"monitor, are so beautiful that people could > admire them as works of art. Is this point valid? If yes, who is the > artist? The finger owner? The policeman that made the print? ...God? God (in which ever manifestation you choose) made the design and cut the plate, the policeman was the printer, and the finger owner just happens to own the plates. So, since the policeman's skill as a printer enters into it, God would be the artist. ;>) Jack ------------------------------ From: Gary Luedtke Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:33:31 -0500 Subject: [Baren 7111] Re: Collaboration Horacio wrote, >If yes, who is the artist? The finger owner? The policeman that made >the print? ...God? Interesting point, Horacio, Is a _photographer_ then an artist? Is a _sculptor_? Are any of us? Perhaps an "artist" is the one who directs peoples attention at a certain perception of things and says, isn't that beautiful? Or "isn't that interesting?" They may arrange elements of it to make it a little more so, but all of the elements are made for us by nature, or whatever creator you believe in, and all we do is emphasize it in our own way to draw peoples wonder to it, as our perception has drawn us to it. In this sense, if Horacio takes a fingerprint and enlarges it, and draws our attention to it in a certain way that lends it more interest than it otherwise would have, Horacio is the artist. But it actually sounds like the traditional Japanese Hanga technique. Nature designed it, conception cut the blocks, the policeman printed it, and Horacio published it. It's the old collaborative effort still alive and well! Let's see one of those, Horacio, if you can do it without violating any privacy laws. Which brings up another interesting point. If Horacio enlarges it and prints it as a work of art, can he copyright it???? Gary ------------------------------ From: michael schneider Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 23:20:23 +0100 Subject: [Baren 7112] the meaning of baren When I studied printing in Tokyo, I learned to use a baren, how to write it in katakana and even how to make one, the traditional and the yuki-baren. But every time I asked about the meaning, I did not get an answer that I satisfied me. All of you how have received my book and CD-ROM may have have wondered why baren was spelled in english and german, "barren". The reason is that I closely followed the sound, when my colleges in japan spoke the word. I tried to check the word in all the english dictionaries I own but could not find it.. Still, the meaning of the word was something nobody could explain to me. Yesterday I found out the meaning, it was in front of me all the time. But it is the same with all simple explanations, the near they are to you, the farer (not sure on the spelling, no reason to get mad on my english Graham.) you tend to search for them. "ba re n" in katakana, is the transcription of the german word "BALLEN". The word was used in german speaking europe between the 16th and the 19th. century for a tool similar to the baren we know to make prints. If you are interested, I might be able to scan an illustration of a old book on printmaking, showing the tool AND the name. All of this might not be of any significance for you, but for me it was enlightening. Still on etymological research, michael ------------------------------ From: OakenKing@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:20:23 EST Subject: [Baren 7113] Re: Collaboration The conversation about fingerprints is interesting! It brings up a lot of issues which also come into play with other kinds of artwork, and made me think - people's fingerprints might not be something you'd want to print and distribute without official permission, especially if you've gotten them from a government office as part of a business project... does the State have any sort of rights to the images? One of my art theory books (I don't remember which one) said something about the artist having a special kind of sight - a vision in which things were beautiful, powerful, meaningful, and clear - and that good artists created work which allowed the viewer to enter momentarily into that same special state. This has informed my understanding of a lot of different art forms - because the real gift of an artist is the ability to see. Artists can focus on something everyday, and by bringing us along into their vision, can enlarge our experience - so it seems to me that the policeman and the suspect being fingerprinted were just engaging in everyday life - it's Horacio's special perspective in looking at the fingerprint, and making an image which will allow other people to enter into that vision, which constitutes art. Now how about carving a wood block based on the enlarged image? Michael Cook ------------------------------ From: "Philip Smith" Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:54:08 -0800 Subject: [Baren 7114] Re: the meaning of baren charset="iso-8859-1" Michael, yes, I am interested in old tools and word origin,...I would very much like to see what this "Ballen" looked like,....thanks for the effort. Philip ------------------------------ From: michael schneider Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 00:05:33 +0100 Subject: [Baren 7115] Re: the meaning of baren Please give me time until tomorrow, to have the illustration scaned. michael ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 08:07:46 +0900 Subject: [Baren 7116] Re: the meaning of baren Michael wrote, re the origin of the word 'baren': > The word was used in > german speaking europe between the 16th and the 19th. century for a tool > similar to the baren we know to make prints. Michael, the argument over the origin of this word has been going on here in Japan for at least a century, and the point is far from being settled. If you have some more information on this, I (and not only _I_) will be very interested in seeing and hearing more. > If you are interested, I > might be able to scan an illustration of a old book on printmaking, > showing the tool AND the name. When? Today? This morning? ?!?!? *** Jeanne wrote: > Poor Dave, what are you going to do about the next exchange > after all the many ideas that have been floating around out there??? Believe me, I've been banging my head against the walls trying to figure out this next theme. It's now time to get it decided and get the registration process underway, so that the thing can get started in January. As I saw it, the general consensus was for this next exchange to be our 'standard' one-person-one-print type (and not groups of people working together on each print). The 'collaborative' aspect of this exchange will be in the selection of a unified theme for the prints. This actually, is pretty much what Exchange #4 is about (with self-portrait as the theme), so I was somewhat less than enthusiastic about doing a 'theme', but seeing how well people have responded to this 'dragon' thing tells me that there _is_ actually good interest in such an approach. I'll now buckle down and try to get this organized quickly. But during this week's printing, with sheet after sheet going across my printing bench, each one showing two Edo-period 'courtesans', it's difficult to think about anything else! *** Administrivia: A report came in from the [Baren] server this morning, that some recent messages were unable to be delivered, specifically to all members who use Yahoo Mail. This included the important message from Julio yesterday about the Chicago exhibition. Yahoo people should thus perhaps check Digest #817 in the Archives, to bring themselves up to date. Dave ------------------------------ From: Gary Luedtke Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:00:54 -0500 Subject: [Baren 7117] Re: the meaning of baren Dave said, >Believe me, I've been banging my head against the walls trying to figure >out this next theme. Just a suggestion from a non-exchanging member for the "theme" of your next exchange print. I don't know how many of you are familiar with Hiroshige and other Ukiyo-e artists of his time, but it seems a popular and amusing "theme" was to split a print in half. On one side was a simple silhouette, of something like Mt. Fuji. On the other side was a creative and amusing picture of a person contorting themselves with various accessories to cast that silhouette. For example, a fellow with feet spread wide, his head bowed to the floor, and his butt sticking up high, cast the Fuji silhouette on the opposite panel. Seems like something that might be fun. Either have one silhouette that is a given, or each create their own. Just an idea. I'm sure I have an illustration of such a print I could scan and send to Dave to post if there's any interest, or Dave may have such a thing lying around. Gary ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 03:24:36 +0200 Subject: [Baren 7118] Re: the meaning of baren michael schneider wrote: > the transcription of the german word "BALLEN". Very interesting find, and it brings up more questions, too. Like, why would a German word come into popular use in Japan for a tool that was developed before (I think) any contact with European languages. And does this raise the possibility that the Japanese baren itself is not an original invention, but somehow a Japanese adaptation of the German tool? Dave, any info on the origins of the -invention- of the baren? Jack ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 10:59:27 +0900 Subject: [Baren 7119] Re: the meaning of baren Jack wrote: > ... why > would a German word come into popular use in Japan for a tool that was > developed before (I think) any contact with European languages. It's apparently not so old, Jack. It seems to have been developed in the early 1700's, and by that time, there was indeed plenty of contact with Europe. > And does > this raise the possibility that the Japanese baren itself is not an > original invention, but somehow a Japanese adaptation of the German tool? This is why Michael's info is so interesting. Nobody knows where the baren itself came from - unlike many things in Japanese culture which show great influences from Korea and China - pottery, calligraphy, etc. - - this one seems to be unique to Japan. The origin of the word 'baren' is also completely unknown. The idea of having a word in Japanese that has origins in a European language is not strange at all; many words now in common use here, and which native Japanese assume to be inherently 'local', are actually from Europe. Just to take one simple example, the lady who does my wrapping and shipping thinks of her job as her 'a-ru-ba-i-to', the word for a part time job. Michael in Austria will recognize that one, I think! Dave ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 18:25:43 -0800 Subject: [Baren 7120] Re: the meaning of baren I have figured it out! When the English visited Japan in the 1700's One of the passengers was a Baron.... The Japanese were sooo im.....pressed ..... they adopted the word for the 'thingie', which they had been calling it. We all know how variations occur during translation. WWhereby comes the name Baren...... Graham ------------------------------ From: Gary Luedtke Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 22:59:21 -0500 Subject: [Baren 7121] Re: the meaning of baren Baron Graham Cracker was I think the fellow that washed ashore back then. A Scotsman stowaway on that English ship. They kept trying to throw him back but he wouldn't stop swimming ashore. The motion suggested in his constant return reminded them of the baren movement and hence it's borne his name ever since. But like the Scotsman that he was, he got it miss-spelled. ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:10:33 +0900 Subject: [Baren 7123] Collaboration result ... Just a quickie ... A note went up onto the 'Show & Tell' Board this afternoon, but as I rather doubt many of you are checking that every day, here is the link that was posted: http://web-ster.com/robertson/Menina (It seems that a couple of [Baren] members have been seeing a little bit too much of each other!) Dave ------------------------------ From: michael schneider Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 13:55:10 +0100 Subject: [Baren 7124] the meaning of baren II I did a scan of the illustration to make it visible to all interested baren members in about 20 minutes at: http://www.t0.or.at/~mikasch/ballen About the word itself. David has mentioned " ar u ba i to". Words like this, foreign in origin and but completely japanised, are always written in Katakana without an alternative writing with Kanji. This is the case with the word "baren". The first foreigners to have contact with the japanese happened to be the Spanish. After them the Dutch had the privileged to stay in contact with the japanese. Although this were mainly Dutch, the japanese at that time could hardly distinguish between Dutch and Germans. (Similar to the English who used the word "Deutsch" in the meaning of "German language speaking person" to name the Dutch people.) Of course the contact to the Dutch was limited, but especially artists had a good connection to the foreign community in Japan. "ho ra n da . bu ru u" is one example. This is the japanese name for "prussian blue". And the availability of this new imported pigment made the wonderful and famous ukio-e prints that we all admire so much possible. Another example for the close connections between foreigners (aliens like David) and artists, are the old books about foreign inventions and technique, done by artists and printed from wood. Hokusai did a lot of woodcuts showing technical explanations. The technique of printing did not originate in Japan, but in China. The technical improvements the Japanese made, created the base for the highly elaborate typical japanese print. There are some reasons to mention for that improvement. First, the japanese paper is made from different fiber and therefore stronger. Second, japanese metallurgic knowledge allowed the production of better knifes and tools. The Chinese used a tool similar in function to the baren to print. The chinese type baren is a rectangle block of wood, that has some layers of horse hair stretched over the side that is used to apply the pressure on the paper. We can assume, that this type of baren was used for some time in Japan too. This tool might have changed into the baren we know now after pictures of or the actual european tool became known in japan. To use the german word for the tool then in use would make sense, because it would express the difference between the old chinese tool and the "modern" tool. About the acceptance of foreign words in Japan, my experience tells, that short and easy to pronounce words are very welcomed. This words do not change very much. Words that are longer, or more difficult to pronounce, change heavily, like the word "Arbeit" (Work). When it was adopted by the japanese, it became " a ru ba i to", nowadays, it changed into " ba i to". "ba re n" is short and easy to pronounce, so it might have not changed at all. I know that I have no scientific proof for all of this, but for the first time, the word and the explanation of it makes sense to me. michael ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V9 #818 ***************************