[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Baren Digest Monday, 13 December 1999 Volume 09 : Number 819 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Ryrie" Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 00:32:31 +1100 Subject: [Baren 7125] finger prints Horacio It would be interesting to see one of these finger prints. I have a friend I attended art school with who got a job on leaving with the local Museum. It was his job over about two years to record the collection of Labirithadon skulls. Labarinthadons were the first critters to leave the sea and walk on land. There are hundreds of species and the skulls rang between four millimetres and one meter in size. The smaller ones needed to be seen through an electron microscope. The name Labirithadon comes from the labyrinth like texture of the bone which resembles the paten of a finger print. The drawings which were done in dots with a fine pen wore very beautiful. I have always been interested in images that where considered to be art when they were made, Medieval prints, illuminated manuscripts, The Loubok prints of Russia, Medical or scientific illustrations, maps, Beasterys and herbals. I don't give a Dingo's Kidney (to use a local expression) if a thing is by what ever definition ART. Even if it has been created by a Policeman who, if he is anything like the ones I have met is a few rungs lower on the evolutionary ladder than the Labirithadon. It can still be beautiful, and inspirational whether it is art or not. By the way do you know the wood engraving by Thomas Bewick of his own finger print? John ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:51:36 +0900 Subject: [Baren 7126] Re: the meaning of baren II Michael wrote: > I did a scan of the illustration to make it visible to all interested > baren members: > http://www.t0.or.at/~mikasch/ballen Michael, can I ask for a bit more information, please? (1) Your description says 'medieval'. What dates are we talking about here? (2) The description in the book first labels the tool as 'Handreiber' and then uses the word 'Druckballen' in parentheses after it. Which word would have been used _back then_? (3) Is the block we are looking at in that picture, end grain or plank? (4) The text visible in the sample picture would be 'type' or carved? Please give me the full name of the book, including author and publisher information. Thanks! Dave ------------------------------ From: michael schneider Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 15:31:58 +0100 Subject: [Baren 7127] Re: the meaning of baren II 1) the illustration shows the printing technique used around 1420. 2) unfortunately there is no indication in the book itself, but as the term "Handreiber" is a modern term in use now, I believe that "Druckballen" is the old one. Ballen is the word also used in the term "Ball of the thumb" in german "Handballen". If you would make a Hand impression without tools, you would use the ball of the thumb. A technique described by Walter Koschatzky in the book: "Die Kunst der Graphik" page 46. 3&4) from the illustration it is hard to tell, but as it describes the process of printing carved Books, it must be end of grain. Illustration taken from the Book: Author: Blana, Hubert Title: Die Herstellung : ein Handbuch fur die Gestaltung, Technik und Kalkulation von Buch, Zeitschrift und Zeitung/ von Hubert Blana. now available in the 4th. revised edition. Munchen: Saur 1998 ISBN 3-598-20067-6 Copyright: 1998 by K.G. Saur Verlag GmbH & Co KG, Munchen/ Part of Reed Elsevier The illustration seems to have been done especially for this book I hope this information is useful for you. michael ------------------------------ From: Brad Schwartz Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 09:41:57 -0800 Subject: [Baren 7129] re: wintergreen transfers Regarding image transfers... when we were at Barbara Mason's for her Printmaking party a few weeks ago, Mark Mehaffey demonstrated a fairly easy and non-toxic transfer method that doesn't used Lacquer thinner or wintergreen oil, etc. It does require the use of a press, or at least a great deal of pressure. Take a look at: http://www.baschwar.com/printmakers/francismyerstransfer.html BS ------------------------------ From: "Jean Eger" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 10:09:00 -0800 Subject: [none] Dear Bareners, I am in debt to Gayle for encouraging me to go on with my flying horse theme. It has been very good for me to be required to produce these little prints and, Oh, what a learning experience to have to make 30 of them. I have actually been accumulating a series, just like a professional! So I would like to go back to the old way of everyone submitting their own theme piece, rather than a group theme. What do you think about that? Jean Eger ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 10:25:43 -0800 Subject: [Baren 7131] Re: the meaning of baren II Speaking no German at all & able to only guess the meaning of some of these words...."reiber" means "rubber"? And what would "druck" be? print? plate? page? And "ballen" would be pronounced "barren" by the Japanese since there is no "r" sound in Japanese? Right? And how about the caption: "Abbildung 2: Ein mittelalterlicher Holztafeldruck. Die Schritist in die Platte cingeschnitten." .....2, one........... The .....in the plate ........? Please, Michael, could you fill in the blanks? The first illustration resembles the "pouncers" that we were talking about a few weeks ago. It makes sense that the pouncers would grow into a larger tool and be made with native materials - thereby becoming what we now call a "baren". Wanda ------------------------------ From: "Philip Smith" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 10:53:26 -0800 Subject: [none] You with all this discussion about transfering the image to the wood,.I thought that everyone knew that you can just iron on the image from a copy machine with your old garden variety cloths iron,...just pull the paper off before the it cools! Philip ------------------------------ From: Brad Schwartz Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 11:27:30 -0800 Subject: [Baren 7133] Re: > You with all this discussion about transfering the image to the wood,.I > thought that everyone knew that you can just iron on the image from a copy > machine with your old garden variety cloths iron,...just pull the paper off > before the it cools! Philip Doesn't that tend to make the wood more brittle and dry it out? Or do you then oil the block like other people have mentioned? Also, ironing onto linoleum causes the lino to get very brittle too. Then again, there's always that hard thing... just drawing backwards onto the block! :) BS ------------------------------ From: "DShack" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 12:07:39 -0800 Subject: [Baren 7134] Quick carving tool I found I was in a woodcarving shop the other day looking for something I assumed didn't exist. I was wanting a tool that would allow me to easily and roughly "attack" the wood, cutting gouges with a pulling motion, not a pushing motion. I'm sure most of you wouldn't be doing this usually, but it fits what I want to do right now. Anyway, after talking to one of the clerks for a while, he pointed me to some tools they had. They are called "scorps" and are used for such things as hollowing out the business ends of wooded spoons, etc. One good point I found with this tool is that it helps avoid tearing of the wood that I've experienced on the birch plywood I'm using right now. I really had to watch that with regular gouges. I assume this is because the head of the tool is shaped similarly to the eye of a needle, and the wood getting removed is getting funneled through a confined space. They had three versions: V shaped, O shaped and square shaped hole. I can see where the square shaped one could be used for very quick material removal for blank spaces. I got the V shaped one. the edges are razor sharp. One problem is, the end of the scorp is angled at about 45%, causing me to have to pull across the wood at an uncomfortable angle. I'll be trying to get in touch with the manufacturer of this particular tool to see if he could make the bend closer to 90%. This tool cost me $60. Anyone use these and know of a cheaper source? ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:45:17 +0200 Subject: [Baren 7135] Re: the meaning of baren II > I know that I have no scientific proof for all of this, but for the > first time, the word and the explanation of it makes sense to me. This is very interesting, and brings up some more questions. Was the 'ballen' still much in use after the invention of the printing press by Gutenburg in 1450? Is it possible the the origin of the 'ballen' was a simpler tools that was imported with the idea of printing to Europe from the far east? Indeed, is there a condenses on the origins of printing in Europe? Might we assume then that Durer himself was printing with the predecessor to the Japanese baren? Jack ------------------------------ From: "Gregory D. Valentine" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 13:47:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Baren 7136] Re: the meaning of baren Michael-- yes, this is fascinating-- I have always read that the etymology of the word 'baren' was unknown. This is the first time I have heard this explanation; it sounds reasonable. But how did the German word come to be used in Japan? Has it only recently come to be called a baren? In any rate, just from the early printing aspect Im interested-- please post a picture of the tool. --Greg Valentine ------------------------------ From: "Gregory D. Valentine" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 13:56:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Baren 7137] Re: the meaning of baren II Jack-- responding to your idea that the baren originated in China, travelled with printing to Europe, acquired a name, which then was applied to the object in Japan-- that's a round-the-world trip (and reminds me of a particular image from the first exchange). --Greg Valentine ------------------------------ From: Josephine Severn Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:17:35 +1100 Subject: [Baren 7138] Exchanges and fingerprints Julio Re your exhibition, it is becoming common and is quite acceptable, for prints to be displayed attached to the wall unframed and unmatted. So that's one option you may not have considered. I've seen pins and bluetac (shudder) used for this. Or, you might borrow some 'stock' frames from the nearest museum type gallery which is also common practice. Third option is that you get some stock frames made, these are the plain, same colour neutral frames that we contantly see harbouring precious prints. If you make your prints to a standard size, and make your frames to a corresponding standard size, then you just swap them around for each show. You can sell without or with the frame at different prices. Im sure you know most of this anyway. Fourth option is that you get a local museum to frame them for you and then loan the collection to them on a semi permanent basis (storage) but retain ownership. Dave re Next exchange. Like many newbies to baren, I dont _care_ what the subject is, I just wanna start the bloody thing! (just kidding) Anything you pick is fine by me. I put up a print by Kunisado onto the dragon page. Please look. I want your answers re questions I pose re the image. Secondly, I thought it might be a good choice for your next print? Dave said "(By the way, speaking of 'flooding the list', may I suggest that perhaps a lot of the little 'I got my dragon!' messages be sent to [After Five]? I can certainly see your enthusiasm, and am excited to see it going so well, but with dozens of people participating in this, and more joining in all the time, it's going to result in a rather stupendous number of these little notes.)" I agree totally Dave, might get a few more in after five too. I will be adding to the dragon page regularly scanning up the dragons as they come in. If anyone doesnt want their dragon scanned and posted you must tell me. Please, everyone, just check the site regularly (weekly?) and this will save me telling when its been upgraded. I have upgraded the page today. I got a good book on dragon lore over the weekend. A wealth of info, with pics. Might add bits each upgrade. "Josephine,...'checked out your dragon sight,..everyone should,...NICE! Philip" Thanks Philip. Horacio Fingerprints. What a great subject. I think it was Chuck Close that did portraits 'pixelated' with variously toned finger prints? Use your own and family's prints. Enlarge and project them and carve away. This is how I did the leaf skeleton woodblock. I think theres one on my VIc PArk page. Its such a great topic I'd like to do it myself. I'm sure Ive seen someone else use it somewhere though.... Gary Said "Let's see one of those, Horacio, if you can do it without violating any privacy laws. Which brings up another interesting point. If Horacio enlarges it and prints it as a work of art, can he copyright it????" Gary, what is different about an image that describes a fine detail of the body (print) and an image of the whole body (nude or figure)? I would answer very little. I dont think photographers have to seek consent from people photographed in the street, otherwise we wouldnt have paparazi (sp?). Its a matter of consent. If they are fingerprinted by legal necessity, I would imagine ownership of the prints would lie with the legal body taking the print. There are a few copyright sites listed under professional practice on my site. Perhaps one of these would clarify the issue. What about iris prints? (As in eyes and iridology.) Xrays, ct scans, mri scans etc etc. Or that female artist (name?) who underwent series of operations mostly plastic surgery on video and then exhibited them as a discussion about the objectification of the body and feminist issues of body image. They were gruesome. Nuf from me Josephine ------------------------------ From: michael schneider Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 01:47:53 +0100 Subject: [Baren 7139] Re: the meaning of baren II Dear Wanda, please visit the page again, I adde a narration in english. But let me tell you, your gessing is of the meaning of the german words is very good. ( what is not so difficult, when you keep in mind, that some 900 years ago english and german have not been considered as different languages.) Well there is not "L" sound in japanese, the "L" becomes a "R". michael ------------------------------ From: michael schneider Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 02:16:51 +0100 Subject: [Baren 7140] Re: the meaning of baren II Jack Reisland wrote: > This is very interesting, and brings up some more questions. The "Ballen" was in use after the printing press was invented, surprisingly, the high time of carved books was after gutenbergs invention. Even after the press was in wide use, the "Ballen" was a important tool, to make proofs. As the idea of printing came to europe from the east, it might be possible, that the technique traveled together with the idea. On the other hand, all the books I know on the history of printmaking, state that "hand print" literally was made by hand, using the ball of the thumb.( What I imagine as a quiet hard work to do.) What is also mentioned in every description, is the use of a tool called "falzbein" in german (I am sure you can tell me the english term). "Falzbein" is a polished stick made of bone usually ebony and I know some printmakers that use it in the same manner today including myself. The problem of printing with the "falzbein" is that the area that applies the pressure to the paper is very small and the pressure varies heavily. I am afraid, we can not assume that Durer printed anything, except at the time when he was a scholar. Durer at his time was a very popular painter, who did the drawings for the prints. At that time transferring the original artwork to the plate was considered a craft on its own as cutting the plate was and the printing. Process and structure was very much the same like in Japan. Durer was not only an artist, "Durer" was a company. michael ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 03:40:20 +0200 Subject: [Baren 7142] Re: the meaning of baren II michael schneider wrote: > I am afraid, we can not assume that Durer printed anything, except at the time > when he was a scholar. Yes, I guess I meant that Durer may have used the 'ballen' in a figurative sense. It is interesting to note that printing, in Durer's time, was a collaborative effort just as it came to be in Japan. Did that idea perhaps arrive in Japan along with the baren? Jack ------------------------------ From: "Philip Smith" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:23:52 -0800 Subject: [Baren 7143] Re: Brad, I think you're right! I really prefer the traditional method of drawing with a waterproof ink, i.e.[magic marker, etc.] on a "tissue"paper and gluing that face down on the board,...but then again I really believe the minute or so you would spend with the iron wouldn't dry things out to much. Philip> ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V9 #819 ***************************