Delivery-Agent: @(#)$Id: local.c,v 1.54 1998/10/30 06:30:53 akira1 Exp $ on trader Received: by j.xx.or.jp (ATSON-1) ; 31 Jan 2000 22:02:53 +0900 Return-Path: Received: from lancer.xx.or.jp (lancer.xx.or.jp [202.224.39.3]) by trantula.xx.or.jp (8.8.8/3.7W) with ESMTP id WAA12157 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:02:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from ml.xx.or.jp (ml.xx.or.jp [202.224.39.111]) by lancer.xx.or.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22FA54887 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:02:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by ml.xx.or.jp (8.8.8/3.7W) with SMTP id WAA49634; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:00:13 +0900 Received: by ml.xx.or.jp; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:00:13 +0900 Received: (from ml@localhost) by ml.xx.or.jp (8.8.8/3.7W) id WAA15102 for baren-digest-outgoing; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:00:12 +0900 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:00:12 +0900 Message-Id: <200001311300.WAA15102@ml.xx.or.jp> From: owner-baren@ml.xx.or.jp To: baren@ml.xx.or.jp Subject: Baren Digest V10 #883 Reply-To: baren@ml.xx.or.jp Errors-To: owner-baren@ml.xx.or.jp Precedence: bulk [Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Sender: owner-baren-digest@ml.xx.or.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by trantula.xx.or.jp id WAA12157 X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Baren Digest Monday, 31 January 2000 Volume 10 : Number= 883 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Graham Scholes Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:40:56 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8053] Re: print #=20 Graham wrote: >I was in contact with some one from Zoltan's workshop about the Watmans >paper. The said it was only worth about $10 US a sheet which would have >been less >than shipping costs. > I think they must be after the heavier wait paper. > Morning John, Your little note above jogged my memory to get in touch with Zoltan. Had a lovely visit chat this morning and got caught up on the goings on f= or the both of us. Always nice to reminisce a bit. I stand corrected about the price that Zoltan paid for that Watman paper. It was another fellow artist name Karl Schaffer.... one of the heavies he= re in Canada. Died a few years ago. At any rate as soon as Zoltan said the name it came flooding back to me that it was indeed Karl that had paid th= e figure of $50.00 a sheet. So the moral of the story ..... take everything you hear with a pinch of salt..... especially when it comes from a Senior Citizen..... Regards, Graham ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:41:17 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8054] Watman paper=20 Graham wrote: >I was in contact with some one from Zoltan's workshop about the Watmans >paper. The said it was only worth about $10 US a sheet which would have >been less >than shipping costs. > I think they must be after the heavier wait paper. > Morning John, Your little note above jogged my memory to get in touch with Zoltan. Had a lovely visit chat this morning and got caught up on the goings on f= or the both of us. Always nice to reminisce a bit. I stand corrected about the price that Zoltan paid for that Watman paper. It was another fellow artist name Karl Schaffer.... one of the heavies he= re in Canada. Died a few years ago. At any rate as soon as Zoltan said the name it came flooding back to me that it was indeed Karl that had paid th= e figure of $50.00 a sheet. So the moral of the story ..... take everything you hear with a pinch of salt..... especially when it comes from a Senior Citizen..... Regards, Graham ------------------------------ From: Shireen Holman Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:47:31 -0500 Subject: [Baren 8055] Re: print #=20 At 09:36 AM 1/29/00 -0800, Graham wrote: >For me if I can do one colour on 30 pieces of paper in 2 or 3 hours, >depending on the complexity and bokashi, I figure I am going like >stink...... Using oil based inks and an etching press, I can print one colour on 30=20 pieces of paper in about 6 hours! I'm a real slow poke! Shireen *********************************************** Shireen Holman, Printmaker and Book Artist email: shireenh@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~shireenh/ *********************************************** ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:47:15 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8056] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=3D"--------= ----2DD7ABB06731D407428F0641"=20 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------2DD7ABB06731D407428F0641 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thought you guys might like to read this from a friend of Gary's: - --------------2DD7ABB06731D407428F0641 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from spamgaac.compuserve.com [149.174.217.146] by mail.canby.co= m with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id AD1835A800C4; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 06:39:20 -0800 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id JAA13035 for robertson@canby.com; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:35:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:35:25 -0500 From: Gary Luedtke Subject: Your Print Sender: Gary Luedtke To: Wanda Robertson Message-ID: <200001300935_MC2-96EC-7001@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-RCPT-TO: X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Wanda, =3D A new acauaintance of mine who has been collecting and studying prints since the late 40's, and who is currently cataloging Japanese prints for = =3D a museum, had this to say about your Heron print: <> So much for my theory on Ohara Shoson! It appears Marc Kahn knows what = =3D he is talking about. =3D Sounds like you have a find there alright, Wanda. Good luck. Gary - --------------2DD7ABB06731D407428F0641-- ------------------------------ From: Gregory Robison Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:39:21 +0300 Subject: [Baren 8057] Re: LETTER ART=20 Kampala, 30 January 2000 Regarding Arafat's "letter art" proposal: I think that this is rich with possibilities and is not necessarily a departure from the hanga focus of this list. If properly defined, an exchange with this as a feature would be fun and in keeping with this traditional marriage of text/letterforms with pictorial images that is common in oriental art. Some printmakers view letterforms with trepidation. At Graham's workshop last year someone -- and we were all thinking this, but not all of us said it -- remarked with respect on the convincing rendering of a sign in one of Graham's prints (I think it was the word "BAIT" on a shack on a pier or near the water). Graham pointed out (I never remember things exactly, but this is roughly what I think he said) that "letterforms are no different than any other detail work in a representational piece, such as a door frame or the angle of a gesturing arm. If the brain gets in the way and says, 'but this is a "B" and letters are too difficult for me', then simply carve it upside down, carefully, so that the mind only sees a downstroke with two bumps out to one side, and when you flip it over, you'll find it reads as a very fine 'B'." There are many ways letterforms could be represented or insinuated into a work -- including "proto-letters" like Barbara's petroglyphs. Even letter fragments can be fascinating forms. In any case, I second Arafat's proposal for a "letter art" theme of some sort, at the appropriate time, and obviously within the constraints and according to the directives of the Serene and Sovereign Baren Council (:-)), to whose prerogative to ordain such things I cheerfully and most obsequiously (;->) submit. Gregory Robison Arafat Alnaim wrote: > Last week I put a suggestion for discussing an idea > for starting an exchange about LETTER ART. > Exchange in which we explore the richness and beauty > of our languages and multicultural. > Relating to that I have found that this link could be > useful to give more celerity to the Idea. > http://www.letterarts.com/lar/ > > Regards > Arafat > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:15:36 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8058] Egg on Face...Sausage in Ear=20 Well I do have to do some explaining about now. I had forgotten that Julio had some of my exchange prints. So he would know that the Rain Dance was infact cut.... To clearify this ..... it was the light weight paper 6 momme stuff that came to me with two cut edges. As it was a good weight for the small print I used it, so naturally one would think that Scholes cuts his paper. Now to the matter regarding the high speed printers on the Baren...... I just finished a new print and I definitely have saugages in my ears and possibly elsewhere...... I just did 42 prints, 4 miunutes less than an hour. Mind you I wasn't dallying around, so sir, I was going like stink...... It was a simple plate.... actually you can see it as I used the rain plate in Sun Dance http://members.home.net/gscholes/Sundance.html paper size 11 x 8" So on that basis, I guess I am a sausage factory..... I also did another colour requiring bokashi..... add another 45 minutes t= o to the 42 prints. So that works out to be about 20 prints per hour with the bokashi thingie. Ha ha. Now I can take the egg off my face..... Regards, Graham >Hi Graham... > >In your reply to Wanda you write: > >"Some one claimed that I did and did not do certain things. >It seemed to me they were passing judgement having never seen an actual >print and I wanted to explain my approach." > >Since I asked the original question, you must be referring to me. I take= n the >trouble to quote the >original message below....please note I don't say that you do or don't c= ut >your >paper... >I am only referring to making the kento cut lines on the paper....and th= at >your >prints don't seem to have >those real obvious cuts. Since I do own two of your prints...I guess I = have >really seen not one, but >actually two of your "actual" prints. > >However, it seems I was mistaken. Sorry about that! After a second clos= e >look....I did find your very >fine cut kento lines on several places along the top edge on "Rain Dance= ". > >Thanks for the technique tip, I'll keep it in mind next time I have real= rough >edged paper. > >Julio > >........................original message .................... >"I asked a couple of weeks back about the kento cuts on the printed pape= r that >some of the bootcamp graduates are >executing in their prints(#3) but I don't think anyone replied.... > >Now here they are again in exchange #4....I think it's too much >coincidence that >only bootcampers John Amoss, Greg Robison & Wanda Robertson are doing >this so I >know it has to come from Graham's clinic. (but ....Graham's own prints >don't have such paper cuts...!) > >Would anyone like to explain ?, why is the paper being cut ? Is it part = of the >technique or is it an individual thingie....? > > >Curious & with the flu......Thanks...Julio" >............end of original message ........... ------------------------------ From: Studio Dalwood Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:54:36 +1100 Subject: [Baren 8059] Dragons and trees=20 Hi all I finally found time to update the dragon page, I added dragons from Maria and Arafat. Not much in the mailbox this week, sorry. I think I have about a dozen yet to receive. I also put up a page dedicated to the australian dragon card that I have made this last week.=20 See http://www.acay.com.au/~severn/ausdragon.htm And the sacred tree listing of 36 participants is now updated so you can all see who you are. Some people want to stop here, some are happy to keep the exchange open for even more participants. I think that I might compromise here and start a second list if anyone else wants to join. See http://www.acay.com.au/~severn/sacredlist.htm Sorry for being so tardy, bit bizzy here Josephine ------------------------------ From: Cynthia Wilson Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:50:04 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8060] Re: LETTER ART=20 I'll 3rd this one. Letterforms/text are pretty interesting to work with. =20 Humbly and obseqiously yours, Cyndy Wilson On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:39:21 +0300 Gregory Robison writes: > Kampala, 30 January 2000 >=20 > Regarding Arafat's "letter art" proposal: I think that this is rich=20 > with > possibilities and is not necessarily a departure from the hanga=20 > focus of > this list. If properly defined, an exchange with this as a feature > would be fun and in keeping with this traditional marriage of > text/letterforms with pictorial images that is common in oriental=20 > art. > There are many ways letterforms could be represented or insinuated=20 > into > a work -- including "proto-letters" like Barbara's petroglyphs. =20 > Even > letter fragments can be fascinating forms. >=20 > In any case, I second Arafat's proposal for a "letter art" theme of=20 > some > sort, at the appropriate time, and obviously within the constraints=20 > and > according to the directives of the Serene and Sovereign Baren=20 > Council > (:-)), to whose prerogative to ordain such things I cheerfully and=20 > most > obsequiously (;->) submit. >=20 > Gregory Robison > ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:32:33 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8061] Your Exchange 3 print.=20 Sorry it has taken so long to critique your print. It has been a busy time around here..... I must tell you that in a week moment I took on a volunteer job of doing = a newsletter for the local Macintosh users group. Stupid move. What I thought would have taken me a day to put together turns out to be 40 hour= s average on the last three issues. Now I can't quite figure how to get out of the mess..... We're workin on it. Marnie won a Lexmark Laser Printer at a club function last week,which has complicated the issue.... Mind you it has helped to get the job done in house so to speak..... Ok to the task at hand..... I have sent this via the Baren list as I know that a. I will not embarrass you b. Others will benefit from my ramblings. 1st the technique.... I like what you have done and in no way does it take away from the imagin= g. Sure maybe you felt that the green inking wasn't clean and technically right. The squeeze or beading of the ink on the cut edges is a bonus. I= t give the colour wonderful texture and sense of fluidity..... How would you prevent that..... Well more rice paste and less pigment (moisture) on the plate. I suspect that two inkings would be in order an= d it would come off techincally bang on.... Oh and good paper will help yo= u in this regard. The squeegy look may have been caused by the paper being saturate with to much water. There was no place for the pigment to go so it squeeze out and piled up on the cut edges. However the week technique gives this this image a wonderful feeling and = is important to its success. We always have to remind ourselves that technique is secondary to the imagery and the statement. The colour works beautifully. Orange and Green are tough colours to make work. Frederick Varley a member of the Group of Seven was a master at usi= ng them ..... The warm brown figures are well positioned and grouped. The= ir importance is not diminished by the bulls eye shape and even manage to maintain there importance. The critical positioning of the circles, wide= r space at the top than at the right side with the biggest space at the bottom is clearly most important. But then you knew all this and techniq= ue was the only problem concerning you. The last comment is......... Use Good Paper. If you don't have pride in your work and use the very best materials.... Nobody else will. Sincerely, Graham ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:34:32 -0600 Subject: [Baren 8062] re: Letter Art exchange....=20 I also would enjoy doing an exchange on this theme. I have been trying to= do some letter carving and also locating local sources for wood type around here. Not much luck with eith= er one....but I am working on it. Perhaps a smaller size print to combine letters and images....anybody at Baren kn= ows of any type for sale ? How about a letterart ALPHABET where each participant gets to do a specif= ic letter ? Maybe based on the order you signup on the exchange list the letters would be assigned......= with special symbols ($, #, & etc) for participants 27 thru 30. We can each do an uppercase and a lowercase.....just a though= t! Julio ------------------------------ From: Maria Arango Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 15:43:36 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8063] Skokie frames, Kampala, Trees, & new theme=20 I love to see [Baren]'s growing pains! Wait until we have to split into separate countries about 3 years from now due to thousands of members across the galaxies demanding UFO exchanges. A few "hot" items: Exhibitions first, does everyone realize the impact of these exhibitions? [Baren] is building a resume! That is such a step for a group like this, that I am just in awe at all the work that everyone is putting into this. Julio, Gregory, and Josephine, my hats off to you. Many printmaking and artist's groups out there in the world, but few are as active and as prolific as [Baren] is promising to be. Julio is working extremely hard, probably daily, on putting on the Skokie exhibition. What we need from the general membership is to make sure and send those checks for the frames to him right away so that one member does not have to bear the cost. Thanks Gregory for keeping us up to date on the Kampala exhibition, sounds like it is taking off into a huge project. The entire nation seems to be involved! For those of you who have not been keeping up, the Sacred Tree exchange is overflowing already, with decisions having to be made about cutting it off, allowing more people in, or???? Josephine is doing a bang-up job at keeping it all together, and finding out just how tough it is to organize us artists-types into doing anything organized. I also think that what occurred with the Sacred Tree exchange was an excellent way to handle projects without excessively burdening Dave's time and his web-site. It is refreshing to have other members take over these huge projects and allows for more flexibility of media, themes, numbers of participants, etc., etc. As I said, wonderful to grow, although sometimes awkward to make changes to our routines. On that note, the (and I quote :-) > Serene and Sovereign Baren Council > (:-)), to whose prerogative to ordain such things I cheerfully and most > obsequiously (;->) submit. > would like to hear more member's speak out for or against the conceptual art theme. I think, as Arafat suggested and Gregory seconded, that with all our different backgrounds this has the potential to be one of the most interesting exchanges. Response to the newsletter was wonderful and I expect all those articles on my virtual desk by the deadline :-) I would love to see a print-conservation piece (ahem, Jack?) and maybe a curating-a-show piece (ahem, Gregory?). There was also a suggestion for a comic strip, so how about some entries from some of the illustrators out there. Health to all, Maria, HardlySerene and TooShortToBeSovereign Council Member - -- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Maria Arango, Cuttin' & Printin' The Printmaking Studio http://www.printmakingstudio.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------------ From: "John Ryrie" Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:56:19 +1100 Subject: [Baren 8064] Re: Letter Art exchange.... charset=3D"iso-8859-1"=20 ....anybody at Baren knows of > any type for sale ? > Julio > Try this > http://www.chamber.com/apco/ > > > I've also seen a letterpress type exchange group web page, it was US ba= sed John ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:24:32 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8065] Something new.=20 The lastest offering....... http://members.home.net/gscholes/McInnis.html 8 more to go..... Graham ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:28:24 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8066] New studio.=20 Last week or so someone asked about the needs for a studio. If you go have a look at several of my pages. http://members.home.net/woodblocks/ There are several pages that have some thingies I could not do without. Graham ------------------------------ From: B Mason Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 19:31:41 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8067] Re: Something new.=20 Graham, MaInnis Island is lovely, your work is amazing as usual.I wish everyone could see it up close and personal as we boot campers have. Barbara Graham Scholes wrote: > The lastest offering....... > http://members.home.net/gscholes/McInnis.html > 8 more to go..... > > Graham ------------------------------ From: B Mason Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:01:58 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8068] Skokie Show=20 Hello all, Just a quick note to remind you to send the $15 to Julio for the Skokie Library Show in Chicago if you have been in one of the exchanges. Send to: Julio Rodiquez 3801 Dobson Skokie, Illinois USA 60076 The plans Julio has for this show are amazing and so much physical work for him. He will show 90 prints plus a panel on woodblock, a panel on the baren and a dragon panel. Wish some of us lived closer to help. Let's show our appreciation by getting a check off to him so he won't be stuck for this large amount of money on his Visa card. Baren is getting a reputation as the internet group that does things! Shows in the USA and Uganda and ???? What a great group to belong to! Best to all of you Barbara, finally over the flu and council-member ------------------------------ From: Aqua4tis@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:10:52 EST Subject: [Baren 8069] Re: Letter Art exchange....=20 In a message dated 01/30/2000 3:36:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,=20 Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com writes: > How about a letterart ALPHABET where each participant gets to do a spec= ific > letter ? Maybe based on the > order you signup on the exchange list the letters would be assigned...= ... > with > special symbols ($, #, & etc) for participants > 27 thru 30. We can each do an uppercase and a lowercase.....just a tho= ught! > =20 julio =20 i love this idea but i think we have to space these things farther apa= rt =20 i want to do the sacred tree but this also sounds very interesting =20 georga ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:52:10 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8070] Re: Letter Art exchange....=20 Gees do I wish I had more time as I would love to get in on this one. Let me see now ..... I have 216 fonts in my systems folder and 23 CD's with 250,000 images of which 11,600 are assorted fonts. Let me at it...... Alas no time...... Graham ------------------------------ From: Arafat Alnaim Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:16:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Baren 8071] Re: Letter Art exchange....=20 Thanks for the input of Baren members on this theme.=20 Greek, Arabic, Hebrew, Japanese, Cyrillic, English and others letters possibilities could be explored in this exchange. Each one of us could show how to composite cut, engrave and print a work on the base of letters. I don=92t mean that we should use the traditional forms of the letters, we can reconstruct even invent some thing different. This should be inspiring us not tied our hands. It isn=92t a calligraphic question to see one others skills at this. It=92s a meter of who every one of us could investigate the possibilities of his language, culture to be inspired and creating an art work on this base. I =91m dealing with the same letter that you are using in a different way, even using it to create new shape which is not lateral at all. =20 Lets look for the impact of our letters, language and culture on this exchange.=20 =20 Regards Arafat __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: John and Jan Telfer Date: Mon, 31 Jan 00 19:46:51 -0000 Subject: [Baren 8072] Re:Prints per day=20 How do you all print so many per day? My A3 size block (43x30cm) using=20 oil base ink (Graphic Chemical) and either Kozo or more recently Fabriano= =20 120gm or similar paper, I can only print 10 to 15 a day before my=20 shoulders need to be put into "slings"...sometimes they are even too sore= =20 to print on consecutive days! So getting one of mine...could be=20 priceless!!! Hahahahahaha! Please don't start an Exchange for Language/Calligraphy/Text just yet=20 ...this is my "Pet subject" and I am committed to two other print=20 exchanges at present..and my dinner is burning Cheers, Jan ------------------------------ From: michael schneider Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:19:22 +0100 Subject: [Baren 8073] Re: Skokie frames, Kampala, Trees, & new theme=20 Maria Arango wrote: > I love to see [Baren]'s growing pains! > Maria > -- Reading the suggestions of David and the statements to the growing and re-organization of baren, I did and do feel a little bit unease. What see= ms to happen is a sort of institutionalization of a forum that started as gr= oup of equals to discuss relief printmaking and related topics. It is not tha= t I do not recognize the differences in experience and craftsmanship of the different members of baren, but for my part, I liked the idea that enthus= iasm for the medium and respect to each others artwork gives everybody the sam= e position within the group. The introduction of a hierarchical structure d= oes not help to maintain this status. There is no doubt that it is necessary to take off some of the "baren-bur= den" of David's shoulders, but I question the way that has been chosen, althou= gh I admit that in the moment I have no alternative ready to propose. But I se= e the necessity to point out, that not alone the number of baren members is= a indication of success but the quality of the discussions. One reason that baren could keep up this quality, I see in the fact, that the above menti= oned equality helped to make access easy and did not discriminate new, or in printmaking not so experienced members to speak out . There never should = be a reason that gives members the feeling, that they have to proof something before they are "allowed" to speak out. I do recognize the fascination that lies within the numerous "exchange projects", but I fear that when the actual "speed" in creating new projec= ts is kept up, the forum will end as "woodblock print exchange bbs". I hope you did not get me wrong, it is not ignorance towards the work of = the members who organize the exchanges, or the members that are willing to contribute by working on the council. It's the growing pains i am talking about. michael ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V10 #883 ****************************