[Baren} the mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking Baren Digest Thursday, 1 June 2000 Volume 11 : Number1029 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bella1yopp@aol.com Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 12:01:24 EDT Subject: [Baren 9859] Re: Laser cutting. > If I could only get this damn android of mine to turn the >computer on in the morning, then I'd have something....... A little extreme don't you think. You know I really enjoyed that movie Pleasentville, I believe it spoke of the same kind of thinking. To each his own... With all the great technology that has already landed on our heads, we (artists) seem to be doing all right ... although it has been an adjustment for some, it has been a blessing for others. Personally I have difficultly calling graphic art or a morphed Mona Lisa "art"... however, as I have tried my hand at Photoshop I am learning to accept these new fangeled devices and have fun. >Laser cutting contraptions don't make bad prints, printmakers make bad >prints. YEAH, WHAT HE SAID! Well, I am off to hand carve my next block and then handprint it. So just because someone embraces technology does not mean that they are embracing a loss of originality. Maybe through technology we will have a "new" movement in art. Like finger nails on chalkboard? I find it intriguing, all the whil e - -I will be taking bits and pieces from technology but I doubt I will ever submerse myself into it. Oh what fun! - -Amanda ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Wed, 31 May 00 09:53:41 -0800 Subject: [Baren 9860] Re: Corel Draw TSHack >$90 bucks is good deal as Maria says. Depending on your worth of a $ these >days you should probably get it and deal with the fact that Corel is not Before you buy..... consider this. Today and tomorrow you do all these graphics with Corel Draw. The next day Corel no longer supports the software and or you upgrade your computer and the software is not compatible. Now the problems you face is how do you access all the data. Not a wise move. False economy. Graham ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Wed, 31 May 00 10:02:25 -0800 Subject: [Baren 9861] Lazy >Second,(Graham) before you call anyone lazy, you should respect your own >age first and know his work up to now second, just in case you don't want >to be known as one who knows not what he is talking about. You have lost me with this statement. I don't understand what you are writing. I recognize that English is not your first language, s before I comment I would want to understand what you mean. I think you have taken exception to the term Lazy. Graham ------------------------------ From: barbara patera Date: Wed, 31 May 100 11:02:57 Pacific Daylight Time Subject: [Baren 9862] re: pencil signatures Couldn't it just be a tradition? One of those things that get done this way just because Great Grandpa did thus.... Barbara P. ------------------------------ From: BHearn 01@aol.com Date: Wed, 31 May 00 15:12:55 EDT Subject: [Baren 9863] Re: Baren Digest V11 #1028 Does anyone know of who prints nice american flag prints? Cpontemporary? About 16x . Woodcuts? or silk screen. Anything that you would want to hang decoratively behind glass and something that has that nice hand done edge to it. Maybe also a version that substitutes the blue field with stars with a green field with artichokes, apples or something. Barbara HEarn ------------------------------ From: severn Date: Thu, 01 Jun 00 07:43:13 +1000 Subject: [Baren 9864] Junin Toiro WOOOHOOOO! Its here. The little box. All the way around the world and back again. The outer box was a bit crushed in places and some of the prints were creased on the edges but Hey! they came a long long way and I'm glad they made it in one piece. Now am I missing something here but I thought that post an exchange arrival there was supposed to be a flurry of mails gasbagging about the prints? Its been very quiet on this topic both on and offlist. Its true, the prints in real life are different again from their reproductions on the web. Very nice guys. I'm going to take them to see an old woodblock friend of mine. I'm trying to convince him he should join baren but like many artists he's a computer phobe. So I have to get him on the net first, no small task. Thankyou everyone. Josephine ------------------------------ From: "pwalls1234" Date: Wed, 31 May 00 17:02:55 -0500 Subject: [Baren 9865] Re: Corel Draw TSHack >The next day Corel no longer supports the software and or you upgrade >your computer and the software is not compatible. >Now the problems you face is how do you access all the data. Please.. . . . A fine computer savy fellow like yourself can surely figure this out. next. >Not a wise move. >False economy $90 to one artist may be hard to come by, but for the RICHHHH one or two go ahead and buy photoshop, instead of that new satellite dish or Calphlon cookware. I think splurging $90 buckaroos for a program that may or may not make it 2-10 years is an okay move. SHiiii. . . if it lasts 1 one year and you made some wonderful discoveries so be it! Maybe even make some wonderful stuff and sell enough to buy a real program, a new computer, a laser-cutting thing-a-ma-jig. skies the limit- ;-) pete eatin' beans and rice in louisiana cause I bought photoshop and a new CPU ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Wed, 31 May 00 15:27:05 -0800 Subject: [Baren 9866] Re: Corel Draw TSHack >Now the problems you face is how do you access all the data. eatin' beans Pete wrote > Please.. . . . A fine computer savy fellow like yourself can surely >figure this out. next. No I don't ..... please tell me. You see, I use to used Ready Set Go for 5+years and they did not keep up to date with there software and nowit is not on the market. I have several documents that I cannot access. Please tell me how to get at the data in these documents. I would be forever grateful. >. I think splurging $90 buckaroos for a program that may >or may not make it 2-10 years is an okay move. You can consider Photoshop LE ..... this come very cheap here and often free with a scanner or other software. It will let us non professional do some serious work. So you really don't need to go the Corel route. Graham/Victoria BC An Island in the Pacific ------------------------------ From: severn Date: Thu, 01 Jun 00 08:53:54 +1000 Subject: [Baren 9867] Pillow book I just did a search on www.google.com (love that google!) and found this snipped from a review of greenaway's film. "His latest complex, tactile and carnal masterpiece Pillow Book celebrates both the pleasures of the flesh and the fine art of calligraphy. Based on a 10th century Japanese Shonagon 'Pillow Book' (a diary), that chronicles lists, reminiscences, literary quotes and sexual adventures, it also chronicles the life of a beautiful and obsessive Japanese woman, Nagiko (Vivian Wu) and her own modern day version based on the ritualistic tradition." And a search on the author Sei Shonagon found me this http://mh105.infi.net/~ddisse/shonagon.html Now I just need to find me a hard copy. Josephine ------------------------------ From: "Maria Arango" Date: Wed, 31 May 00 17: :36 -0700 Subject: [Baren 9868] Re: Junin Toiro Josephine wrote: > Its true, the prints in real life are different again from their > reproductions on the web. Very nice guys. I'm going to take them to see > an old woodblock friend of mine. There are my two very favorite activities after getting back an exchange. I scrutinize all the prints for technique, not to critique, but to learn from and pick up tips. I look at all the images from far away, close-up, again with an open mind and a child-like-neato attitude to see what everyone came up with. Then I like to match personalities, from what I know through the posts, to the prints and the chosen imagery, the paper, the strength of color and ink, the thousand choices that we make when making a print. I am always pleased and surprised; always learn something, often many things. The other activity is to show everyone, my husband first (poor thang), then other printmakers if I can find them, students from my workshops, anyone I can grab on the street... Feels good to be a part of this and as I look at my four neat cases with the exchanges, I wonder how many I will have in a few years. What a wonderful collection we are making, folks! Maria <><><><><><><><><><><><> Maria Arango, Printmaker Las Vegas Nevada USA http://www.printmakingstudio.com maria@mariarango.com mariten@lvcm.com <><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------------ From: "TSHACK" Date: Wed, 31 May 00 19:06:02 -0700 Subject: [Baren 9869] Re: Corel Draw TSHack > days you should probably get it and deal with the fact that Corel is not > going to be there for updates, support, and the such. I only say this Why do you say that? They do charge for support I think, but there are also newsgroups to help out. ------------------------------ From: "TSHACK" Date: Wed, 31 May 00 19:13:40 -0700 Subject: [Baren 9870] Re: Corel Draw TSHack > You can consider Photoshop LE ..... this come very cheap here and > often free with a scanner or other software. It will let us non > professional do some serious work. > So you really don't need to go the Corel route. Corel Draw is vector based. Corel Paint is pixel based. You'd have to buy Illustrator along with Photoshop to get the same. Plus, Corel is supposed to be easier to use, and accepts all the photoshop filters. Regarding Corel not being there, I'm not sure if you folks are thinking this is some little knockoff company or something. They've been around in the graphics field for a couple of decades, and are seen as the less expensive alternative to Adobe, and are getting better all the time. I'm not trying to be a Corel apologist or cheerleader, but I'm just wondering what someof the comments are based on. I haven't used the package much yet, and can't compare it to photoshop since it is a vector package, not pixel. You can also upgrade directly to version 9.0 for $189. Anyway, I'm not trying to take a stance here, but am interested in why folks think Corel will not be around. Of course, this is somewhat off topic, so.... ------------------------------ From: James G Mundie Date: Wed, 31 May 00 23:29:13 -0400 Subject: [Baren 9871] pencil signing Graham said: >Pencil is because it is archieval..... graphite will not change with time. Yes, that is also true, but I still believe the act of actually signing the darn thing advertises the artist's word that this is legit; hence, pencil (which is also archival) becomes the perfect medium because it is still necessary in this day and age (until robots become more dexterous) for a human to actually handle a pencil in order to make a pencil mark. Also, as pencil is something that is easily erased, the mark itself becomes more 'precious'. >signing. Load the computer with an assortment of signatures and the >these are fed randomly to the plotter...... >I have seen proof to this ..... a print with two signatures. Perhaps, but that just proves the point further -- these criminals went the extra mile to approximate a mark of authenticity in order to lure in a buyer. Would have been cheaper and easier to have the summer intern forge a signature on each sheet. Actually, I think it far more likely in the case you mention that they scanned a piece of artwork that already had been signed, reproduced it (with signature in place) and then the chumps carelessly signed it for real in pencil. You see this sort of crap all the time when somebody has one of their watercolor paintings reproduced as a limited edition -- "only 14,000 copies, folks"-- 'fine art print'. Ick. James Mundie, Philadelphia USA ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Wed, 31 May 00 23:04:22 -0500 Subject: [Baren 9872] David's work Thinking here about all the current topics being discussed. Thanks to all who shared the "secrets" to the signature....had never thought about it much. Yes Jo. True to form with every exchange so far, there is usually more mail about the exchanges the weeks prior to their completion....than the weeks after their arrival. WHY is that ? Regarding David's subscription process. What I say here are just my personal thoughts on the matter. I don't know of anyone else here (or anywhere else!) who is guaranteed to have his/her "edition" sold out...prior to printing....prior to conception !.......with the exception of David. I use the word edition loosely...of course. But it must be a great feeling to know on "print day" that everyone of those 100- 0 prints is going to a good home. What a tremendous accomplishment....and yet I dare not think of the work and pressure involved. Perhaps the word "presure" is not the right word. Let me explain. Perhaps to David...it is business as usual...another month, another print.... xerox, cut, print, dry....mail..............a craftsman working at his craft and getting better with each new set of prints. But.....because of the subscription method involved, David has total control of subject matter, size, artist and overall print quality. As a subscriber, I am usually pleasantly surprised with every new print, and I say usually...because sometimes I peek on the web before my actual prints arrive.....not because I have ever been dissastified with the work. I must admit to a certain child-like anticipation as I open the new arrival (usually in the car right outside the post office)...not unlike a child opening up a Xmas present. Precisely because the prints are already "sold" I would think David has (or thinks he has!) a certain higher responsibility toward his subscribers. For most printmakers...the print is conceived, created, then promoted, then sold...someone likes it for what it is, for who made it, for the technical and artistic value, whatever.....but the decision to purchase is made after seeing the final product ....with all it's wonderment and.... all it's flaws. Perhaps it never sells. The artist's responsibility is only unto himself....and the public will purchase the work based on personal likes/dislikes and other motives. That is not the case with the subscription method. While David will choose the works..both because of his preference for an artist or a subject and the technical challenges ahead.... I think he must also be thinking of those two hundred subscribers out there.....maybe some of them would not like to see ten prints by Hokusai....or ten prints of men working in the fields....or ten portraits...etc. To be making reproductions of past masters in modern day Japan...and be so successful at it.....in my opinion is no small shinhanga. It is in that sense that I use the word "pressure", for while he must first please and challenge himself with the work...he must also contend with the scrutiny of his already waiting audience. Julio ps. the word shinhanga is used loosely....it's the subject of a new cyber gallery I will be opening up soon... besides....my spell-checker can't spell potatoes ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Thu, 01 Jun 00 16:15:53 +0900 Subject: [Baren 9873] Re: David's work Julio wrote about my subscription prints: > ... What a tremendous accomplishment....and > yet I dare not think of the work and pressure involved. And Greg also mentioned something similar the other day ... > Whenever you tell someone -- as you do in the subscription > approach -- that you're "going to do something" in the future, > you incur a liability. Both of these postings were very interesting for me to read. The sort of feedback I get from the subscribers here in Japan is generally of the "Oh, last month's print was beautiful!" type. Kind words yes, and of course they warm my heart, but it is rare to have anybody speak with a little more 'depth' about what I do. I have to say right off the bat that I do not feel much pressure 'on behalf' of the subscribers, and the idea that I have incurred a 'liability' is one that honestly had never occurred to me until Greg used the word. I have more the feeling that the subscribers and myself are 'in this together', rather than being in a relationship of 'contractor' and 'client'. Maybe I'm fooling myself somehow here, because on the face of it the transaction is a simple 'sale' of pieces of paper in exchange for cash, but it somehow just doesn't feel like that. The fact that my prints are already 'sold' before they are made makes the work both easier and more difficult: - - Easier, because of course there is no stress about where my 'bread' is coming from next month. If I screw up, the 'bread' would indeed stop coming in, and I would be in trouble in the long term, but I have no immediate day-to-day financial worry. Not too many full-time printmakers can enjoy that feeling. - - More difficult, because I do have a responsibility to (at least) maintain the standard of work that I have set. Not to do so would be negligence, and would be cheating the collectors. A person working without advance orders for his work has no such responsibility - if he screws up the next print, he can simply shrug his shoulders and toss it out. "Win some, lose some." But this allows him the freedom to experiment _without fear of failure_. I too, do plenty of experimenting (I must, to learn new techniques), but I'm on a tightrope with no net ... I guess this is the 'liablility' and 'pressure' that Julio and Greg are talking about, but as I said, I don't feel it that way. I'm just having fun making nifty prints. All in all, I think this is a pretty good way to work. Most of the men of my general age whom I see around me in my neighbourhood (I am 48) sort of seem to be just 'hanging in there' until they can retire. I suspect a bit of work 'without a net' wouldn't do them any harm ... > While David will choose the works..both because of his preference for > an artist or a subject and the technical challenges ahead.... I think he must > also be thinking of those two hundred subscribers out there... Please don't be upset Julio if I say 'not really'. With this many collectors taking my prints, it's just not practical to start thinking "Hmmm, I think Julio would like to see a Hasui reproduction next month ...", or something like that. But I don't _need_ to. All I have to do is think of my _own_ desires and likes and interests! The people who subscribe to my print sets do so because they like my 'sort of stuff' (in a general way), and not because of any specific prints I choose. In each set of ten it will be inevitable that there will be prints that they are not so attracted to ... and some that they very much enjoy. All I have to do is continue to 'please myself', and maintain a good variety (the same thing, really) and I think they will be happy. So in this sense, I think that my work is perhaps not so different from that of a 'normal' artist - a person sitting in a room, trying to create work that pleases ... himself! Is this ridiculously selfish? Maybe. Perhaps this is really the same point that I tried to make a moment ago - that the subscribers and I are simply similar people 'working' together on this project. Matsumura-san supplies the woodblocks, Iwano-san sends paper, Misawa-san does the sizing, I provide the carving and printing labour, etc. etc., and the collectors provide the financing that enables all these components to be brought together. This is why you will find so many 'credits' in the completed albums ... (But only my mame goes up in lights on the front cover! Hey, there just isn't _room_ there for any more ...) Dave (apologies to the group, for again talking so much about my own work ...) ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Thu, 1 Jun 00 02:48:24 -0500 Subject: [Baren 9874] a handful of stuff During these last days.....there has been a great deal of discussion on "how" prints are made or how they should or should not be made.....but not much on "why". I read somewhere.........that a print does not actually come into existence until ink & pressure are actually applied to the paper. This simple act (however carried out) is all that is required to create "a print". Even the simplest and most amazing of all prints...the fingerprint...is the act of reversing the matrix and applying pressure and ink to paper. The hands are but an extension of the brain, an attachment of sorts, a tool . For some of us, a way to transfer the creative process from mind to wood, to paper. For others, the hands are incapable (or untrained) of the work involved and they turn to other tools for compensation. Regardless the tool, the artist must reconcile the image conceived with the image created. It is this reconciliation (with allowance for the creative process) that determines success. If all you ever did was cut a piece of wood with your hands, you would not be printmaker but rather a woodblock maker. Julio ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V11 #1029 *****************************