[Baren} the mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking Baren Digest Friday, 2 June 2000 Volume 11 : Number1031 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Graham Scholes Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 22:18:35 -0700 Subject: [Baren 9889] Re: more Handy stuff! >As a young college kid of the present, I would like to say that I already >look at a lot of the stuff y'all do and ask that question. > >--Pete Well how about that Philip.... a prophet in our time. Congratulations. Graham ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 22:37:12 -0700 Subject: [Baren 9890] Re: Contibution to"editioning" >'appropriation' ... not in my dictionary ... > >Dave I am with you on this one Dave. But the fact is artist here have to live with it. I have seen some wonderful work done by non aboriginals which is an interpretation of their art which went beyond the traditional image. The person, a very good friend, was drummed (sorry) out of fine arts and is now doing graphic and sign art. Graham ------------------------------ From: B Mason Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 22:44:26 -0700 Subject: [Baren 9891] lunch and prints Wanda and I had a great afternoon looking at Japanese prints at the Gilkey Center. I am happy to add that Gordon Gilkey is feeling almost as good as new after his colon cancer surgery and it was reported to us that after he looked at the exchange prints they are archiving he commented "Where are the rest of them"? You would have to know him to appreciate how back to normal this is for him, he never met a print he didn't like and pulls them into his collection with the enthusiasm of a dog going after a bone. I have yet to bring in #1 which I will get from Graham at boot camp and I forgot to take #5 in my rush to leave home to look at prints. We saw two Hasui prints, they were really wonderful. Then we looked at about 10 Yoshida prints, also wonderful. The Hirishoge (spell?) prints were very uneven, several were quite good, great color and line work, nice bokashi work, and several were very amaturish looking. We had to assume they were early prints? or perhaps printed after his death? They almost had a cookie cutter quality to them. We discovered the Museum has 900 Japanese prints so I don't know how this stacks up with other museums. Wanda and I discussed going to Powells Books, she decided to go home and I made the mistake of going to Powells books alone. Someone must have brought in their colleciton of Japanese woodblock books yesterday, I have been many times and rarely see more than one or two books. I won't tell anyone how much money I left there, but have quite a few nice books now. I also looked in the rare book room and they had a Hokasi (I am unsure of the spelling) Sketch book from Mitchner, only $350. It was pretty nice, very thin paper with wonderful sketches, quite a book for the serious collector and in excellent condition. Whoever owned it obviously never spent much time reading it. So if anyone is interested in this book, Powells probably still has it. Wanda and I had such a good time looking at the prints, we plan to go back soon and do it again! We are both inspired and humbled but not discouraged, we will do our own thing and it will be different and wonderful in it's own way. Barbara M ------------------------------ From: B Mason Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 23:00:53 -0700 Subject: [Baren 9892] aboriginal art Graham, I did not know it was a law in Canada that you cannot use any Native images if you are not Native. Here in the States it is frowned upon, but I don't think it has been legislated against. I have many Native American friends and am Nez Perce back so far it doesn't count to anyone. I use the petroglyph images from all over the world in my work and have never had anyone say anything to me about this. I am however careful to not use any contemporary Native American images (the last 300 yrs) in my work as I do not want to be thought of as taking anyone's images. I can usually modify the old petroglyphs and it is wonderful to have these old cave paintings and rock carvings as a starting point. I feel we are all one people and why should anything belong to specifically one group? I think here in the States the Native Americans have gotten a pretty bad deal for many, many years and they feel this art at least is one of the last vestiges of their own culture and so they hate anyone else using it. I see their point, but am not in agreement. However I respect them too much to use their images, even though I am really drawn to them. I would hate to be drummed out of fine art into that evil world of Graphics so I will be doubly careful! Barbara M ------------------------------ From: =?iso-8859-1?q?dimitris=20grammatikopulos?= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 02:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Baren 9894] Witch hunting... 1.Whoever thinks that a computer can create anything by itself doesn't know a single thing about computers. 2.Why is a person fond of old times buy inks,tools,etc. ready-made? My explanation of the phenomenon (besides him being a hypocrit,of course): let's catch some of the old masters aura. Which leads me to think that a conclusion I've come to, proves itself once more: common people need a limit(person, situation, achievement,...) they can't reach, so there will be a point where they will be given an excuse to quit trying. They adore the unreachable because it justifies their lack of will to try further. Of course my next statement is purely rhetorical, but I think Durer or Hokusai, hardly would they have resisted the temptation of using all the 20th century materials...As if Motzart wouldn't have used a Roland. As for Philip's retorter: some years ago he would have retorted : 'burn the witch'... regards, Dimitris ...Let's hope the retort from the rear is not: > "big deal, it was done on a computer". ------------------------------ From: "Michelle D. Hudson" Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 05:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Baren 9895] Native American images (from Ray H in Vermont) Just a quick note. In the exhibit Agayuliyararput: Our Way of Making Prayer, The Living Tradition of Yup'ik Masks, which was organized with the active participation of Yup'ik people, there wwere severeal works included by American and European artists whose work was influenced by seeing these amazing masks (Toby, Ernst, Label & several Surrealists). The people seemed quite pleased that their masks were recognized by others to the extent of influencing their work. Of course, the appropriation of images from another culture is fraught with dangers. All the best, Ray ------------------------------ From: Catherine Hockings & Gerald Soworka Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 20:15:46 +1000 Subject: [Baren 9896] Re: Starving artists and appropriation > Graham wrote: > why are there so many starving artists? There aren't. Being an artist is largely a middle class indulgence. Many artists don't make much out of their art, but even those who are not financially wealthy have the psychological and ideological riches of their relatively affluent background. Even such a quitessential example of the "starving artist" as Van Gogh chose to spend much of his stipend/allowance on paints and canvas rather than food. he didn't have to work for a living. It's insulting to the genuinely starving in the world to perpetuate such ridiculous and self-absorbed fallacies. > Dave wrote > A second point (and one that I would think should be applicable to your > Indian/Eskimo example), is the fact that having a foreigner come in here > and dig so intensively into this tradition, is a matter of _pride_ for > them. > > 'appropriation' ... not in my dictionary ... > The essential issue regarding appropriation is one of the relative power imbalance between the two cultures involved. When people from a dominant (dominating) culture steal and exploit the cultural capital of a powerless, subordinated group there are real, important concerns of ownership and rights there. This is the difference between you working in Japanese iconography and you doing aboriginal motifs. Gerald ------------------------------ From: "eli griggs" Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:08:00 -0400 Subject: [Baren 9897] Re: Starving artists and appropriation I think this N.Y. Times Article might be of interest to some. http://www.nytimes.com/library/arts/060100beinnale-art.html Eli Griggs Charlotte N.C. USA ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 20:19:20 +0900 Subject: [Baren 9898] Re: Appropriation Gerald wrote: > When people from a dominant (dominating) culture steal and > exploit the cultural capital of a powerless, subordinated group > there are real, important concerns of ownership and rights there. Interesting point, and something I hadn't considered. Can one 'steal' a cultural tradition though? In the case of something physical like the _land_ itself, of course this point is most valid - the strong may come in and take from the weak. Such behaviour can be considered indefensible. But surely, to _use_ some particular cultural iconography is not to _steal_ it. A visual image is something that may be duplicated infinitely ... To have an 'outsider' using something like a totem pole design (say) in his art, in no way detracts from the ability of the minority member to use it. I would have thought that the 'new blood' being brought to the iconography would have been appreciated, rather than decried ... Interesting ... Dave ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V11 #1031 *****************************