[Baren] the mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking

Baren Digest              Wednesday, 26 April 2000      Volume 11 : Number 988


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From: Gayle Wohlken <blueman@pantek.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:28:31 -0400
Subject: [Baren 9491] Re: Baren Digest V11 #987 

Baren is such an educational place, I think fees would change its
character in a negative way.  But sending money to an exhibit
coordinator seems fair.  I think maybe we could be asked if we want our
piece shown, then upon agreement, a fee could be asked by the
coordinator to cover the cost of including that piece (or
pieces).  

Gayle
Burton Ohio (USA)

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From: "Jeanne Norman Chase" <studiojnc@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:07:44 -0400
Subject: [Baren 9492] Re: paper storage

Jack
I have never heard of acid free cardboard. Is there some other name for this
product?  I use cardboard frequently and this would be a great help for me
so as not to worry about the paper. I use glasseine to store the prints but
use cardboard for separating them.

The best comment re; the exhibitions was something like "you pay if you
display". It is simple and would not complicate things. I also think that
the coordinator should be given a standard fee for shipping the work back.
Say $10.  I know that sometimes it will cost a little more to ship the boxes
back to the sender. Sometimes paper, tape and other products are used by the
coordinator. This seems uncomplicated and fair and let us not get into the
Treasurer thing , then next we will be electing officers, committees , etc,
etc, . Just keep it simple but fare!!!

Jeanne N.

Kudos to Maria for the Baren Suju!!!!!   I am printing my "editions " out
for a notebook.

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From: "Jeanne Norman Chase" <studiojnc@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:19:32 -0400
Subject: [Baren 9493] Extra Prints

I think that someone mentioned once that in each exchange we should send one
extra print. Instead of the usual 30, we could send 31. In that way, just in
case a museum, collector, gallery coordinator or what ever, would have the
prints and the person responsible for the event would not have to give up
their prints as I think, Graham did and someone else??

Nothing was said after this, but I think it was a great idea.

Jeanne N.

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From: amoss@mindspring.com (John Amoss)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:35:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Baren 9494] my lowly crab 

>Yet,folks, I remember John Amoss's crab print that was his first ever hanga
>with no teacher except what he learned right on Baren.  It looked
>wonderful, but I don't know how difficult it was for him to produce that
>first hanga print.  Maybe he will jump in here and tell us.

Thank you Gail. But look at Joe Sheridan and others' beginning prints!!

I do remember feeling so lost and incompetent during that first attempt.
Forgive me for the following mushy response:

The valuable lesson I learned during those times while suffering from
frustration and ignorance was that I was 'preparing the soil'- which means
a lot of work. Nothing was sprouting yet, everything was dug up, exposed,
akward, ugly and raw (and still is by the way).

I was just waiting for a few seeds which came in the form of personal
instruction (from those living and dead) along with good tools, wood,
paper, etc. Encouragement was like water and sunshine (which comes and
goes).

- ---

As I am teaching a hanga class right now, I realize by watching everyone
work, how difficult it all is- not just the 'doing' so much as it is having
faith that something will eventually sprout from these blocks...

So, Grasshopper: Are we shaping the wood or is it shaping us?

OK, OK!!!! Cut the sitar! That's enough mush!!!

- -John A.

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From: B Mason <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:03:47 -0700
Subject: [Baren 9495] Re: Extra Prints 

Jeanne Norman Chase wrote:
> I think that someone mentioned once that in each exchange we should send one
> extra print. Instead of the usual 30, we could send 31.

Jeanne, you are right. we need one extra print for the archives in the Portland
Art Museum so we can keep them up to date. so far we have all five exchanges, #1
from Graham, #2,4,and 5 from me and we had an extra #3 as one person dropped
out. since I am not in exchange #6, please remember to make one for the archives
or it will stop with 5 and have a hole. I cannot be guaranteed a place in all
exchanges, so remember to do this, please.
Barbara

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From: B Mason <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:22:55 -0700
Subject: [Baren 9496] Oysters? 

Gayle,
I almost fell off my chair laughing about the oyster shucker, Lee had to
come and read your post to see what was so funny. Printmaking truly is
inspiring and does take over every aspect of your life, you are always
thinking about it!
Barbara

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From: Bella1yopp@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:10:52 EDT
Subject: [Baren 9498] Re: Looking for a site 

Beth_LaCour@yavapai.cc.az.us writes:

>I think you are referring to Printmaking Links at MTSU Here is the link:

>http://www.mtsu.edu/~art/printmaking/print_links.html

Thank you thank you thank you!! This is the site.  I love this site.
Thank you again,
Amanda

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From: John and Jan Telfer <jtelfer@iinet.net.au>
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 00 00:38:32 -0000
Subject: [Baren 9499] Re:Costs and Exhibitions

A thought from another Australian.....

The cost of sending anything from Australia to other parts of the world 
will be expensive unless it is "shipped", but to participate in any 
Exchange that is our choice..we don't have to do it, but I don't mind 
paying to join in.  I have been sending my return postage coverage in 
Bank Cheques in US$ which adds more cost to the postage...once it has 
gone, I heave a big sigh of relief and inticipate my return exciting 
package.  I could move to the USA, but I like it here in the sunny West, 
Down Under.  I am happy to pay my postage to participate thank you.

Our Printmakers Association here in Perth sent an Exchange Exhibition to 
Malaspina Printmakers Society, Vancouver, Canada (Graham, your 
terrritory) and the Whitbread Yatching Classic in Portsmouth, UK, but 
from here we had them mounted only to be put into ready made frames in 
Canada and the UK and they recipricated...Air freight in a wooden packing 
case from an Art Framers. Maybe one day we could do the same with Baren 
Members.

I am a happy little Vegemite and happy to pay my way.
Jan

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From: Bella1yopp@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:25:04 EDT
Subject: [Baren 9500] registration 

I am starting some new prints that will be reductive oil based prints, 16 x 
20.  I am looking for a good technique of registration for bleed prints of 
this size... being handprinted with baren and a wooden spoon.  Any 
suggestions?  I did look into the baren encyclopedia and found one way that 
might work... just wanted to see what other suggestions might be out there.
- -Amanda

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From: "Philip Smith" <smithart@pacifier.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:44:10 -0700
Subject: [Baren 9501] Re: registration

Hello Amanda,.......Here's a registration method I read about and tried and
it works for me,...although I am buried in a pile of corrections these days
and haven't had a chance to apply it to an actual print,....the dot method.
You must have a two sided frame to slide your printing block against, and
hanga or on a press everything has to be sqaure,.....on one of the frame
members you draw a line parallel line to your image,a nice comfortable
distance, about 2", along this line you place a single dot, very small [the
fellow in the book taped a little piece of paper to the frame member for
this, to see the dot better I guess]....and about 1" from one end of where
the paper will be,....as you lay the paper down a dot is made on the
printing paper, back side,...the two dots are now kissing,......so you now
line up each sheet of paper on the initial line drawn at the position where
the two dots kiss,....vola! Registration!  Philip.

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From: "Maria Arango" <maria@mariarango.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:51:39 -0700
Subject: [Baren 9502] Re: registration

Amanda,
Check out
http://www.printmakingstudio.com/Studionotes/registration/resgister1.html
and see if it helps a little.
Maria

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From: Pedrobot@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:44:05 EDT
Subject: [Baren 9503] Re: registration 

A method of registration I've seen used with some success is to pin (using 
thumbtacks, pushpins, whatever) your paper to a registration jig (a corner of 
wood with a right angle).  Then, for each print, you just lift up the paper 
and slide the block underneath.  The pinholes remain constant.

A variation on this that would work for a bleed print would be to tape 
another small piece of paper to the back of your main one, and put the pin 
holes through that.

- --Pete

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From: Jack Reisland <reislandj001@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:55:15 -1000
Subject: [Baren 9504] Re: paper storage 

Jeanne Norman Chase wrote:

> Jack
> I have never heard of acid free cardboard. 

Ok, I mean acid free matt board or Museum board. Not that nasty corrugated
cardboard.

Jack



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From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:55:37 -0500
Subject: [Baren 9505] more on Skokie expenses.... 

David writes:

"Many of you have spoken up offering donations to help Julio on this, and
I am gratified to see this kind of support offered. In the case of the
Skokie show, we could not 'demand' a participation fee, because it was
being done 'retroactively' as it were - people who signed up for the
early exchanges had no idea that their prints would be part of such a
display...."

Thanks Dave. This is a point that perhaps I did not make clear on the last post
and
on earlier posts concerning the exhibit. Precisely due to this retro aspect of
the Skokie
Exhibit, contributions were always on an volunteer  basis. I could-not
/would-not go out and put
a show together and demand people to send me money.

 Another aspect to consider is that the size of the exhibit grew exponentially
everytime I sneezed.
 What  started out as a 60 prints exhibition (one print per exchange
participant) doubled by opening
day to 130+ prints, tools/blocks display and dragon cards..great show, but more
expensive than when
first planned. I wanted to include the dragon cards and I also invited some
non-exchange bareners to
participate.  As long as the wall space was available I felt this was a great
opportunity to exhibit all the
exchanges; something I could not pass up.

Earlier on several options were considered.....selected prints only,
one-print-per-artist, prints by category,
 featuring selected artists only.....etc... in the end I am happy that I kept
the exchanges whole and together while also
able to feature a few non-exchange artists on the intro wall.  Thanks to the
generosity of Dave, Maria and Sharen who loaned me tools blocks and additonal
prints...we were also able to put together a pretty decent display area.

I should clear up several issues regarding contributions, etc.

 First, no contributions were asked from the dragon people. This was a little
side display I wanted to do for fun, which turned out to be very well received
by the children at the library (kids can't help but to stop on the way up the
stairs to Youth Services and point out their favorite dragons to their
parents!!!!).

  The problem with sending money from overseas is a real one and in lieu of
money quite a few of you worked out
other arrangements with me. Many of you simply said.....it's hard to send
money....but if they don't get sold keep my prints as thanks, or others said
let's swap prints, and yet with a couple of other members I am swapping exhibit
expenses. (I rather have the prints than the money !).  Some prints will be
return promptly when we close,  but the fabulous prints that people sent me to
keep will grace the walls of my humble home after the exhibit closes.....that's
payment enough for me!

Of course there are also a few ex-members who are no longer with Baren that
never knew the exhibit was being
organized. So that 38 contributing vs 75 participating member thing is a little
deceiving. Overall, I think most people did their part to help out and for that
I am most thankful.

My only reason for sharing the expenses with you was to bring "expenses" from
the futuristic and theoretical what-if to the here and now factual and allow
Baren to plan ahead.

Thanks.....Julio
ps.We did have to sell our second car and cash in one of the kids college
funds...but that's
okay....a  small price to pay...besides the kids are not smart enough to go to
college and I enjoy "thumbing" my way to
work every morning.  It's another way to meet interesting people (besides being
on Baren!). Now if I can just get my baren back from the pawn-shop...... I can
start on #6.

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 15:09:47 -0100
Subject: [Baren 9506] Re: Extra Prints 

Jeanne N. w
>and the person responsible for the event would not have to give up
>their prints as I think, Graham did and someone else??

Ya...... I was wondering what happened to it...
Who was the unfortunate person that got stuck.....with it.
Hope they are enjoying.

Graham

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From: Studio Dalwood <severn@acay.com.au>
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:19:36 +1000
Subject: [Baren 9507] Responding to threats 

Mmmmmm

I dont respond to well to threats. Gets me really angry even. Count to
ten Josephine......

Ok I make a simple succinct response to what I can see is an
innappropriate suggestion that has not been sufficiently thought
through. There are a miriad reasons why installing a paid membership
system would not only be a nightmare to administer but would destroy the
fabric of the forum. Many reasons, too many for me to waste my time
spelling out the obvious. Thus in my opinion it was, and still is, a
stupid suggestion. 

On the other hand, Dutch is a nice guy and has the sense to know that I
would not really shoot him. He has not indicated to me that I offended
him. In fact I suspect he might have realised the spirit in which my
post was sent. No hard feelings Dutch.

As Graham said
"Dutch,
Please please don't take this in the way it was written.
One of our other participants made a statement that raised the 
hackles on Josephine's neck and he lived to tell the tale.

Remember two thingies..... Josephine  carries the name honestly. 
Wasn't there a fierce Josephine in history.... if there wasn't there 
is now.....
AND
Never ever ever, even ever, cross a Australian..... like us Canadians 
they are quiet and unassuming until.........

Graham

ps.  Nicely put Josephine.  (<;"

Graham knows where I am coming from, right Graham ;-) And it seems some
others share my sentiment on this issue.

"Better shut up on Japanese banking practices though or
I'll probably type something even more strongly than the membership fee
comment a la Josephine. (A polite growl of "No" from me on that
suggestion
too.)

Ishita (Dave S)"

"I agree with Josephine that a membership fee is a bad idea, it might
discourage people, especially people from outside the USA and Canada.
Let's not shoot anyone this week, so messy. I am not quite as outspoken
as Jo...."

Cultural problem. Some people have no sense of humour or, as in this
case, fail to recognise cultural differences. Perhaps I had better put
on my 'Oh dear I'm talking to non-Australians' hat when I am posting to
this list. Or wave an "I'm not serious flag". Chill out. I did not, and
never would, flame someone on this list. Though I was sorely tempted
today when I received the threatening post, below.  Australian humour?
Capiche? Learn to read between the lines.

We dont have the same conservative (read repressive) censorship that the
USA has. We have freedom of speech. My language was and remains toned
down in this instance out of respect for the list. Would you like to
hear the uncensored version??? Guess not. You will probably never get
the opportunity to speak to me face to face but you need to get know me
well enough to know when I'm kidding around and when I am serious.
*sigh* I make no apologies for having a reputation for articulating what
the majority is thinking but doesn't have the guts to voice.

*************************
This is the content of Dave's post to me.

I may not be the 'owner' and 'absolute dictator' of this forum any
longer, now that we have a Council to operate things, but I _am_ the
forum moderator still.

Your 'bloody stupid suggestion' was unacceptable speech for this venue,
especially when sent in regards to someone making a sensible
contribution to an important discussion. Send Dutch an apology
immediately (off-line if you wish, with a CC to me), or I will delete
your name from the membership list.

David
**********************

Sometimes I wonder why I bother
Josephine

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 15:40:32 -0100
Subject: [Baren 9508] Re: Oysters? 

Barbara wrote:
>Gayle,
>I almost fell off my chair laughing about the oyster shucker, 

This might just be the theme at Boot Camp
It has all sorts of possibilities wouldn't you think.
Mind Gayle has to be in total agreement on this. I am sure she will 
since she wants to eat and shower in the house.  (<;

Graham


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From: "Maria Arango" <maria@mariarango.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 15:44:18 -0700
Subject: [Baren 9509] creative funding

Julio wrote:
>ps.We did have to sell our second car and cash in one of the kids college
>funds...but that's
>okay....a  small price to pay...

Oh, Julio, I do hope you're joking! Try bicycle riding and quit whining :-)
I believe everyone is taking this membership fee thing a wee bit too
personally. It was simply a suggestion, the way I see it.
We are simply collecting funding ideas from everyone and anyone so that we
may continue to bring Baren the success that it has enjoyed thus far. I,
like Julio, am all in favor of creative financing and have exchanged prints
and exhibit expenses in lieu of shipping fees. Ayre had to sell a kidney to
get me a check from Israel (that also is a joke), Jan forked out the bucks
to send bucks, poor Andy had to pay to 'receive' his prints last time,
Graham and Horacio spent darned good money last couple of exchanges to get
their prints to the coordinator on time, and finally I had to teach the Post
Office here that they DO indeed take international postal coupons; hey! we
do appreciate the herculean efforts of everyone not living in the US.
And most of all we appreciate the prints, and the fact that through this
HAPPY forum, we can share actual live prints with our friends from all over
the world. Don't you think?
Health and stress-free living to all,
Maria

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From: "Maria Arango" <maria@mariarango.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 15:50:44 -0700
Subject: [Baren 9510] re extra print (forgot)

Oh in all the excitement I forgot that, for at least exchange #5, the extra
print is taken care of. Due to a drop out we will have the extra set to send
to Barbara for the Baren archives in Portland.
In the future, I believe we should send an extra print for the Baren archive
with every exchange.  Nice to have all the collections for posterity. Thanks
again Barbara for arranging that.
Maria

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 15:58:55 -0100
Subject: [Baren 9511] Re:Costs and Exhibitions 

>Our Printmakers Association here in Perth sent an Exchange Exhibition to
>Malaspina Printmakers Society, Vancouver, Canada

Hey refresh my memory..... was that last summer or two ago.... I am 
sure I saw it while over in Vancouver.  I am a member of the society 
for about 9 years.... Unfortunately as we are and Island in the 
Pacific and it is 2+ hours to get there I am not terribly involved 
with them....  I support them by sending a donation piece for their 
fund raisers.

(Graham, your terrritory)
Hummmmm  we are an insular bunch here on the Island... We all live in 
hope that they will never ever ever EVER build a bridge to link us 
the the mainland.

Graham

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From: Wanda <robertson@canby.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:58:56 -0700
Subject: [Baren 9512] Re: re extra print (forgot) 

Maria Arango wrote:
<snip>
> In the future, I believe we should send an extra print for the Baren archive
> with every exchange.  Nice to have all the collections for posterity. Thanks
> again Barbara for arranging that.

Yes, and don't forget - if you had prints in exchange #2,3, or 4 - you
might want to send an extra to Barbara to replace the prints in her
personal portfolios that she donated to the Portland Art Museum/Gilkey
Print Collection. This puts all of you in the first 5 exchanges into the
print collection. 

Yes, I second that - thank you Barbara!

And a big thank you to Graham Scholes for donating his #1 exchange to
the cause.

Wanda

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From: Dutch Stowe <dutch@crystalridge.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 20:04:58 -0700
Subject: [Baren 9514] Membership Fee 

>Someone take Dutch and line him up against a wall and shoot him.
>If paid memberships are suggested again I'm outa here
>bloody stupid suggestion
>^%$#)(8&%$#@
>
>Josephine

	I guess from that comment Josephine's vote is No. :-) Actually I think
that Josephine shouldn't hold back and should say exactly what she means. ;-)

	Btw there are rules against killing the messenger regardless of how you
feel about the message.:-}

	First let me say that this was a possible solution and not the only one.
Secondly, I expected strong reaction. (didn't we get that when a council
was created) Almost no one likes change. Thirdly, one point that I
apparently did not make clear with my suggestion was that membership would
be volunteer with appropriate benefits and anyone that wanted to could
still participate in the baren free.

	From what I can see ( I have only been a member for about a year) there
has come a need for financial support for the efforts of the baren. This is
a problem that needs to be solved and I am quite sure that any solution
will piss off someone. The stated purpose of the organization is to promote
wood block printing, and so far we are doing well mostly out of the
generosity of a few of the members. What works is for everyone that
supports an ideal to support that ideal and not leave it up to a few. At
some point we will out stretch that few as with Dave needing help (hence
the council) the organization had out grown the ability of one person to
handle it. I personally think that decision (plus being able to put aside
one's ego) has insured the continued existence of the baren and the ongoing
success.

	I think that this has generated many good ideas that might be thrown into
the pot to consider. 

Philip Wrote:

Dutch,....A good idea to be sure,...but I think a show by show fee is a
better idea,....thinking ahead a little and trying to calculate expenses is
difficult,...but Julio did his show because of his love of the work and he's
a real nice guy,...maybe have the price to be in one of these shows a
certain set amount,.... and although Julio and Greg said they had everything
worked out, I for one was remiss in helping at all,....however if one comes
up with an idea for a show you have to be expected to take most of the
heat,.....maybe an itemized cost to enter list would be in order, posted in
Maria's new publication!  blahblahblah,..............       Philip


Drew Wrote:

Y'know, this notion of dues & all sounds a bit like the print makers 
societies that were common at the start of the century, like the Chicago 
Etchers' Society, New York Etchers' Society, and the Prarie Print Makers.
         Artists would join in order to be included in group shows which 
would be toured. Non-artists were allowed to join as well, often at the 
same rate. All received an annual "Gift Print" done by one of the members 
(a major incentive for non-artists to support these groups). I think it was 
generally the officers' duty to organize the shows finding venues on the 
basis of advice from members.
         There may be aspects of this that are of interest to Baren.

Graham Wrote

Barter.... use the barter system Dave
In lieu of money....... send by mail the equivant value owed of that 
wonderful Hosho paper.
You will have members lining up to organize exhibitions.  Win win as I see it.



There are plenty more ideas and I have probley lost half the readers with
so long a posting. I am not necessalary defending any idea as the "One and
Only" but I also strongly feel that anyone that volenteers shouldn't have
to eat $300.00 for his/her generiosity. So now on with more feed back.

Thank You
Dutch Stowe

North Hollywood Ca. USA

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End of Baren Digest V11 #988
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