[Baren] the mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking Baren Digest Monday, 7 August 2000 Volume 12 : Number1105 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cucamongie@aol.com Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 09:53:10 EDT Subject: [Baren 10840] waterless litho Hi, as one not familiar w/the process, I had been under the impression (illusion) that waterless litho was a nontoxic process, but apparently it is not (one member mentioned wearing protective equipment) - is there a nontoxic way of achieving a litho look? I am EXTREMELY sensitive to chemicals, which is one thing that has kept me in waterbased work (also the fact that my "studio" is a tiny room in my apartment, so I can't have a lot of stinky stuff around where I sleep and where my cat roams around, etc). but I have always loved the look of litho and I think some type of process that could at least achieve this kind of effect would be interesting to check out. Thanks a lot - if you think it's more appropriate to email me offlist that's OK too- Sarah Hauser Cucamongie@aol.com ------------------------------ From: jenvey@juno.com Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 10:15:19 -0500 Subject: [Baren 10843] Re: Waterless Litho I have been reading the e-mails on waterless lithography and it sounds like what I should look into for some prints that I promised for a reunion in five weeks and have not started yet. Could anyone advise where I could order a book or instructions on waterless lithography Jean J ------------------------------ From: "Philip Smith" Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 09:21:21 -0700 Subject: [Baren 10844] Re: Waterless Litho Perry Hello Perry,....now that everyone's ears are up,.....where can we get = some printed info on the process known as Waterless Lithography???...a = nice story for Maria's newsletter maybe??? Thanks, Philip ------------------------------ From: barbara patera Date: Sun, 06 Aug 100 09:29:00 Pacific Daylight Time Subject: [Baren 10845] waterless litho Hi Perry, Welcome! Have many ?'s about waterless litho but the first is the one that counts.... is this the process that lets you use an etching press? Have abandoned the litho process these past few years because there are only 2 litho presses that I know of within a days drive of me, and neither are available for my use. Barbara P. ------------------------------ From: Artsmadis@aol.com Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 13:09:05 EDT Subject: [Baren 10847] Re: Baren Digest V12 #1103 In a message dated 8/5/00 8:45:04 AM Central Daylight Time, blueman@pantek.com writes: << Does anyone know anything about a deeper in tone paper than kitakata but with the same strength, yet thin-ness >> How about a watercolor or ink wash on the ktikata or other Japanese paper to darken it. All the illustrated ones in the new Daniel Smith catalog are light colored also. The Okawara machine made [2 X 3 foot sheets, I think] is a bit darker yellow but still a pretty light color. Darrell ................... Arts Madis http://members.aol.com/artsmadis/index.htm.htm 70 pages so far .................... ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 14:23:51 -0500 Subject: [Baren 10850] Re: Baren Digest V12 #1104 At 10:00 PM 08/06/2000 +0900, you wrote: >Does anyone know anything about a deeper in tone paper than kitakata but >with the same strength, yet thin-ness Try mulberry paper from David Smith RK8265051 $4.44 per 24"x33" sheet -- it's tremendously strong or Okawara RK8265053 -- basically the same stuff, but in scroll size 36"x72" $12.60 per sheet. - --Mike Lyon Mike Lyon mikelyon@mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 14:32:58 -0500 Subject: [Baren 10851] Re: Baren Digest V12 #1104 At 10:00 PM 08/06/2000 +0900, you wrote: >Mike wrote: > > ... For what it's worth, I use the scissors method, running the > > edge of the handle back and forth over the back of the takenokawa in > > close-together stripes. > >Mike, can I question something here, without seeming to be too picky? >The scissors method is also in common use here, and works very well. But >the side of the takenokawa that needs to be treated this way is the >_outside_ - the side that will come into contact with the paper. When >you say 'the back of the takenokawa' it makes me wonder if you're >working on the wrong side ... Interesting, Dave... No, I learned to smoosh the wet fibers on the inside of the sheath with the smooth corner of the scissors handle (that must have been written down some time ago, as it seems we all seem to do it with the same 'tool' who do you think originally came up with that hint?) -- where it's rough -- leaves 'bruise' marks on the outside (paper contact side) while wet -- can't understand why the smooth side would be treated, as it seems that it's the coarse fibers inside which need to be tamed -- help me out with some theory here? Mike Lyon Mike Lyon mikelyon@mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 14:39:14 -0500 Subject: [Baren 10852] Re: Baren Digest V12 #1104 >Very interesting material there. (Could you perhaps consider programming >the Shockwave images to rotate a bit slower? Just when you see a 'good >one' it disappears instantly!). Please let us know when more updates >are ready ... Glad you enjoyed the movies! I find them pleasing to the eye, like kaleidoscopes, sort of. I'll slow the rate down to one per second just for you, but if you really want to study individual designs, you'll just have to wait for the hard cover version! :-) I'm adding one more movie to the page -- later it will have to be split into several pages -- this new one displays 512 'two way' designs using just a diagonal line to bisect each tile -- they can be placed either left leaning, or right leaning, hence my name 'two way'. This tile makes patterns similar to traditional Japanese textile designs. Mike Lyon mikelyon@mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: "Perry Riley" Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 14:45:08 -0500 Subject: [Baren 10853] Waterless Litho cont. It seems that there is an overwhelming amount of interest in this process so I will explain my experience with the medium a little more. First off, I am no expert, I would save that title for Professor Denis Olsen. He teaches printmaking and digital courses at the University of Texas at San Antonio. He has given demonstrations on the process at conferences in the past and is a good contact to network with. I am sure if you were to contact him at the university and use my name as a reference he can provide you with the directions for additional resources. The address is University of Texas at San Antonio, Professor Dennis Olsen, 6900 West, San Antonio Texas, 78249-0642. Main number telephone is (210) 458-4352. Yes, I agree with the comment made that it feels like cheating. It is so easy that it takes on an identity in printing all its own. The process that we were using to develop the plates was toxic. We performed the developing under a traditional ventilation hood. It is similar to the development of the older photosensitive litho plates, if any one is familiar with that,. but easier. We used an exposure unit to transfer the images. We used an old scrape piece of a rug (type of rug I can not remember but it is very important control point in developing) to develop the plate with the emulsion. The inks are a special, soy bean type if my memory serves me right, ink. Regular litho inks do not work well for this process. I have a few notes wrote on scrapes pieces of paper and the rest is up in my head. What type of work I was doing with the process is transferring digital images into CYMK for negatives and exposing them onto the plates. No more than 400 to 600 dpi for hand printing as a general rule. My work at that time consisted of hand tinted etchings done from dry point on Lexan with sanding and using an air erase with carborundum grit to give and aquatint look to select areas. I used various masking techniques as blocking devices to protect areas I did not want aquatinted when sand blasting. I would print the plate in a earthy brown and then heavily tint it with watercolor. At this point, I would then scan the images into the computer and import them into Abode Photoshop. I would scan in 4 or 5 images and then cut and paste etc. to create a new image. Once completed with a new image I would then carry it back out into the printmaking process via the Waterless Litho process. It is interesting that the end result did not scream "I am a digital image" but whether focus remained on the image itself and then figuring out how the artist achieved it was a delight. Perry ------------------------------ From: "Daniel L. Dew" Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 16:44:51 -0400 Subject: [Baren 10854] color problems Oh, what a day! I think I may have stumbled on a solution. I have always had problems with my color choices, especially with my reduction blocks. Then it hit me! My local Home Depot has a large paint section with tons of examples. So, I asked if it would be O.K. to take a sample of each of their color cards. I am now the possesor of over 300, 3/4" by 1 inch color swatches. But wait, there are three colors to each swatch, so...... over 900 color swatches. Surely I can work out my colors now ahead of time! Oh well, by for now. Time to play with my colors! dan dew Tampa, FL ------------------------------ From: Aqua4tis@aol.com Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 18:32:39 EDT Subject: [Baren 10855] Re: Baren Digest V12 #1097 hi arye can you take photos of your walls and scan them? i think others would like to see this as well georga ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 07:44:04 +0900 Subject: [Baren 10856] Re: Okawara, baren skins, 'lithography' ... Mike wrote: > or Okawara RK8265053 -- basically the same stuff, but in scroll size One thing to note about this 'Okawara' stuff from Dan Smith ... it doesn't last long ... I used it for making some prints in 1985, just before I came over to Japan, and those prints (some of which were stored quite carefully) have all become blotched and brown. One that was framed and hung (yes, I _used_ to do that sort of thing!) is now a deep dirty brown - people who now see that copy assume that it is an original Edo-era print ... *** > it seems that it's the coarse fibers inside which need to be tamed It is very much the coarse fibers _outside_ - on the surface which contacts the paper directly - that must be crushed. Run your fingernail across the surface of untreated bamboo sheath - you will hear a 'zip' sound as your nail runs across the ridges. The rubbing with a stone/scissors/whatever must destroy these ridges to the point where your fingernail leaves no sound. A sheath tied on with the ridges intact will very much tend to abrade the back of the paper. If perhaps, you are using a thick heavy paper, and in a fairly dry condition, or maybe with not so much pressure (such as that used when making a deep smooth 'tsubushi'), this may not be so important, but if you have moistened (softened) the paper in the traditional way, and are using lots of pressure, it will readily abrade, especially thin stuff. A well-treated sheath, lubricated with a light coating of camellia oil, will allow very firm pressure to be applied to the back of the paper without causing damage. *** Re: waterless lithography ... It seems as though there is quite a lot of interest in this process among [Baren] members. Time, obviously, for the process to have a mailing list/discussion group of its own. I would suggest that somebody with experience in the process set up such a group, so that [Baren] can maintain its focus on woodblock work. Dave ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 13:00:37 -1000 Subject: [Baren 10857] Re: Okawara, baren skins, 'lithography' ... David Bull wrote: > Mike wrote: > > or Okawara RK8265053 -- basically the same stuff, but in scroll size > > One thing to note about this 'Okawara' stuff from Dan Smith ... it > doesn't last long ... I used it for making some prints in 1985, just Interesting and useful feedback. Although their current catalog lists 'Okawara' as acid free, judging from your experience I doubt that it is. Jack ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 09:02:29 +0900 Subject: [Baren 10859] Re: Okawara Jack wrote: > Although their current catalog lists 'Okawara' as acid free, > judging from your experience I doubt that it is. Here's the print: http://woodblock.com/temporary/kaigetsudo01.jpg http://woodblock.com/temporary/kaigetsudo02.jpg Not sure what to think about the paper. Although the entire surface is deeply toned, and is now much darker than the original buff white colour, there is a whole group of deeper splotches in only one area of the print. The localization of that change would make me suspect that it wasn't internal to the paper, but was caused by somthing in the way it was stored ... Dave ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V12 #1105 *****************************