[Baren] the mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking Baren Digest Monday, 7 August 2000 Volume 12 : Number1106 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Artsmadis@aol.com Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 20:23:20 EDT Subject: [Baren 10860] Re: waterless litho In a message dated 8/6/00 11:34:57 AM Central Daylight Time, b.patera@worldnet.att.net writes: <> Yes, I believe so. Find more info at: http://duke.usask.ca/~semenoff/ Darrell ------------------------------ From: Artsmadis@aol.com Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 20:29:03 EDT Subject: [Baren 10861] Re: Okawara, baren skins, 'lithography' ... In a message dated 8/6/00 5:50:22 PM Central Daylight Time, davebull@woodblock.com writes: << One thing to note about this 'Okawara' stuff from Dan Smith ... it doesn't last long ... >> Do you have any experience with the Okawara in the smaller size which is supposed to be hand made, I believe? Comes in sheets about 14 X 20 inches. Supposed to be 100% kozo. I have some at least 10 years old that has not apparently changed. Darrell ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 19:27:51 -0700 Subject: [Baren 10863] Re: darker than kitikata > << Does anyone know anything about a deeper in tone paper than >kitakata but with the same strength, yet thin-ness >> How about Basingwerk? I think it's usually used for etching paper, but has a nice ecru color & very smooth surface. It comes in lightweight & medium from Utrecht. I tried it for hanga & it worked there too, but needs a little more dampness than some of the thinner Japanese papers. And more weighting down as it drys. Wanda ------------------------------ From: Kris Alder Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 21:41:49 -0600 Subject: [Baren 10867] RE: waterless litho >===== Original Message From baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp ===== >Hi, as one not familiar w/the process, I had been under the impression >(illusion) that waterless litho was a nontoxic process, but apparently it >is not Hope you will forgive one more response to the waterless litho questions, Dave. Sarah, you asked about the chemicals, etc. I have done quite a number of prints using waterless litho both as an independent medium and combined with other printmaking techniques. I love the process and find it very liberating after working in woodcut and etching. It can be very immediate in the results and I agree that it does feel like cheating after working so hard to create a beautiful woodcut block. Unfortunately waterless litho is _not_ a nontoxic process. Aluminum litho plates are coated with a silicone/mineral spirits combination to create a resist on the plate once the image has been established. Lacquer thinner is often used to transfer images to the plate. Chemicals used to remove the silicone layer are highly toxic, and caustic as well. Many printmakers using this method have experimented with waterbased litho inks to help tame the process somewhat. I personally have used traditional litho inks for the work I do as I have not been as satisfied with the results of the waterbased litho inks to this point. Before deciding for or against this process, I'd suggest you check out Nik Semenoff's info at: http://duke.usask.ca/~semenoff/ I noticed the other day that there's a great update there. And be sure to work with someone who is familiar with the process in the beginning...it can be a very valuable experience. I'd be happy to help with any questions you might have regarding the process, based on my own experience of course. Email me privately with any questions. Oh! Before I forget...Congratulations, Ruth! You are amazing! And Maria, love the new prints! Keep on carvin' y'all! Kris *********************** Kristine Alder, Printmaker/Art Educator Logan, UT *********************** ------------------------------ From: Kris Alder Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 21:45:44 -0600 Subject: [Baren 10868] RE: waterless litho Barbara...forgot to mention in that last post that yes, waterless litho plates can be printed with excellent results on an etching press...another bonus. Kris ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 22:58:39 -0500 Subject: [Baren 10869] Re: Baren Digest V12 #1105 >Not sure what to think about the paper. Although the entire surface is >deeply toned, and is now much darker than the original buff white >colour, there is a whole group of deeper splotches in only one area of Dave, it doesn't appear that the paper was the cause -- acid in paper causes that typical brown tone called 'burn' and the paper eventually gets brittle and cracks into little flaky pieces -- acid free paper can be 'burned' by mounting, by storage in newsprint, especially in high humidity. Oil also can discolor paper -- that's kinda what your print looks like to me -- maybe from contact with wood ? Or, I don't know, could be acid burn from those sulphides, too, I guess? Back on the takenokawa fiber issue -- OK, let me be sure I've got this straight... The stuff I get is smooth and shiny on one side, like the outside of a piece of bamboo, and fibery and veiny on the other side. I've been smooshing the fibery side, and tying the smooth and shiny side out. I usually use camelia oil, but sometimes Wesson or other vegetable oil (don't groan!), too, and use a variety of papers (but remember, I'm not all that experienced!)... My thick gampi does 'pill' when I print too long without letting the paper relax a while (gets too wet!), but haven't been aware of abrasion... I DO use a slip sheet when I feel too much friction, though, so... what do you think? I should be smooshing the other side? It seems like it would tear so easily that way? Mike Lyon ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 18:47:56 -1000 Subject: [Baren 10872] Re: Okawara > Jack wrote: > > Although their current catalog lists 'Okawara' as acid free, > > judging from your experience I doubt that it is. Dave, now that I see the pictures, I'm not so sure it is the fault of the paper. Acid burning should create a more even all over tone, without those dark blotches at the bottom. It may be a storage problem, or a bad batch of sizing or... who knows? Jack David Bull wrote: ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 22:44:55 -0700 Subject: [Baren 10873] Staining. It's very possible that the backing was such that it has cause the marks on the paper. Corrugated can cause this kind of marking. So can chipboard. This is a brown or grey cardboard that was/is used in the packaging field .... usually for rigid or set up boxes. Graham ------------------------------ From: "Philip Smith" Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 23:28:04 -0700 Subject: [Baren 10874] Re: Staining. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Scholes" To: Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 10:44 PM Subject: [Baren 10873] Staining. > It's very possible that the backing was such that it has cause the > marks on the paper. Then again if you haven't used distilled water in a place that has a history of high pollution,...you might find that the acid rain will effect paper in some yet unknown way, maybe. Philip ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 16:41:10 +0900 Subject: [Baren 10875] Re: takenokawa ... Mike wrote: > Back on the takenokawa fiber issue -- OK, let me be sure I've got this > straight... The stuff I get is smooth and shiny on one side, like the > outside of a piece of bamboo, and fibery and veiny on the other side. Difficult to talk about these things in only words! Here are a few photos that show what I was trying to explain ... http://woodblock.com/temporary/barens/barenskin.html > ... sometimes Wesson or other vegetable oil (don't groan!) _I'm_ not groaning ... but would perhaps be a bit concerned about the long-term effect on the paper from a vegetable oil. Mightn't the residual oil left in the paper start to 'go off' after time? Dave ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 23:23:56 -1000 Subject: [Baren 10876] Re: takenokawa ... Hey Dave, all these temporary photos that you post are infinitely helpful, I hope you are saving them all for future encyclopedia inclusions? Jack ------------------------------ From: Cucamongie@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 08:55:43 EDT Subject: [Baren 10877] Kitakata alternatives Hi all - Gayle, in respose to your request for darker papers, you might get a sample book from Hiromi Paper (www.hiromipaper.com, I think), I used one of their papers in their DHM series which was on the darker side, very lovely paper but I'm not sure it would be thin enough. Anyway, you might give them a call as they have a huge variety of Japanese papers, mostly at not-too-outlandish prices. best wishes Sarah Cucamongie@aol.com ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V12 #1106 *****************************