Baren Digest Thursday, 4 January 2001 Volume 14 : Number 1272 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cucamongie@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 08:43:43 EST Subject: [Baren 12776] Akua kolor, etc Happy New Year and thank you all for the nice comments on my new site! Marilynn, I have mixed Akua Kolor with no problem, perhaps it just takes some expermentation - I have found the earth colors to be a bit more diluted than I'd like sometimes, but in that case sometimes I'll print these areas using pure dispersed pigments (with a little gum arabic and glycerin mixed in) which I buy from Guerra in NYC. So far I haven't had trouble with printing some areas using Akua Kolor and some w/the pigments. This is with the hanga method, though, NOT roll-up. Best wishes Sarah ------------------------------ From: Sunnffunn@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 14:14:56 EST Subject: [Baren 12777] Re: Akua kolor, etc any time you mix pigments you loose some of the vibrancy, tube colors are always the most intense. I think the earth tones perhaps dull down the brighter pigments the most. I have mixed some akua kolor pigments with success, but was not toally pleased with other results. Perhaps i should run an experiment and keep notes as to how they mix and share them. that could be my project at the coast next week, along with all this other stuff. I have not done hanga, but it would seem to me pigment to paper should be the same no matter the method. Marilynn ------------------------------ From: Studio Dalwood Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:47:57 +1100 Subject: [Baren 12778] Snake Listing Thanks Pete, for closing the list, sixty-ish is a huge amount to print, prepare and post. Please remove Jean's name from number 50 as this is a duplicate listing to number 16, and I believe John Ryrie dropped out. It might be worthwhile at this stage to check the completeness and accuracy of the list. I find it frustrated to see the abbreviations (mostly states) and the lack of a country of destination in most of the addresses. From what I have seen of the postal services internationally, I think we should be more careful in identifying exactly where the post is going to. my 2c Jospehine ------------------------------ From: Studio Dalwood Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 21:21:53 +1100 Subject: [Baren 12779] Baren Directions Hi folks This is something of a 'see you later' mail. I'd appreciate it if you don't edit or crop it Wanda. A few weeks ago I asked the committee to remove a barener who repeatedly offends by their actions. This person, since I have been here, has consistently mailed myself and other persons with abusive and offensive mails both on and especially off list. The content of these abusive mails is directed to baren members and is about baren matters. The committee has refused my request and the request of others to unsubscribe the offender. Today I received a mail from someone else who is not happy with the way the list is currently being managed. It appears to be typical of the feelings out there that I am picking up off list. I quote "You write a message and no one responds, - you feel like you are talking to yourself, I can do that at home. I really enjoyed the conversations we (the group) were having on Baren last year, but then we had 2-3 disagreements, you were "thrown off" and now it seems that no one will talk at all for fear of offending someone, or they send you "secret" off list emails that are just nasty. I miss the art philosphy debates and the conversation about different printing styles." I have been getting the digest version of the mail and it is increasingly filled with html crap similar to the 0000000000 post sent by Jeanne. I'm deleting more and more of them and getting very fed up with the whole thing. The most dissappointing new development is the uncertainty of being edited. My feelings are either accept my posting in their entireity, good with the bad, questions with answers, criticism with praise and humour when given - or dont accept them at all. So, see you later, I wont be posting again until these matters improve, the editing is off, and the offending person is removed, or I simply unsubscribe. Josephine ------------------------------ From: barebonesart Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 14:17:16 -0800 Subject: [Baren 12780] Re: Baren Digest v14 #1271 Marilynn, There seems to be some confusion and I'm sure others will add to it! I have always been told that fine line work was better in Lino - no woodgrain to get in the way and no chunks to break off when you least expect it. The exception to this is, of course, very hard fine grained wood, or the end block, both of which are quite expensive. Personally, I like good old Shina from McClains, but sometimes I combine it with lino. Sharri LaPierre ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 17:15:02 -0600 Subject: [Baren 12781] Re: Baren Directions 01/03/2001 05:14:50 PM Josephine writes: "So, see you later, I wont be posting again until these matters improve, the editing is off, and the offending person is removed, or I simply unsubscribe..." Dear Josephine and others... there is a little confusion as to what is going on. The forum runs most of the time w/o moderation. Messages come and go 100% exactly as sent....Wanda was monitoring messages for a while but it has been back to normal for a week or two (she posted to the group on this). Even when running under moderation, the option is to sent an entire message or not, if this is found offensive. The editing the council speaks of is in regards cleanup of html junk and other stuff not pertinent to the main message itself but attached due to the medium, variety of browsers, email jobs, options, etc...and sometimes the baren server kicks these posts out to a trash folder for the moderator to review. Now that Wanda has stopped monitoring...the junk comes thru as is. No one here is doing it on purpose, it is a flaw and something adherent to the medium with which we have chosen to communicate. The short-term monitoring was needed in part due to the personal issues that me and others were carrying out on the general forum and it's not the norm. As far as removing persons from the forum, the parties involved in this particular issue carried their discussion off-list in a private matter....a private matter. The council was not put together to babysit members but rather to help with the day to day tasks. If someone is getting private emails from another member that are not welcome....DELETE...(or set you options in your email job accordingly to stop this incoming mail).....they will soon stop. Many people come and go, the members list changes everyday !...for some is not their cup of tea, for others the pace is too slow or too fast...some comeback when they have time to contribute and get involved....we are what we are...we are what we contribute to the discussion and to the group.....personally I don't like when people unsubscribe...I wish them well.....but I understand that there are many different agendas and for some Baren is not a suitable vehicle for communication. If you ask a question and get no reply, try again...and again...sometimes some of us lay back waiting for others to take the ball and run with it.......but there is no one else in the playground at the time..... Happy New Year to everyone...Julio thanks...Julio ------------------------------ From: Roxanne Sexauer Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 15:30:04 -0800 Subject: [Baren 12782] Re: the canine four-legged Dear All, While I noticed many fine prints in exchange #8, there seemed to be a preponderance of printed images devoted to the sweetest of all creatures, the loyal dog. Therefore, I call your attentions to an exhibition seeking just such for its theme and subject. If anyone is interested in circulating their woodcuts to a wider audience, entry forms are at hand from Pat Deshler, Art Show at the Dog Show, Box 21298, Wichita, KS 67208. The show is slated to run from 2/27/21 - 4/4/21. On another topic, Lovelace Lee III might want to give John Greco's Josephine Press a call. They are located in beautiful Santa Monica (in Harry Shearer's words - "the Home of the Homeless") CA. It seems to me that they print for hire - one of my former students, Matt Thomason was working there, but he may have moved on. I'm sure it would be quite pricey, but they do beautiful work. Happy 2001 - Roxanne Sexauer Long Beach, CA ------------------------------ From: Lawrence Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 10:38:05 +1100 Subject: [Baren 12783] Re: Baren Directions A little advice regards e-mails from people that you don't like to hear from, do as I do which is to create a filter (most email programs allow this now days), the filter searches the email sender, head, subject sections etc and when it finds what ever you specify it then throws them in the trash, hence i don't have to read mail from people that I consider to be a few sandwiches short of a picnic basket. This allows me to make executive decisions about who I communicate with and who I allow to communicate with myself. This also avoids placing responsibility on others for my personal preferences. For instance if I was to moan about X that everybody else loves, I would probably be trashed for doing so, setting a filter in my email program generally removes their mail to the trash and I don't have to offend anyone in doing so. The odd e-mail that slips through my filters just reminds me why I have barred them from my cyber life. Choice isn't about getting another to be your own personal police person, we have enough of that in our society. Rather choice is about understanding how you can control your own environment and where this is limited going for the next best option. If you have trouble setting up filters, mail my personal email and I will endeavor to explain to you (or anyone else) how to set up filters on your email client. ----> students1@optushome.com.au Regards Lawrence P.S, I think it is a loss all round when people decide to leave a forum that they enjoy because they can't cop a minority of trash, especially as this will not prevail against the e-mails being sent to your personal address. Filtering will work in both instances. ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 17:59:01 -0600 Subject: [Baren 12784] Re: fine lines...lino 01/03/2001 05:58:49 PM Marilynn, Sharri, others....... I may have started the discussion on fine lines & lino when I posted a few days back... "Certainly if fine lines and detail work is what you are after, wood is the way to go..." Did not mean that you can't do fine line work with lino (look at some of Dimitris' prints for a fine example...) but rather "fine" lines and real detail....see below: http://www.woodblock.com/surimono/2000/2-7/enlargement.html I don't think you can do this type of work in lino, that's the level of detail I was referring to. I am a great admirer of the work put out by the artists and the school of the Chicago Art Institute during the 30's, 40's and 50's...and lot of those prints were done in lino. thanks for letting me clear this point...Julio ------------------------------ From: Lawrence Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 11:49:37 +1100 Subject: [Baren 12785] Re: fine lines...lino The print that you linked to could have been done in lino for that level of detail. There are some notable linocutters who impart that level of detail such as Christian & Napier Waller, Ethal Spowers (her work is a little simpler but a good example), and there are a stack of other people of course (these few examples are Australian). Most linocutters don't seem to want to do multiple blocks for the coloring however and as lino is such an immediate process there seems to be a laziness on occasion as to the actual detail placed into an image. And of course wood engraving will give you (if desired) a greater level of detail than lino or plank cutting (an obvious exception where greater detail is gained are the cuts of Durer and Holbien) and obviously size is an issue as its done on the end grain rather than the plank. It's probably fair to say that its the hands that work the material and not so much the material itself that allows the detail. Loved the example you linked to. Regards Lawrence ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 17:22:38 -0700 Subject: [Baren 12786] Clarification It seems to be a case of: You can please some of the people some of the time, You can please all of the people some of the time, And, you can please some of the people all of the time, But, you can't please all of the people all of the time We do get a choice on the list - moderated & coming out in clumps, but without html & mime stuff. Or coming through unmoderated as written & sometimes pretty messy. I have *never* changed anyone's post or words or even corrected their spelling. Which is pretty tempting sometimes! But spelling is not important, the message is. I want to clarify that: I have *never* changed/edited/censored ANYONE'S messages to Baren! I don't intend to start now, either. All I have ever done (when the list is in moderated mode) is to take out the mime (double) messages and strip out html code. But, if a message should come through (while in moderated mode) that is demeaning, mean, or just plain hurtful - I won't feel a bit hesitant to dump it & not send it through. So far, I have not had to do that. This is a classy bunch of people with enough knowledge to give us an education in almost any printmaking discipline & I appreciate every single one of you! As far as the council throwing someone off the list for sending private messages to Baren Members. That is not our function at all. What is said privately is none of our business. I appreciate the helpful suggestions, and the polite criticism that are directed my way, and I intend to do this job as well as I possibly can. If you have suggestions, and even criticism of the way I am doing it - or any other thing about the list - please feel free to e-mail me directly. I promise to answer your e-mail as soon as I can. Now, I would like to get back to talking about more interesting subjects. Wanda Baren Moderator ------------------------------ From: B Mason Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 17:22:17 -0800 Subject: [Baren 12787] filtering messages Lawrence, This was great advice, I will be asking for directions soon as we seem to get a lot of emails from girls in bunny suits or less. We just delete them unopened, but it is filling up the trash! The link Julio gave was of course to a piece by our fearless leader, Dave Bull. I have this print and it is twice as stunning in reality. I am so blown away by his carving and printing ability. My style is quite different and very loose, thank goodness or I would just quietly end it all. I can't imagine cutting these tiny lines. I have found it very easy to make fine white lines in both wood and lino, it's the fine dark ones that are the problem. The lino cuts like butter with the good Japanese tools, the wood takes a little more control and sharper tools. I understand not all lino is equal. I have only used the lino from McClains so I can't comment on this, but have had no problems with it dulling tools. Happy New Year to all, Barbara ------------------------------ From: "Daniel L. Dew" Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 21:08:19 -0500 Subject: [Baren 12788] Wood vs. lino All I'll say is that I get some pretty fine lines out of lino: http://www.dandew.com/job3_26.htm http://www.dandew.com/proverbs3_18.htm http://www.dandew.com/luke18_23.htm (wish I had a real big enlargement so you could see better) Some of you have seen some of my stuff up close and can attest to the thin, fine lines. I do find that it is easier to achieve fine lines with wood than lino, but with bucku practice and patience it is possible on lino. I do agree though, to accomplish fine lines with lino your cuts need to be precise with VERY sharp tools. IMHO. P.S. Speedball battleship gray is awesome to use and good, I've never tried McClains, so.... dan dew ------------------------------ From: Cucamongie@aol.com Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 21:14:36 EST Subject: [Baren 12789] comedy of life prints Tonight I finally had a chance to check out the "Comedy of Life" prints - they're gorgeous, folks! makes me sorry I didn't join up w/this exchange. Jeanne & Dan, love the "collating party" pics also- great work all, Sarah ------------------------------ From: "Daniel L. Dew" Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 21:16:04 -0500 Subject: [Baren 12790] Re: comedy of life prints I've been feeling guilty staying quiet. Jeanne did all the work in collating! All I did was drive down, pick up a set and scan them. Jeanne did all the "real" work and deserves ALL the praise. There, now I feel better. dan dew ------------------------------ From: Brian Lockyear Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 18:23:36 -0800 Subject: [Baren 12791] All linos are not equal... The stuff at McClains is from Portland Lino Company which is produced by... Dennis Cunningham! :-) Did he mention that in your class Barbara? Anyhow, I think it comes under that category of a really talented artist going to the effort of finding premium materials and then passing them along by selling them as well. I don't know the details and maybe you guys taking the lino class from Dennis could ask him but my understanding is that he uses a linolium from Germany which does not undergo some of the final curing steps that put a harder surface on typical commercial linolium. That would explain why they are easier to cut and don't dull the tools as quickly. Also the bonding to the back plate must be a great help, especially for running through a letterpress. Not to mention the nice presanded surface you get. All of which costs $$s of course. While there is a lot of overlap between lino and wood it seems to me that -because lino holds such crisp tool marks in any direction- it really shines in black and white prints utilizing "texture patterns" made with the tools. But clearly arguing lino vs wood for relief is apples vs oranges. Or maybe not even that much... green apples vs red. You may like one or you may like the other or your taste may vary from day to day. - Brian - ------------------------------ From: Greg Carter Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 22:18:28 -0500 Subject: [Baren 12792] Re: Not totally Private It is my opinion that messages that are offline responses to online dicussions of Baren are not totally "private". They are conected to Baren and are thus the business of the council. I do not know the specific facts of the complaint and can not respond to them but I do belive that disrespectfull offline emails that are directly linked to our online relationship is a violation of what we stand for and should not be ignored. Greg Carter ------------------------------ From: "arye saar" Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 06:02:21 +0200 Subject: [Baren 12793] Re: Exhibition Dear Arye, Thank you for all the work you have gone to with the Baren Exhibition. = You said a gallery is going to show the exhibition, too, and I was curious = as to whether that includes the Priinthouse exchange prints? Sharri LaPierre=20 ------------------------------ From: Sunnffunn@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 23:58:45 EST Subject: [Baren 12794] Re: All linos are not equal... I do not have the vast knowledge many of you have as a printmaker, I started only about 2 years ago and i still am a painter. But from my experience with all printmaking mediums and also with oil, acrylic and watercolor as painting mediums, it is the person that makes the art. the vehicle that is used is the one that lets the artists creativity shine through the most. I took a college printmaking course some years after getting my fine arts degree. it was not planned at first, i walked into a situation that made me "have" to learn this medium. I thought well I am into watercolor and oil painting, so monotype prints will be my forte. But the instructpr handed me a linoleum block and said first we start with this. I laughed and said " I do not carve, but I will try". He put classical music in the radio that first day, after I had my design on my block and I started carving away at it. The teacher walked by and said, "do you know what you have there?" Well I had a wonderful first print for a newbie and I was so astounded, it took me 50 years to find printmaking, imagine that? And it took one linoleum block to show me that I had the feel for this whatever it is. The vehicle is there for me and I will move it to wood and hope that there too I will find the joy i did with that first block. Now for your problem with nasty emails from list members. I dropped a list because a person on the list, actually the list coordinator, published a private email I had sent to her, to the entire list. It contained some very personal information and I was appalled. She did not apologize and even tho we have managed to regain a friendship after I refused for over a year, the damage is still done. Private is private, and, private should not go public. it is abuse if a member uses another member in a nasty way, but the list coordinator can not be a fight coordinator as well. You have to maintain civility to one another or delete the mail. I would only say that as artists we should respect each other and use the list and its members as art friends and not get into nasty personal life stuff. Marilynn ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest v14 #1272 *****************************