Baren Digest Sunday, 11 February 2001 Volume 14 : Number 1315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ArtfulCarol@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:30:29 EST Subject: [Baren 13343] Re: Jeanne's SERENITY - oops forgot url ! Use of Art: Jeanne's "Serenity" print for the Skokie Public Library Home page should have her knowledge and approval. Carol Lyons Irvington, NY ------------------------------ From: "Jeanne Norman Chase" Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:07:17 -0500 Subject: [Baren 13344] Re: Jeanne's SERENITY - oops forgot url ! charset="iso-8859-1" Carol I know it is after the fact, but the use of my print at the Skokie Library, now has my approval. But I understand the ramifications. Someone informed me that one of my paintings from my web site was being used as wallpaper on their computer. I asked them to please remove it. But of course, I would'nt know. I think artists are very vulnerable. Jeanne N. ------------------------------ From: Sunnffunn@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:27:15 EST Subject: [Baren 13345] Re: Jeanne's SERENITY - oops forgot url ! As artists if we put our work out there I guess it becomes vulnerable. Some peple simply do not know. I once had a person ask if they could use my watercolor for their business brochures and cards, no pay. I said no, the design is for sale. It had been seen online and for all I know they used it anyway. I guess it is a compliment. But why do they think our talent is just here without any work on our parts? That we just belong to the world? At least wallpqper is not for personal financial gain. Marilynn Portland Oregon ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:12:29 -0600 Subject: [Baren 13346] Re: Jeanne's SERENITY - oops forgot url ! 02/10/2001 11:12:24 AM Actually it is not the library's fault. Last year when we starting to promote the Skokie Baren exhibit, the lady in charge asked me if we could use some of the images for promoting the show. Since I saw no harm in this (and how else are you going to promote a show ?), since I owned all the prints in question, and since I figured bareners would not mind a little publicity...I said fine. They used Ray Hudson's and Jeanne's on the web page introducing the exhibit. They also used one of my own prints for the newsletter that went out to all the patrons and the village. I mentioned this back in March and published tne url where Ray's and Jeanne's prints where on display. I did not hear back from anyone with complaints. I thought it would be self-serving if I only used my own works for promoting the group's exhibit. Where I may see a problem is with their extended use of Jeanne's image to promote the library way past the exhibition dates. That is why I mentioned to Jeanne to see if she had a problem with it. So.....there is another Skokie exhibit coming up in May, be warned, if any of the participating artists from exchanges #5 thru #9 have a problem with their prints used for publicity and promoting of the exhibit, please let me know off-list and I will make sure that your works and rights are protected. Julio ps. Food for thought ! I now own over 250+ prints, mostly from bareners...if I wanted to create a website to share my prints with other collectors (not a commercial or for profit site).....do I have to get approval from every artist that I have collected ?...do I have to get approval from every artist that I have collected if I wanted to mount an exhibit of my own collection of prints ? do I have to ask for approval if I want to sell any of the prints ? I guess what I am asking is.......What are my rights as a print "buyer", "owner" ? I am not clear on this....xanks. ------------------------------ From: "Garth Hammond" Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:23:36 -0700 Subject: [Baren 13347] Re: Jeanne's SERENITY - oops forgot url Re:Someone informed me that one of my paintings from my web site was being used as wallpaper on their computer As informationYou can stop copying and printing of photos pics etc. from your web site in the setup. Talk to your webmaster. there are no "victims" just volunteers! Garth ------------------------------ From: b.patera@att.net Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:24:17 +0000 Subject: [Baren 13348] Re: Jeanne's SERENITY - oops forgot url ! Isn't it weird that people will appropriate one of your designs, want to use it commercially (for no pay), and expect you to take it as a complement. Have had people try to do that with the surface designs on my pottery. Most were just ignorant of copyright laws but one made me livid.... assumed I wouldn't mind because they were sure that I must have copied them from someone else and if I hadn't should be glad anyway that they planned to put my designs on t-shirts. Barbara P. ------------------------------ From: "Jeanne Norman Chase" Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:46:36 -0500 Subject: [Baren 13349] Re: Jeanne's SERENITY - oops forgot url ! charset="iso-8859-1" There are so many variables as to using someones art work. My print on the Skokie Library page is used for cultural reasons, which, I might add, pleases me. Now, if someone were to take my print and duplicate it exactly on a t shirt for selling purposes........ then, I would really object. Artists need to have their work out there so the public can appreciate it, so if anyone wants to display the work then I say,. go for it. As long as the artists name is visible on the art work. Who wants to hide their work in drawers anyway?? Jeanne N. Julio, what a show; 250 prints!!!!!!! ------------------------------ From: "Charles and Gail Sheffield" Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:58:00 -0800 Subject: [Baren 13350] Daniel Smith waterbased inks I recall an earlier message or two about Daniel Smith's new line of = water-soluble relief inks, and wonder if anyone has tried them. Their = catalog says (forgive me if this has already been posted): "It's the = first truly professional quality water-soluble ink. We spent years = developing and testing various formulations before we came up with one = that in every respect meets our standards for excellence and consistency = from batch to batch. At last, you can enjoy the ease of printing with = water-soluble ink and get the superior print quality you thought you = could only get with oil relief inks." Gail Sheffield Covington, LA ------------------------------ From: b.patera@att.net Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 19:07:21 +0000 Subject: [Baren 13351] Re: Jeanne's SERENITY - oops forgot url ! Jeanne, You're right. There can be exceptions when it comes to cultural uses of art work but in most of those cases an individual representing a public institution gets permission from the artist.... as Julio got your O.K. for the Skokie Library. Think it is great that your work was chosen to be on their opening page. Unlike the t-shirt thing this is really a great compliment. Congrats! ------------------------------ From: "Garth Hammond" Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:05:43 -0700 Subject: [Baren 13352] Re: Jeanne's SERENITY - oops forgot url ! charset="iso-8859-1" RE:Isn't it weird that people will appropriate one of your designs, want to use it commercially (for no pay), and expect you to take it as a complement. Have had people try to do that with the surface designs on my pottery. Most were just ignorant of copyright laws but one made me livid.... assumed I wouldn't mind because they were sure that I must have copied them from someone else and if I hadn't should be glad anyway that they planned to put my designs on t-shirts. Barbara P. Barbara, that would have got my fire going! We live in a county that doesn't exactly esteem the arts or even know much about them.. we also have a large group of people we are basically ignorant of anything not on tv. I have protected myself by being informed and using the copyright law. Most artists borrow (steal) etc. The process of using a form and transforming it into your personal voice changes it into something that speaks of you. So we walk an interesting line. If you take the whole image you are stealing If you take the idea or form you are inspired. I suggest some good old fashioned education. Here is Colorado we have a group called lawyers for the Arts who offer seminars on copyright law etc. I imagine that many states/countries have similar organizations. Get Smart Get Tough and Stay Creative. or Don't let the fools Win! Garth ------------------------------ From: "kate courchaine" Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:11:13 Subject: [Baren 13353] Intellectual Property We have been talking about are issues of intellectual property. Copy write/legal issues, unauthorized image use, and issues of originality vs. stealing are important issues for artists to consider. We do not live in a vacuum, visual language is learned. It has developed over time, shaped by history and culture. It follows that there will be relationships between art and imagery. There was that artist that contracted for sculptures of puppies on a bench that were based on a postcard image. (He is the one that did that giant topiary puppy) The creator of the post card successfully sued the artist and received a large settlement. There was another case where a manufacturer used an artistās image of a duck, changed the color, reversed the orientation and was successfully sued by the artist. Then there are artists like Roger Shimiro, who freely lifts copyrighted images from pop culture and uses them in his Īpaintingsā. As far as I know Disney and his other sources have not sued him yet for copyright violation. However, I think they could. Some art etiquette rules that I like:  If a artist makes a copy of a piece of art it is supposed to be labeled as a copy by the wording ö ćafterä-followed by the original artists name. (many painting students make copies of the masters to learn how to paint)  If your are writing about something and use a source you need to cite it.  You do not reproduce or otherwise use another personās image unless it is in public domain, or you have their permission.  As an art owner, you have the privilege of displaying the work of art, but no copyright privileges unless they have been explicitly granted. Artistās use of reference materials is common practice. We are influenced by what we see and know. It is up to the artist to decide how much to use and not cross the line of appropriating intellectual property. It is not always a clear line. I think it is an essential line for every artist to consider. Best wishes and happy printing, Kate ------------------------------ From: Mary Krieger Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:14:36 -0600 Subject: [Baren 13354] Re: intellectual and physical properties You are right Julio, if you wanted to create a website of your print collection you would have to ask permission to reproduce each image from each artist. In Canada, artists have what is known as "exhibition right" so you would have to ask permission to hold a public exhibition of your collection. I don't know the law elsewhere regarding this right. You would not have to ask their permission to sell the print. Though some areas give the artist the right to collect a percentage of any gain that you may make on reselling their work. Think of each object as embodying two kinds of property - intellectual (the image) and physical (the object). When you purchase an artwork, you generally purchase the physical object not the intellectual property - the right to reproduce it, the right to be acknowledged as the creator of it, and the other copyright provisions for creators in your local legislation. Mary Krieger Winnipeg MB ------------------------------ From: ArtfulCarol@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:18:25 EST Subject: [Baren 13355] Re: intellectual and physical properties Jean, Congratulations to you on your print being put on the skokie web site. Most of the questions now being raised about this subject are covered in the latest Legal Guide for the Visual Artist or The Artists Friendly Legal Guide.. Copyright is Federal, but each state has different protections and laws covering art. The most protective states for artists are NY and Cal. I learned through experience (but do we ever learn!) I can't go along with the "compliment " argument. Would a doctor consider it a compliment if he gave someone a treatment and the person wouldn't pay. Of course I am not referring to public service groups like Libraries. Carol Lyons ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 21:09:50 -0600 Subject: [Baren 13356] Re: intellectual and physical properties 02/10/2001 09:09:42 PM Thanks Mary, Kate, Jeanne and the others. That certainly makes sense. I like the idea of the dual role...physical and intellectual. You all made it a bit easier for me to understand. Now....Last week I saw a newspaper article in the Chicago Tribune that was probably covered around the nation. It had to do with one of Mr. Wyeth's (famous american painter) paintings that had just been recovered after being stolen in 1966. The article came with a large photograph of the painting in question. Mr. Wyeth is still alive (80's) and the photograph was in the front page of the newspaper. Did the paper had to get permission from Mr. Wyeth to publish a photo of his work ? Could you say that by having that story and photo in the front page the paper was trying to get better sales and profit ? One final thought. In the end we are all copyists, there is only one original artist. All the things living or not, come about from one great creative force. Even the cells and the blood that runs thru our bodies are but a small part of the great "edition". Think of DNA as the ultimate printmaker....with every new print being just slightly off register or with a minor change in color scheme. Whatever your beliefs, or not.....your art is just an expression of all that has influenced and shaped your mind......artists don't work in a vacuum....but some seem to take this "creator" role a bit too serious.....from every art book you have read, from every teacher you have had and every art work that has graced your eyes, you have consciously or unconsciously stolen......in that sense...we are all a little bit guilty of breaking the universal laws of copyright....and that is a good thing! xanks....Julio ps. I certainly hope that when I meet my maker, I don't have to explain why I went around stealing all his/her original ideas.....flowers, animals, mountains, breath-taking sundowns, puppies, butterflies, etc.... ------------------------------ From: "Robert" Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:58:06 -0800 Subject: [Baren 13357] Re: waiting for endangered species Bea, Yuri said you would be calling to pay for wood you had purchased from him. I wanted to make sure you had the right number. 541 342 6282. We are open on Sunday now 12-5.There is a press ( Sturges model cp-5) for sale to some good home. One of my artists has abandoned printing and now paints full time. She lived in SoCal and when she moved to Eugene, left her press there. If you know anyone who is interested... New price 6625.00 +shipping Now. If you live in Oregon, Washington etc, and have to pay to ship. $1000 If you live in Cal and can just go pick it up. $3000. Bed size 28"X48" Thanks Robert ------------------------------ From: "Bea Gold" Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 21:42:56 -0800 Subject: [Baren 13358] Re: waiting for endangered species charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Robert, Yuri said he sent the blocks on Feb 2 - nothing has come yet - seems a long time - I just wrote to him. I'll let you know as soon as I hear from him. Thanks for the help, Bea Gold ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest v14 #1315 *****************************