Baren Digest Tuesday, 20 March 2001 Volume 14 : Number 1362 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Murilo Pereira" Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 05:31:16 -0300 Subject: [Baren 13944] Re: Maria Arango Hi, Maria Arango, gracias por haber traduzido mis palabras. When I posted it in Portuguese I was just thinking in you, that you would understand, or Juan Gerrero or some other Spanich language. Voce entendeu erradd o seguinte: Eu Me myself did am auto-retrato como Picasso fazia, e foi um grande linoleum. Gracias, and congratulations for New York. MAGP Florianópolis - ---- ------------------------------ From: dimitris Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 02:40:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Baren 13945] overruling... Dear Baren, it is so nice to see that all theories on the evolution of the human community come true, no matter what or where. So,I want an answer to a very simple question: Political content of prints is OK or not OK? I do have more questions, but I think one at a time is alright. Dimitris ------------------------------ From: Ray Hudson Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 06:38:20 -0500 Subject: [Baren 13946] registration reduction prints Marilynn--about registration for reduction print. A long time ago, back in the days I used oil inks, I did some reduction prints. I don't know if I can explain the registration, but I'll try. I glued a thin board, about 1/2 inch by 3 inches long to the top right hand side of each piece of paper. That would put it on the upper left when printing. then I built a frame with two wooden sides, top and left, to slide the woodblock into. Above and slightly to the left of those "registration boards" I constructed another small set of boards into which the board glued on the top of the paper could fit. The result was that I could removed the paper and replace it as many times as I wanted to and each time have it in pretty much exactly the same place. It took some time to build the frame and to get the pieces of wood onto the paper, but it really saved the problem, THE problem, in reduction prints of registration. I don't know how this would work with water based printing. My paper was dry and not damp. Ray ------------------------------ From: "Garth Hammond" Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 06:25:15 -0700 Subject: [Baren 13947] Re: New rules & regulations for posting to BarenForum IN RESPONSE TO >Hi there: >I have a few questions and comments about the new rules and "content". >I whole-heartily endorse Rule 1. BUT: I agree with ELI and I am very nervous about rules even when or maybe most especially when I think they are a "good" idea. For example if I used the word Hell when talking to my sister who is a zealot of a particular persuasion. She will spend 20 minutes ranting about I can't believe you said "that" and completely miss the communication. Most true believers respond similarly and I fear when I read something like what I just read that while you "BAREN" may be a gentle hand what happens if the next person in the barrel is a Taliban? Garth and I presume that you will permit this response cause if you don't please notify me and I am gone. ------------------------------ From: "Garth Hammond" Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 06:34:18 -0700 Subject: [Baren 13948] Re: New rules & regulations for posting to BarenForum In response to maria: >Then we really agree! Now define "personal attack, >overt or backhanded" in >such a manner that will satisfy an international membership of 400 and we >end up with rules number 2 and 3 Thanks for the clarificatin about where you come from. I understand the struggle you are having but I would suggest that most things of this type fall under the heading of the recent exchange between two esteemed elders of our group. My mom always told me when someone breaks wind in public pretend it didn't happen. (whatever you do don't laugh) This is my last post on this subject and this part is not light hearted: I find the concept of someone deciding they need to and the "necessity" for censorship obscene. Garth Hammond Garthart@earthlink.net ------------------------------ From: "Garth Hammond" Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 06:34:18 -0700 Subject: [Baren 13949] Re: New rules & regulations for posting to BarenForum In response to maria;Then we really agree! Now define "personal attack, overt or backhanded" in such a manner that will satisfy an international membership of 400 and we end up with rules number 2 and 3 Thanks for the clarificatin about where you come from. I understand the struggle you are having but I would suggest that most things of this type fall under the heading of the recent exchange between two esteemed elders of our group. My mom always told me when someone breaks wind in public pretend it didn't happen. (whatever you do don't laugh) This is my last post on this subject and this part is not light hearted: I find the concept of someone deciding they need to and the "necessity" for censorship obscene. Garth Hammond Garthart@earthlink.net ------------------------------ From: baren_member@barenforum.org (Margaret M. Szvetecz) Date: 19 Mar 2001 15:22:23 -0000 Subject: [Baren 13950] posting guidelines; registration Message posted by: Margaret M. Szvetecz 1. Bravo for the posting guidelines made official and included on the Baren website! I've seen other listserves and bulletin boards deterioriate to an exchange of insults or something like a time-delayed virtual chat session; because of these experiences I really do prefer to participate only in moderated listserves. The Baren posting guidelines are very rational, and I congratulate the council members on them. 2. Marilyn, re: registration, I believe the online Baren encyclopedia has some relevant sections. I have started to use a version of the litho "t and line" method--although only just recently did I figure out a way to make it work for the relief prints I've been doing. Email me, Marilyn, if you want me to tell you what I do, although there are many that do registration much, much, much better than I do! Margaret M. Szvetecz szvetecz@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu ------------------------------ From: B E Mason Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 07:29:26 -0800 Subject: [Baren 13951] rules These rules seem a little tough, but are the same ones used on Yahoo, so are not made up by the moderator. Seems to me we can have our usual discussions with no problems, as the we are not in the habit of bashing countries or people. None of us would be on this list if we didn't love printmaking and woodblock in particular. I admit I joined it as it was such a great list and then learned woodblock so I could do the exchanges. Sort of a back door aproach, I was already a printmaker so did not have to start at square one like some who join the list. I have learned a lot and now have a great appreciation for hanga that I never would have had otherwise. I have so many new friends and have met quite a few of you in the last three years. As far as I am concerned this list is head and shoulders above any others on the web and if a few rules are needed to keep us going, OK. They are not written in stone and if we find they don't work we can always change them, this list is what we make it, all 400 of us (are there really that many?) from all over the world. As an international organization we are bound to occasionally say somehting that could be misunderstood. However I don't think it is something we can't work out. The opportnity to have this common interest and language of the print should smooth out all our differences. Peace through Art....this sounds like a good motto for the baren flag. OK, who can make the flag??????Just kidding. Above all, my reason for staying on this list is to promote printmaking and to help anyone who has technical problems. I don't know everything, but after 20 years at this stuff I know a lot. I learn from all of you and am happy to give you what little expertise I have. So it anyone has questions ask away and if I don't know the answer someone else on the list will. Also I have learned a great deal about lots of artists and bought books because they have been recommended by you. So far all have been great! I just got that Olivera catalog and was blown away....what amazing work, although not woodcut. We don't live in a woodcut box and all art is interesting to me and I suspect all of you. Cut, print and best to you all, Barbara Mason Baren Council Member, Tireless enthusiastic supporter of printmaking ------------------------------ From: B E Mason Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 06:21:41 -0800 Subject: [Baren 13952] Re: registration > I am doing a 3 color print, not exactly reduction lol. But registration is > important and I am horrible at it. This not hanga, but linoblock, oooops. > Any really good methods out there to get things lined up so I don't waste > half my paper and all my time?? > Marilynn Marilynn, There are several ways, but the easiest one is to make a registration board and put a kento registration on it with cardboard. Maria has a good example of this on her site at http://www.1000woodcuts.com/Studionotes/registration/resgister1.html and the encyclopedia has other examples. I am only about 25 miles from you, if you can't get it going well email me off list and I will bring mine over so you can see it.Maria is using a wood support, I used a piece of mat board and glued the cardboard to it and it works with and without a press. Barbara ------------------------------ From: "Maria Arango" Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 08:58:21 -0800 Subject: [Baren 13953] RE: Correction > Voce entendeu erradd o > seguinte: Eu > Me myself did am auto-retrato como Picasso fazia, e foi um grande > linoleum. > Gracias, and congratulations for New York. MAGP Florianópolis Ah! The reduction self-portrait referred to in Murilo's previous post was his own, not Picasso's. A large linocut done "as Picasso did." Apologies, Murilo! Maria <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Maria Arango Las Vegas, Nevada, USA http://www.1000woodcuts.com maria@mariarango.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------------ From: "Murilo Pereira" Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:02:09 -0300 Subject: [Baren 13954] Re: rules BEMASON HI, all tose virtual people all over the world. I feel a great emotion for what this means . Yesterdays it was the movies, the letter. When I wrote my first letter to Ava Gardner, and had to send en envelope for they could return the photos. Think if I had the Internet what could I just have done? Today I go and see her museum, and have even pass them a fax-xerox-art I did at the University with those old fashion photos. I based my fax in researchs I have done about xerox -art and fax and these take to le fax du M. David ... sorrry forgotten the name of such a influent contemporary art is unforgiveable. So if you can understand me I sent that almost antiguity back for them. But, in fact, what I wanna say is that between gentlemen I think that is no need to make comportamental rules becuase one konw it all right. I have only the intention to be respectfull and fraternal with all and share information and friendship, who knows about the future ... besides death!!!!!! You know that song.... Let it be. Thanks. Murilo Antonio Grisard Pereira. Florianópolis. PS everything here is very friendly. ------------------------------ From: "eli griggs" Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:47:14 -0500 Subject: [Baren 13955] Re: New rules & regulations for posting to BarenForum Hi there: Thanks for the quick response to my questions, however the nature of your reply "Speaking for myself, not as a member of the council." is less clear than it might have been. I do not see how it is possible for you to speak to this issue as anything other than a council member, either in agreement with The Council Decision, abstaining or no. If these new rules are only intended to stop personal attacks via emails to the list than Rule 2 and Rule 3 are not necessary and should be discarded as such. State and Federal Law,dealing with 'cyber crime' will take care of itself. If a member ever goes so far as to violate these laws, then a quick 'heads up' to the proper Police Authorities, by the Baren Moderator will put an end to that sort of thing. No fuss, no muss, and no reason for Rule 2. > "We are an international group;..." > >If I enter an exchange or submit a print to the swap > > shop, and the > > subject of my print is taken to comment on -any- topic that evokes a > > negative remark or two from other Baren members, will my work (or artist > > statement) be banned or censured in any fashion, on merits other than > > artistic or workmanship? > > Again, the answer is no. The posting regulations have absolutely nothing to > do with artistic pursuit or artistic comment on artistic content. The > regulations only concern posting in the forum, personal attacks, inuendos of > a personal nature intended to offend and so forth And again, it seems to me that this area is amply addressed in Rule 1. If The Baren Council is seeking only to stop personal confrontations from appearing on list, than Rule 3 can only be viewed, in the light of day, by a diverse membership, as over-regulation and overly ambiguous where no further regulation or confusion is needed. If the real problem here is that The Baren Council is being inundated by legitimate personal emails complaining about the personal posting of grievances, then Rule 1 and its' enforcement should put an end to that problem, as intended. If however Council Members are being harassed, off list, by Baren Members, about fair comment postings, then it seems that a stern warning, followed up by possible public discommendation should put be enough 'official action' to end the back door emails. I seriously doubt many would fault Council "Volunteers" from using the 'block sender' option if the harassment continued. I will also point out that if the 'harassment' reached a level of more serious note, State and Federal laws come into play, as they should. Adopting broadly worded regulations into an artistic environment of over four hundred members, to deal with such a specific problem, seems a bit much! I end my observations by offering my thanks to the "Baren Council Volunteers" for working so hard, behind the scenes, to keep this fine list working on a day to day basis. They are: Forum Moderator Wanda Robertson Newsletter Editor Maria Arango Archivist John Amoss SwapShop Manager James Mundie Mall Manager Maria Arango Encyclopedia Editor David Bull Cheers, Eli Griggs Charlotte N.C. USA ------------------------------ From: Claude Villeneuve Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:01:09 -0500 Subject: [Baren 13956] Re: New Stuff Carol: Correct spelling: Salon des refusés That was your French lesson for today! Claude Aimée ------------------------------ From: "Gillyin Gatto" Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:25:37 -0800 Subject: [Baren 13957] simple registration methods /new rules hopefully many will respond to marilynn with more complicated registration methods so i'll offer two extremely simple ones that i use:- assuming all your blocks really are the same size simply draw a line around one block with a pen on a surface such as mat board or newsprint place your paper so that it will fall over the block and tape/staple/pin left side of paper to table and fold it back you are now ready to place any of your color blocks in that same outlined spot and let the hinged paper fall over it so you have a little registration set-up with out constructing any jigs - an extremely simple and sort of" suicide" method for quick proofing purposes - takes a steady hand and a bold mood ! holding top left corner of paper with thumb on the corner of the image (the corner where the ink stops ) place that corner right down on the corresponding corner of your next color block then take the bottom right corner in the same manner and simply place it on the corresponding bottom right corner of the block now just let the rest of paper settle into where it will naturally - in other words - you have your printed sheet held by its two opposite corners, and you'll be placing them down on the next block top left corner first then bottom right corner and letting the paper settle onto the block holding those corner in place its easy if you just do it ! and you be surprised how accurate this will be ... concerning new rules about posting to the forum : i feel the new rules are welcome ,fair and needed thank you council for working them out it doesnt seem too hard for us all to try to use our best communication skills and keep our personal vendettas and/or planning personal excursions and the like off list sometimes tho i am moved to send an answer to a query from one member about a topic (as i have above) to the whole list so that everyone can read it and add their knowledge even tho i havent asked each question , i am usually interested in the replies and learn from them Gillyin-- machias maine usa ------------------------------ From: "Bea Gold" Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:45:07 -0800 Subject: [Baren 13958] #10 coming up! Hi all, Another reminder About Exchange #10 - the details have been decided on this exchange except for the coordinator. Think about it. Future exchanges are open for input - What would you like the theme for #11 to be?: Exchange #10 will open for enrollment April 1st. Theme: none Paper dimension: chu-ban size - vertical or horizontal orientation. chu-ban size - 22 x 27 cm (8 1/2 x 10 1/2 inches) Sign-up is open to any [Baren] member, but with one qualification: first crack at each exchange is given to members who did not participate in the one immediately preceding it. Once this 'early sign-up' period has passed, other members are free to join. The first week is reserved for 'early sign-up' and then it will be open for one month unless registration fills up earlier (30). So if you didn't take part in # 9 - go for it! Do look at http://barenforum.org/exchange/index.html as a reminder about all the rules. (what rules again? of course - actually nothing new here or for the general posting rules either) Bea Gold ------------------------------ From: Studio Dalwood Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:51:52 +1100 Subject: [Baren 13959] New rules & regulations for posting to Congratulations on your new list 'rules'. Funnily enough I'm currently in the process of writing similar for that other list ;-) And I do understand fully about the iceberg principle of list administration, do I ever! Currently there's in excess of 300 e-mails in my inbox. The only comment that I have here is what constitutes 'federal or state law' and in which country? It might be better if you make a brief summary of the specific laws which you are thinking of here. I have a fair idea about Australian federal and state laws from my legal studies but you surely don't expect me to research and learn the laws from the fifty or so states that constitute the USA? Every country has its own cultural niceties and censorship laws and ways of using language, not to mention humour. Its going to be very hard to enforce this without taking that into consideration and I know you will be lenient rather than authoritarian. I'm on another list that actually counts the posts sent in by members and if you dont make your monthly quota you are booted. Talk about list nazis! On the other hand this list sends out regular automatic postings on list rules and etiquette. I'm planning on putting together a rule summary post for auto sending for PA, you might like to consider doing the same if this list allows auto postings. I know that these 'rules' apply to postings to the list. Following on from my earlier queries to the committee, will rule one also be applied to members who take baren business off-list and flame or otherwise abuse other members about baren in private posts? Well done guys Now I'm off to start a list about spanish people who talk too much..... *chuckle* Josephine ------------------------------ From: Cucamongie@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 21:01:28 EST Subject: [Baren 13960] large boards of wood Catherine, sorry I'm a bit behind on the posts! Anyway, my large boards are not so thick (and they're surely not thick enough to use as benches :) -- they're 5-ply all-shina from McClain's, a bit pricey but the wood cuts so well!! happy big cutting! Sarah ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest v14 #1362 *****************************