Baren Digest Saturday, 5 May 2001 Volume 15 : Number 1411 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gillyin Gatto" Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 09:44:36 -0700 Subject: [Baren 14359] hello to all Bareners a special thankyou to John, Maria , and Dean for the extensive information on mixing/ modifying/ blending inks and also to Barbara Mason for her advice and referral to Nik Seminoff in Saskatchewan he has quickly responded with ideas and info that van son has two excellant whites i can order which were not shown on the color chart i have ... so armed with all this new material to study and work with- i'm off to do some extended experimentation in color ... ah-the simplicity of black and white... and.. the CHALLENGE of color! gillyin machias maine usa ------------------------------ From: "Jean Eger" Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 20:51:11 -0700 Subject: [Baren 14360] Hanga types charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Baren friends, In June, I will demonstrate hanga printmaking to a college class in San Francisco! I would like to tell them the difference between moku hanga, shin hanga and all the other hangas. But I don't have a clue. Would anyone like to contribute this information to the group? Thanks. Jean Eger Womac ------------------------------ From: Cucamongie@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 10:13:20 EDT Subject: [Baren 14361] April's workshop Hi all, just wanted to give a hearty endorsement to April Vollmer, she's a terrific teacher, not to mention a great person, so if you're in the NYC area and want to learn hanga, take her workshop (no I was not paid for this endorsement :) ). When I took her class, I had already taken classes from two other instructors, but she really gave me the most comprehensive information and was able to answer all of the MANY questions I had, as hanga is SO technique-heavy, between the carving and the printing! April and I had a great time doing a hanga demo at the Brooklyn Botanic Garden last weekend. There had been a lot of publicity for the event and it was the most crowded it had ever been. All types of folks came by to watch us. My favorite was a tiny, adorable girl who was barely able to see over the table top who kept raising her hand and then saying "Excuse me, I have a question" - she would then proceed with one very intelligent question after another! perhaps a future printmaker ? :) at any rate, April & I both took photos, when they get developed we'll put some up in the Member's activities section of Baren, or whatever that's called. best wishes all from HOT NYC, Sarah ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 10:02:31 -0500 Subject: [Baren 14362] Re: Baren Digest v15 #1410 At 10:00 PM 05/04/2001 +0900, David Bull wrote: >May I hazard a guess as to why that viewer was upset with Helen Hyde's >prints? These prints were _collaborative_ works - Hyde was the >designer, but the prints themselves were made by professional Japanese >cutters and printers. To my way of thinking, this is simply an >interesting way to make a print, but some people disagree - they see it >as cheating. I'll guess, too... The viewer felt that Helen Hyde's shin hanga style was=20 'ripped off' from Japanese prints of around the same time. As you sort of= =20 noted, Watanabe, Nishimura, and others carried forward more than 200 years= =20 of Japanese printmaking tradition of print 'publishers' during the first=20 half of the 20th Century. Publishers managed the design, production, and=20 sale of prints. They commissioned designs from artists, employed carvers=20 and printers, had the final word on colors and techniques, and marketed the= =20 prints, usually from store front shops. Interesting way? I think=20 so. Cheating? I can't imagine anyone honestly viewing it like that --=20 it's a commercial thing, and speaks to quality. Today's record and film=20 industries assume the same publishing role. Come to think of it, most of=20 today's best-known artists don't often self-print. They commission(ed)=20 'Master Printers' to do the printing. Robert Rauschenberg, Roy=20 Lichtenstein, Robert Motherwell, Andy Warhol, etc. etc. all produced the=20 bulk of their prodigious print output using a variety of master=20 printers. The practice is also common in photography -- Master Black and=20 White photo printer Georges F=E8vre was the personal printer for=20 Cartier-Bresson, Koudelka, Doisneau, and Lartigue for example. My point, I= =20 guess, is that there is a centuries old tradition in BOTH Eastern and=20 Western cultures to separate the 'Technical' from the 'Creative', and that= =20 has nothing whatever to do with plagiarism or 'cheating'. Anyway, I bet her reaction had more to do with 'an occidental living in=20 Japan' and making Japanese style hanga often depicting ('plagarizing')=20 traditional Japanese or Chinese subjects than with Hyde's designs having=20 been carved and printed by an independent publisher. Sorry, Dave, I must be feeling unusually argumentative and pedantic this=20 morning! Mike Mike Lyon mikelyon@mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: Sunnffunn@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 11:32:07 EDT Subject: [Baren 14363] Re: Baren Digest v15 #1409 I want a very transparent lverlay of a second color for my next large block. How much transparent medium is enough to make it glow with the other color under? Marilynn ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 09:55:38 -0700 Subject: [Baren 14364] Re: Plagiarism? David Bull wrote: > > http://www.floatingworld.com/keith.html > > (I should mention that _one_ of the prints was actually cut and printed > by Keith herself. Can you find it?) What a lovely collection of prints. Sue, it must have been a real treat to see these in person! My guess as to the self-printed one: "Singapore" ? It looks wonderful colorwise and cutting-wise. But just a little different from the rest. If the artist/designer of a print were to take the same design to different cutters and printers, would there be a significant difference in the final outcome? Of the same status, that is. Wanda ------------------------------ From: slinder@mediaone.net Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 12:15:04 -0500 Subject: [Baren 14365] Chicago Art Institute/Hiratsuka Unichi There will be a two segment installment featuring work of "Hiratsuka Unichi: Modern Master" at the Chicago Art Institute this summer. The first segment will be on exhibit from June 6-29, the second from August 4-September 16. There will be lectures, "Voices: Hiratsuka, Japanese Print Master", June 16 (11:00) and June 21 (12:00) featuring the artist's own words and poetry, "Voices: Hiratsuka, Japanese Print Master". Y'all come! Sharen ------------------------------ From: "bemason" Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:58:38 -0700 Subject: [Baren 14366] transparent base Marilyn, Ycu have to experiment as each color is different, start with half ink and half transparent base. Barbara I want a very transparent lverlay of a second color for my next large block. How much transparent medium is enough to make it glow with the other color under? Marilynn ------------------------------ From: ArtfulCarol@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 17:05:46 EDT Subject: [Baren 14367] Re: Helen Hyde I admire the prints of H. Hyde , have a book of hers and also bought a woodblock print I could not resist. I'm not at home so I cant give you the full name of the book. but the print is Miss April Cloud, I think, and I subtitled it "Reach Must Exceed Grasp" (If you are like me you may understand) I found both at the Print Fair NY. Carol Lyons ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 19:08:27 EDT Subject: [Baren 14368] Re: Baren Digest v15 #1409 do a draw down with the second color on top of the first until you get the desired effect would be hard to tell you over the internet . Start with a minimal amout of transpant base adding more until you get the disired effect. john ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 09:53:09 +0900 Subject: [Baren 14369] Re: Collaborations Mike Lyon wrote: > Anyway, I bet her reaction had more to do with 'an occidental living in > Japan' and making Japanese style hanga often depicting ('plagarizing') > traditional Japanese or Chinese subjects than with Hyde's designs having > been carved and printed by an independent publisher. > > Sorry, Dave, I must be feeling unusually argumentative and pedantic this > morning! No 'sorry' necessary Mike! You added and expanded on what I posted ... We've learned that postings on [Baren] coming from 'Kansas' are nearly always interesting, no matter what state they are from! :-) *** Wanda wrote: > My guess as to the self-printed one: "Singapore" ? It looks wonderful colorwise > and cutting-wise. But just a little different from the rest. Because it has no key block? Interesting guess ... Actually it is the little one of the Japanese schoolgirl. I haven't had a chance to read anything by Keith, so don't know much about her philosophy on these matters, but it does seem that she took an intense interest in the process of making the prints. Looking at her finished prints, it seems almost certain that she spent a lot of time sitting next to the printers when proofing was being done; the prints are superb examples of what is possible in a collaborative effort - the skills of a very experienced printer combined with the interesting ideas of the artist. It's pretty much impossible to create this sort of print any other way. Anybody who has trained so long and hard to be able to print like that, just doesn't have much creative 'spark' left, and anybody who carries that 'spark', just can't discipline themselves to sit down for all the endless years to get that good at the technique. > If the artist/designer of a print were to take the same design to different > cutters and printers, would there be a significant difference in the final > outcome? This simply depends on how 'dictatorial' the artist is. If they have a _clear_ idea of what they want, then they simply dictate this to the printer. Whether it was printer 'A' or printer 'B' would not make much difference in the outcome. If however, the artist was willing to listen, and to allow the printer (or the publisher) to contribute ideas and influences, then the print could indeed go in a different direction. There is no right and wrong here, just different 'balances' between the various factors that go into the creation of a print ... This is a fascinating fascinating subject, and it is a matter of some considerable regret to me that I just don't have the time/energy to be able to explore this in more practical ways ... Dave ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest v15 #1411 *****************************