Baren Digest Wednesday, 23 May 2001 Volume 13 : Number 1428 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Goddard Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 08:41:25 -0500 Subject: [Baren 14518] Re: UKansas acceptance of Baren portfolio >Thanks again, Stephen Goddard, for your acceptance of the Baren prints! You are welcome, and thank you all for sharing! I'm very happy that the portfolios will have a permanent home here. This seems appropriate as we are a university museum with a strong tradition in teaching the history of prints and a strong interest in the role of the Internet in the arts. Best wishes. Steve Stephen Goddard Curator of Prints and Drawings Professor of Art History goddard@ku.edu http://www.ku.edu/~sma/prints.html ------------------------------ From: GWohlken Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:00:25 -0400 Subject: [Baren 14519] Re: Baren Digest v15 #1427--Archival or not >If not working with archival paper is a sin I am in big trouble. >When I first went to art school everyone used to go on about archival >paper and mounts, I just wanted my work to last until the end of the >semester when it would be marked. I now try to work on Khadi paper. >I have scanned a whole lot of watercolours into my computer and print them >out on watercolour paper. I frame them and give them for presents. Will >the paper outlive the image? I don't know but they look great. Spending money on art is a luxury for a lot of people. To have it disintegrate in a short time is disappointing. However, if you give the fugitive ones to friends and family only, then I guess they can't (as the old adage goes) look a gift horse in the mouth. My favorite gifts from artist friends have been ones that I know are made with the integrity of the artist. I have two wonderful totally archival pieces from my friend, Beth, and they hang on my living room wall. The computer image one (not made by Beth) , though a bit interesting, doesn't thrill me like those monoprints handprinted by Beth on the best archival papers. But then, if I weren't an artist myself, maybe I wouldn't notice. I wouldn't want to be the unsuspecting public, though, if these digital prints were being sold for a lot of money and I thought they were more stable than they are. I like everything handmade. I also like natural fibers, spun wool, sweaters knit by hand instead of machine, hand pieced quilts instead of machine pieced. So that's me, and my preferences, I guess. But heck, I like my computer and printing out text that way is kind of nice with a laser printer, don't you think? Or is handset type even better? Gayle ------------------------------ From: "Patricia" Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 01:09:36 +1000 Subject: [Baren 14520] Re: Baren Digest v15 #1427--Archival or not charset="iso-8859-1" There is nothing fugitive about giving copies of watercolours to friends/family. They know I have produced a lot of work on my computer, some even ask me what sort of printer I used. Most of them like the images. They are printed on what would would be considered 'archival' paper. I go through a lot of printers - I have a 7 year contract with Lexmark to replace them when they go to god. Lexmark have since cottoned on and the last warranty was only for two years, still I have managed to get the orignal one replaced.Whenever I exhibit a computer generated print I always put that they are computer generated printed on whatever @ ??dpi, they know what they are buying and if they are not sure they can ask. Traditional prints on handmade paper are great but, short of putting them in a thermostatically controlled room, over time they will fade the paper will yellow and/or get mould spots, nothing lasts forever. I would looovvvvvveeeee to get my hands on a laser printer but cannot the afford the ink let alone the printer.And Lexmark will not let me have one to try for a few years. :-) Patricia ------------------------------ From: Salsbury Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 11:04:48 -0700 Subject: [Baren 14521] Snake exchange. Good morning, I need to know how many snake prints are to be mailed out yet, and or if some of you have had mine returned. I counted them and put them into an album to prepare them for an exhibit and only have 40 counting mine. That leaves 18 unaccounted for. The last time someone listed those not recieved, there were not that many listed. I am wondering if some had been returned to the sender. Sue Salsbury Waterloo, Ia ------------------------------ From: "bemason" Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 09:27:08 -0700 Subject: [Baren 14522] Re: Snake exchange. Sue, You have made us all nervous...if anyone needs or wants a snake from me let me know and I will print up a few more. I would feel bad if I missed anyone. I could slither a few more out if need be. Barbara - ----- ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 11:43:51 -0500 Subject: [Baren 14523] Re: Snake exchange. 05/22/2001 11:43:48 AM Yes....mine are still "hatching", but you will ALL get one for sure when they are old enough to travel..... You can go to my snake site and compare who I got, with who you got........let me know if I missed anyone from that list.....(Dimitris & Le Green's snakes are not on display yet....but were received!) I count 16 missing in my list. thanks...Julio ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 11:55:09 -0500 Subject: [Baren 14524] Re: Snake exchange.- oops -forgot the link... 05/22/2001 11:54:59 AM Sorry forgot to include the link to the snakes: http://www.skokienet.org/bandits/jcrstuff/snakes/ thanks...Julio ------------------------------ From: Sunnffunn@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:14:53 EDT Subject: [Baren 14525] Re: Baren Digest v15 #1426 Garth I agree that we must be honest with ourselves and our consumers. I approached this subject because of the talk about Baren exchange prints going in folios for museum preservation. It than becomes an issue that prints last thru time to be seen by the next generation. if it were merely a swap where just a friend got work and knew for certain that it was not archival than i would have no concerns. But it seems this group is well ahead of the game in quality and integrity and in preserving for the future. So i became concerned that I do the right thing in this area and not cheapen the status of the group. Thank you for a timely reply. So I will get started on printing that little woodblock on archival paper and save the other print for matting and selling at an art fair where i can tell people it is cheaper because it is not done on archival paper and you will not have it last as long that way. Marilynn ------------------------------ From: "Jeanne Norman Chase" Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:09:28 -0400 Subject: [Baren 14526] Rice Paste Thanks for all of those nice people who advised me re; adding water to my rice paste. I was not sure if it would dilute the adhesiveness too much or not but it worked out just fine. Also trying the wheat paste that Sharri suggested. Speaking of archival. I looked all over town today just to find some paper that is archival for my computer, as I have to write up a cv and techniques in a print., which will go on the back of the print. I pride my work enough that I want it all to be archival. First as a promise to my customers that the work will not fall apart after they have spent their hard earned money to enjoy my art work. A teacher of mine in college said "Your art work is as good as the material that goes into it". Although I find nothing wrong in art work that is a learning process and will not be for sale. Those are the pieces that sometimes go to your friends and relatives. My father saved a lot of my pre college work. When he passed on , I looked through them and they were brittle, yellow and the matts had left their tell tail marks around the edges of the yellowing paper. Be good to yourself. Make art on good material, just in case you turn out to be another Rembrandt in the next couple of centuries! Jeanne N. PS David, your new series is lovely!!!!! ------------------------------ From: "Maria Arango" Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 15:00:58 -0700 Subject: [Baren 14527] paper charset="iso-8859-1" Paper is a beautiful thing. Arguably the single material that has had the most impact on humanity, paper is much more than a matrix upon which to squirt some ink. I would suggest to anyone that has not tried a good quality archival paper to snap up a sheet, even a small square, and _really_ look and feel this wonderful stuff. Even better, making a sheet or two allows the artist to really appreciate the simultaneous simplicity and complexity of the material. For me, it is not a question of how long my art will last, although that is a consideration. Yes, I always use acid free papers, matting, backing. But working with good archival papers is much more than that. I want the best possible materials for the task at hand. There is no comparison, not even a close call, on the way good paper behaves when printmaking. There is ink absorption, crispness of line, toughness of fiber, resistance to creasing, resiliency under necessary dampness, to name just a few of the qualities that define a good paper. And the variety! Oh my goodness, if I live a hundred years I will still not have tried every paper that deserves to be tried. Do not cheat yourself by using "whatever is at hand." If you love the craft, love the materials, and they will in turn reward you with infinite pleasure. I create an image--it has come from the bowels of my deepest experience. I carefully try to capture the feeling, the thought or concept, simple or complex, the fleeing essence of what I have created. I transfer this part of my soul to a block of wood. The chisels take over, they modify, the music takes over and I carve for hours, every line a deliberate decision, every dark defined by light, every light will become pure paper. Then I print, by hand or press, each print strives to be a perfect print, each ink pass a delight, each circle of the baren an urgent command to the block to give up the image and lovingly transfer it to...the paper. The paper is the final resting place for the image. I want it to last forever. To use a cheap paper would be to insult the entire process, and deprive myself of the ultimate experience. Use a cheap paper as a gift to my closest family and friends and good paper to exchange for some stranger's money? This really does not make sense to me, but as always, to each his/her own. Prints belong on paper, or perhaps more accurately, real prints belong on real paper. That would, in my opinion, include digital prints, an art form in their own right. Reproductions...those I know nothing about. Health to all, Maria <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Maria Arango Las Vegas, Nevada, USA http://www.1000woodcuts.com maria@mariarango.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------------ From: Studio Dalwood Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 20:53:27 +1000 Subject: [Baren 14528] Archival Just a quick point. If you use non-archival paper as opposed to archival paper when producing a print, the support on which the image rests will not have the same life span in each case. Therefore, to be fair to your purchasers, this should be noted on the print. Accordingly, the products you have produced will not have the same intrinsic value and the prices should be adjusted to reflect this. Its also about protecting yourself against future complaints and bad publicity. I heard a story (urban legend?) of someone who purchased a very expensive encaustic painting and left it in the sun on the back seat of their very expensive car. You can imagine the result! Wish I could remember the details, I think it eventuated in an also very expensive law suit against the gallery who made the sale. Sounds like the sort of thing that would happen in New York, doesnt it? Any one know the case? Josephine ------------------------------ From: b.patera@att.net Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 02:38:50 +0000 Subject: [Baren 14529] archival/non-archival All this talk of archival vs non-archival, hand pulled vs computer printout is, I guess, fairly relevant to me. I am currently experimenting with computer prints (archival paper but HP Deskjet672C inks) used as chine colle'd pieces in other handpulled prints. In most cases I really like what is happening in the prints. There have been a few failures but these have been with the design not the materials. Have been testing the inks.... the primitive, leave in the sun, one half covered test. It's been almost a year now and I see no sign of fading....but plan to give it another year as I live in Washington State. This brings me to a couple of questions I've been meaning to ask for a long time. What is archival??? What does it mean in terms of time..... 25 yrs., 100yrs., 500yrs.???? And how long does pigment have to last to be considered permanent? Are we talking about lasting a lifetime or are we talking about a half-life of 5000 years? Barbara P. ------------------------------ From: "bemason" Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:33:58 -0700 Subject: [Baren 14530] Re: archival/non-archival Hi Barbara, Archival means it will last 100 years with no visible change in the print or the paper when properly stored. This means away from direct light and in controlled temperatures. Dr Gilkey at the Portland Art Museum said work stored in this manner would probably last 1000 years, not 100, so I guess that will be a lot longer than any of us or our collectors will care. Some of those Japanese prints are 300-400 years old and still look pretty good and I do not think that paper was rag or stored away from light and in controlled temperatures, but it must have been pretty strong. Sure was nice today, about 90 degrees here. Pretty warm for so early in the year....probably will drop 20 degrees and rain tomorrow. That is the Pacific NW for you. Barbara ------------------------------ From: barebonesart Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 21:02:35 -0700 Subject: [Baren 14531] Re: Baren Digest v15 #1427 For a virtual course try www.worldprintmers.com. They have had a virtual course in screen printing going on for quite some time. I've forgotten the artist, but I'm sure there will either be information on the site as to how to contact him, or Mike Booth would know. He is the webmaster (I think that's what he's called!) While you're there check out some of the "digital artists" and what they're doing with their computers - pretty awesome. Marilynn, I'm afraid I am wholeheartedly in Garth's corner on this issue of value. With all the beautiful archival papers available today, I cannot understand anyone not being able to find one that would serve their purpose. For that matter, you could make your own to your own specifications - and make it archival. Sharri ------------------------------ From: "Kinzua" Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 07:30:56 -0400 Subject: [Baren 14532] Re: Baren Digest v15 #1427 charset="Windows-1252" Good for you, Dan. Thanks also to all who lent their advice on having a friend buy a piece to donate to a museum, or just donating it outright myself. I've had more ups and downs than a rollycoaster on this one and it still isn't a done deal, but at least I know what to do if they take a piece. Karen NYC http://homepages.msn.com/timessquare/kfberkenfeld/ ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 07:38:54 EDT Subject: [Baren 14533] Re: Baren Digest v15 #1427 On paper making. I have destroyed a number of blocks on amateur hand made paper. In press printed blocks the lumps will ding a block on a large run it will look like it is snowing. If you are hand pulling it the effect might look like a hickey in the ink but it would be in the paper. I feel it takes as long to learn how to be a professional paper maker as it takes to be a printer. This is true esp on Kozo. Cotton linter paper is easy and relatively lump free but does not have much character. I have made paper but just find it easier to buy the stuff. Akio's is just a bus ride away for the finest selection of Japanese papers (note I don't call them rice paper don't understand why they are called that as no rice is used in there production) and western papers are easy to get as well. I think my life expectancy would be much shorter if I made hand made paper at home anyway as the wood chips from my wood cutting drive my family nuts the mess from paper making would start WW3. John of the furry press ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest v15 #1428 *****************************