Baren Digest Tuesday, 19 June 2001 Volume 15 : Number 1461 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Elizabeth B. Atwood" Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:27:18 -0500 Subject: [Baren 14843] Eli's idea I agree with Eli's suggestion. We have been preaching to the choir long enough. It is time for some kind of action........and as someone said, better positive than negative. Let's get the information out there. How can we all help in this project? ElizA, Union, Maine ------------------------------ From: "Gillyin Gatto" Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:45:25 -0700 Subject: [Baren 14844] ebay discussion hello bareners-- my two cents on the ebay/print identification idea i think its a good idea to do an ad as original woodcut printmakers attempting survival in a world of reproduced everything ... i a gree that most customers DO NOT know or even care and often are looking at woodcuts believing they are looking at paintings but its still worth educating those who do care and attempting to retain the integrity of what a hand pulled original really is i find i dont want to have my work in a gallery that is full of reproductions on canvas and glicee prints often they are selling for more than original woodcuts and engravings-at least here in maine my gallery in bar harbor ALONE MOOSE has started writing "-hand carved and printed " on a corner of my prints even tho they dont carry any glicee prints oh and they sold my framed mermaid print on the first day of "Splash........Mermaids " the summer 2001 theme show - -its sort of like our themed exchanges but we have many artists i n many mediums ,doing work on the theme- mermaid i am trying to finish up a very large ' seal and sea lion' woodcut in luan plywood 20 x 33" for this show which can be added- to thru out the summer i dont think we'll stop anyone from selling and calling" original" -prints that are not original- because they have co-opted the word to mean what they want to to mean-much like the fellow whose response "-whats all this fancy talk?" does he sincerely not know what an original print really is ? or is he just greedy ? gillyin machias maine usa ------------------------------ From: "bemason" Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 07:44:08 -0700 Subject: [Baren 14845] ebay offer So far there are three yes and one no vote on this idea of Eli's. Before we involve baren in any possible backlash from rash action, or in this case very planned action we need to hear more votes. Four people cannot speak for such a large group so if you have a feeling about this, please let it be known. In case you missed the email, the idea is to put a page on ebay selling informaiton on how to tell a real print and what a giclee really is, most of the information will truly be in the discription of the item for sale, but we will have to have a nice little info sheet done up in case anyone actually buys one. We can start the price at $1 and as we have more than one it can be marketed this way. We should be able to pay for xeroxing and stamps by donation or sales. This would be a chance to spread correct information but we need imput from the membership. Thanks, Barbara ------------------------------ From: Daniel Dew Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:54:40 -0400 Subject: [Baren 14846] Re: ebay offer Add my voice to the yes category! Anything I can do to help, let me know. dan dew > So far there are three yes and one no vote on this idea of Eli's. Before we > involve baren in any possible backlash from rash action, or in this case > very planned action we need to hear more votes. > Four people cannot speak for such a large group so if you have a feeling > about this, please let it be known... > ------------------------------ From: Katherine Pukas Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 08:10:22 -0700 Subject: [Baren 14847] printing moku hanga on cloth or.... Hello, Barenland, I just sat up all night with my strange artistic musings/ponderings/plottings. I was wondering if anyone could recommend either a) a clothlike washi to print moku hanga on or b) a washi-like cloth to print moku hanga on. I've been having weird ideas about printing moku hanga on perhaps a relatively thin (but strong!) cloth. I am not counting on laundering it or anything afterwards. I just want the moku hanga print to stick to the cloth in the most permanent way possible. I would think that not laundering the work would open up *some* possibility for *something*. I think I'll just have to do some experimenting...?! I'd appreciate very much any suggestions you might have. ;) And I'm for the Ebay idea, too... It's a lovely idea: let us tell the world! It always makes me more than a bit nauseous when I see posters advertised as "art prints." As for the ""going with the couch" point... ahhh, it makes me sad--this has been quite true in what I have experienced. *STORY-TIME* I gave a woodcut print (actually more than one) to a certain to-remain-nameless couple; I showed them my portfolio, and they really seemed to embrace the idea of fine art printmaking--I even taught them how to tell a lithograph from an etching from a woodcut, etc.; the couple swore up and down that they would frame the woodcut I gave them. Half a year later, I returned to their home. My woodcut was not framed on their wall--it was nowhere to be seen. Still the posters of Van Gogh (lavishly, lavishly, laaaaavishly framed with double- and triple-mats!) retained their placement along their staircase and above their hearth. It makes me sad to see Van Gogh's artworks reproduced this way and sold to the masses, because I really empathize with the man (more than any art professor of mine ever seemed to). Van Gogh lived a miserable life, seemingly unappreciated while alive, and he didn't get to live to see (or have any control over) what is happening to his works now. Buying Van Gogh posters now is benefiting the poster-maker, and can't undo the artist's tragedy. It's like waiting for someone to die before putting their face on a postage stamp. I always say, "Please support artists in the here and now!" ....Just my take on things... *GREAT BIG SIGH* Love <3 & Lint * ! Kat Pukas http://www.u.arizona.edu/~katherip/art.html ------------------------------ From: "Maria Arango" Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 08:22:32 -0700 Subject: [Baren 14848] Printmaking Today charset="iso-8859-1" I finally got around to looking at the latest issue of Printmaking Today (Vol 10, No 1, Spring 2001). It is chock full of woodcut works and articles as well as many east-west commentary, has a feature on contemporary Japanese woodblock art, and an article on "successful sharpening of Japanese woodblock tools" by Rebecca Salter. To top it all off, Baren's site http://www.barenforum.org is mentioned on the Online News section. This is really a great journal for those who like to keep up with the Printmaking World, although with UK emphasis since that is where the journal is produced. You can send requests for info to mail@cellopress.co.uk (new address, just moved). If you would prefer to write: Printmaking Today Cello Press Limited Office 10 - Spinners Court 55 West End witney Oxon OX28 1NH UK ------------------------------ From: Marco Flavio Marinucci Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 08:57:08 -0800 Subject: [Baren 14849] "Japanese Print Making" by Toshi Yoshida hello there fellow bareners. I cannot seem to get my hands on one of these so I was wondering if there was a kind soul who owns it whom is willing to make xeroxes of it and sent them to me. I will happily pay for shipping and xerox costs. Please let me know. Grazie, Marco Flavio San Francisco, CA ------------------------------ From: Sunnffunn@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:27:51 EDT Subject: [Baren 14850] Re: Fw: giclee I support the information idea but can not commit time with this move in the wings. But i would send on 10 dollars if you decide to move forth with it. Marilynn ------------------------------ From: "JD Roehrig" Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:44:15 -0600 Subject: [Baren 14851] Re: ebay offer charset="iso-8859-1" Barbara, I also believe that the niiave public will not change until some significant enlightenment occurs, which probably will not be us. Let us give it a shot, this is a yes vote. I really didn't like your gentleman's smart ass comments and replies. I like Garth, will help to fill the War Chest. JD Lincoln County, New Mexico ------------------------------ From: "Maria Arango" Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:13:51 -0700 Subject: [Baren 14852] change at the helm charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Baren membership, Due to intense (but positive) life happenings, I am no longer a member of the Baren council, the managing body of Baren. I am announcing this on the public list because some of you approach me off list as a member of the council and to make the change somewhat "official." If you check the barenforum.org website, you will find the remaining members listed and you can approach one of them should the need arise. Health to all, Maria ------------------------------ From: "Philip Smith" Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:29:15 -0700 Subject: [Baren 14853] Re: ebay offer charset="iso-8859-1" Give a look-see at www.artsinternational.org/about_ai.htm they might be a bit of assistance. Philip Hammond,OR USA ------------------------------ From: "kate courchaine" Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 18:54:12 Subject: [Baren 14854] Re: Eli's idea I think that baren, and other printmaking groups are the perfect vehicle for educating the public on definitions of types of prints and the difference between a print and a reproduction. I wonder if there is already a group working on this task? If so should we pair up? A international standard of definitions would be ideal. I strongly support public educational efforts by baren. Kate Courchaine ------------------------------ From: Shireen Holman Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 15:02:47 -0400 Subject: [Baren 14855] Re: ebay offer At 07:44 AM 6/18/01 -0700, Barbara wrote: >So far there are three yes and one no vote on this idea of Eli's. Before we >involve baren in any possible backlash from rash action, or in this case >very planned action we need to hear more votes. >Four people cannot speak for such a large group so if you have a feeling >about this, please let it be known. I'm in favour of this idea. The only part I don't understand (probably because I don't pay attention to ebay) is why we need to sell as opposed to just posting the information? The guy who wrote to you, Barbara, sounds totally obnoxious. He appears to have no respect whatsoever for artists. Shireen ------------------------------ From: Shireen Holman Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 15:05:15 -0400 Subject: [Baren 14856] Re: Eli's idea At 06:54 PM 6/18/01 +0000, Kate wrote: >I think that baren, and other printmaking groups are the perfect vehicle >for educating the public on definitions of types of prints and the >difference between a print and a reproduction. I wonder if there is >already a group working on this task? If so should we pair up? A >international standard of definitions would be ideal. I strongly support >public educational efforts by baren. Joining with other groups is not a bad idea. Perhaps the American Print Alliance would be interested? Shireen ------------------------------ From: "bemason" Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:34:17 -0700 Subject: [Baren 14857] Eli's idea The yes votes are piling up, only one no so far. I think Shireen, your idea of joining up with the American Print Alliance is a good one, perhaps we can offer a subscription to their magazine as the for sale item or do a separate booklet about prints and what is real. I know Carol Pulin a bit so I can send her an email and tell her what we are considering. I know they already have a good glossary of terms. As far as ebay goes, we need a product to sell in order to list with them. It is a wonderful informaiton distribution system and many many people see the for sale items if you know how to list them correctly. Anyone willing to pull a little info together? I just did a book for teachers for the NW Print council but it weighs 2# so we would go broke shipping it. However maybe a smaller easily copied booklet. Eventually we could probably get a grant to do this, if our non profit thing ever comes through. volunteers to do this booklet????I can send my info, who has time to do this? Barbara ------------------------------ From: Daniel Dew Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 15:46:15 -0400 Subject: [Baren 14858] Re: Eli's idea I don't know how to do it, but I've heard it's not very expensive: What about a disc? "The A - Z's Of Traditional Hand Pulled Prints"? You could load a disc with tons of info, examples, yada, yada, yada... inexpensively and shipping would be almost nada. My 2 cents. dan dew ------------------------------ From: "Jeanne Norman Chase" Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:06:03 -0400 Subject: [Baren 14859] Re: Eli's idea charset="iso-8859-1" Perhaps we could all sign some kind of a petition, written with scholarly intent (hey, Maria). and send it on to EBay. It is surprizing how uninformed the public is re; printmaking, repros, etc. Every time I have an Open Studio , I am amazed at the questions. "Where is the original?", "Why do you do several , all the same?", "How can I tell if it is run off by a print shop, or an artist"? More of the same. I guess it is up to we printmakers to get the word out, and out and out. How can we do this, Eli????? Jeanne N. ------------------------------ From: Sunnffunn@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:21:30 EDT Subject: [Baren 14860] Re: ebay offer YES Marilynn in Oregon ------------------------------ From: "eli griggs" Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:24:13 -0400 Subject: [Baren 14861] Re: sharpening charset="iso-8859-1" Hi there: I am so very sorry for taking so long to get back to you, but my keyboard went on strike on the internet PC, so I am trying to use a small (non-internet) laptop to write my longer email. I hope I can help you by telling you what you need to do to sharpen a single bevel knife to the point of raising a wire edge, without which any attempt at sharpening is futile, and how to finish off the task by bring up a polished surface. If you can do this with a knife, then your next step is to try a flat, bull-nosed chisel (Ai-suki). These are the most important of your carving tools, and are part of a natural progression to gouges and 'V' tools. Sharpening is easy, if you do not skip steps and understand from the beginning that any piece of metal that is capable of becoming a truly sharp tool (and the material it is designated to cut) sets the standard, not you. There are any number of methods that you can use to put an edge on a tool, but you have waterstones and with a couple of exceptions or additions, that is exactly what I would recommend. For a well sharpened, single bevel woodcut knife, the requirements are simple. You need a flat back and a flat, intersecting angle, as free as possible of scratches, secondary faces, and highly polished. Together they form the sharp edge that will part wood fibres. The reason for a very flat back is simple. If you imagine that you are looking at the thin bottom edge of an unflattened blade straight on with a very strong glass, you would see not a straight line, but an up and down profile that dips and rises with the material. If you were to sharpen only the bevel of the blade, without making the back truly flat, you would not be able to merge the angle of the bevel with the plane of the back into a straight, evenly thin edge. As such, it would be more difficult to cleanly part by slicing wood fibres when pulled across a board. Here is also a good place to talk about scratches. When a piece of metal is shaped by grinding, by waterstone or machine or pol ishing compound or whatever, it is being abraded. It does not matter how fine the particle size of the abrading material, metal is removed by scraping and scratches are left in the surface of the blade. If you take your knife in hand and look closely at its' surface you can see patterns of small scratches in the metal. If you could use a strong enough glass to view the edge of the blade, from the edge-on angle of view, you would see crevasses where the edge is broken. Viewed from the flat of the bottom or from the top, the edge of blade would resemble a crude saw. When you sharpen the blade, you will reduce the size of these scratches and in effect polish the blade, so that it will better slice through wood fibres. A polished blade is always sharper because there is less friction! Scratches also show you where metal is being worn, in what direction, etc. I should point out to you that it is perfectly normal for a well made blade to be sold by the maker, needing its' back flattened and it's bevel shaped and sharpened and polished. It is, after all, the unknown end-user who decides what material the tool will be used to cut and how. Therefore there is only a basic effort at shaping and sharpening by the maker. You have to tune-up each and every one of your tools to bring them up to their best. Once that is done, you can keep you tools sharp with minium effort. Lapping Flattening the back of a single bevel knife or flat chisel is known as lapping. This is the first thing that you should do to your knife and flat chisels and it is important that you do it well. I do not know if you have blades that can be removed from handles or if they are fixed. If they are removable, leave them in the handle, you can control the blade better. You need only lap the first inch or so of the area behind the edge, whatever protrudes from the handle. Use both hands to control the blade. One hand moves the blade back and forth across the stone and the other applies a medium but firm downward pressure on top of the blade, keeping it from tipping in any direction. If the back of the blade edge has any angle on it, it will spoil your efforts by changing the geometry of the blade. It is very important that your waterstones are flat, where flat tools are sharpened. When you move a small blade back and forth across a stone repeatedly, the stone quickly becomes dished, always along an edge. When that happens, you end up with a trough that will defeat any effort you make at maintaining a flat face or back. The area where the end of the tool rubs will also dish and wear away at the tip. A worn area of a waterstone should never be used for the flat surface angles needed by a knife or chisel! Try to reserve one side of your stone for flat tools and use the other for gouges, for which grooves are preferred. I will note here that I recommend something other than a waterstone for the initial flattening of a small tools' back. The reason for this is that when you first lap a blade flat it may need quite a bit of work. Waterstones are great, but they wear away so fast that it is more economical to use a medium or fine grit diamond stone to waste away the excess metal. Diamond stones backed by 1/4 inch of metal of about 1 x3 inches and in grits of about 320 and 600 are cheap and can be bought just about anywhere. They can also be used to reshape a blade quickly and if you decide to reshape blades for cutting circles or straight edges, will make life much easer. If you buy such a stone, first rub its' cutting surface on a iron pans' bottom or a brick, to knock off any oversized lumps of diamond grit, that may otherwise cut rogue grooves and scratches into your blade. To use it, apply a medium pressure and flush the stone often with water, just like a waterstone, to remove spent particles. As you finish up, lighten the pressure but keep the blade in the correct position. This is also something you would do with a waterstone, so your last several strokes do not cut so deeply and begin to polish the blade. Once a blade has been flattened, then it is only the matter of reducing the scratches by working the blade on fine and finer stones, taking care not to become impatient and progress to the next stone before removing the scratches made by the last stone. By-the-way, US and Japanese grit sizes are determined by different scales. A stone of 320 US may be very different that a Japanese stone using the same number. Be careful not to get locked into a mindset of accepting numbers/standards as universal and trust to your own powers of observation. Because of the size of these small blades, it is easy to remove a lot of metal quickly and once properly lapped, the flats of the blades are easy to maintain. That is, if they are lapped on flat stones. When you have finished lapping with the 4000 grit you are ready to move on to the bevel. The bevel face is simple to sharpen, but needs careful attention. Latter, when you have more experience sharpening, you can better determine how shallow or acute an angle you need; for dense or soft woods, or a compromise. For now I will assume that your knife has a good face and angle on it, needing only bringing up to a sharp edge and polish. When you take a single bevel blade that has a good, flat back to it and work the face of the bevel properly on your stones, the face of the bevel will remain flat and eventually, a wire edge will appear alone the entire edge of the blade. It is the meeting of the two angles of the blade, front and back, that the wire edge signifies. You can not properly sharpen any tool without raising a wire edge. Take your medium grit waterstone and place the face of the blade onto the flat surface, using a finger or two from your free, controlling hand to apply pressure right on top of the blade, keeping the bevel flat. You will be able to tell, as you work the blade, at a slow to medium speed, back and forth across the stone, if the bevel is rocking to and fro. You will also know, both by feel and inspection by eye, if the face of the blade is wearing unevenly. It takes only a few strokes to introduce an error into the face of the bevel, so remember that you are trying for one flat even plane across the face. Be careful to have the cutting edge of the blade parallel with the end of the stone and move perpendicular to that angle. It is easer to maintain the blades' geometry this way. While it is ideal for the blade to wear evenly that is not always the case. Also remember that it is the tip of the blade that does the most cutting, so this is where you need to focus most of your downward pressure with your free hand. As the blade is made sharp, the thin wire edge will appear. You can feel it form well in advance of being able to see it, but for the first few times out, you should waste enough metal so you know what a wire edge looks like and as a proof that you have indeed raised it and that it spans the length of the edge. It also helps to see where the metal is most quickly being worn away from so you can adjust your method. Keeping a glass, to view your tool, with your sharpening kit is always a good idea. Sometimes people are loath to remove metal from a new or favoured tool, knowing that one day it will be gone. That sort of attitude keeps them from getting good service from their gear. A knife is no good if it is not keep in top shape and the only way to make it sharp is to wear away metal. It is perfectly natural and when your blade is worn past utility, get another! Once you have raised a wire edge alone the entire edge, leave it in place and move on to your 4000 grit stone. Carefully work the face of the blade as before. When the face of the blade is polished free of the scratches from the courser stone, turn the blade onto its back and lap the back to remove the wire edge. You will likely need to work the back and face several times to remove the wire. Once it is removed your blade is sharp and ready to work. You must remove all of the wire before using the tool. Do not get impatient and give a small lift to the edge, so as to force the wire off, that would spoil your work and introduce a secondary bevel. Some people swear by secondary bevels, small, more acute angles purposely made at the edge of the blade, about 1/16 to 1/8th inch wide. I recommend against them for woodcut carving tools. They introduce unnecessary complications into the process and should not be used by beginning wood carvers until they have mastered all of the basic methods needed to sharpen their equipment by hand. It is possible to further polish (and thereby sharpen) the blade, by using 6000 or even 8000 grit stones or a good woodworkers honing compound applied to a small flat smooth block of pine, mahogany or basswood. I would use some Yellow Stone or Chromium Oxide compound (no other) on wood and wait until you have properly learned to use the waterstones you already have. Very fine stones like the 6000 and 8000 are treated differently than courser stones and are easy to damage. When you have a firmer grasp on sharpening, then you will likely want to add one to your method. Honing compound needs to applied in a spare manner, so as not to cake up on the surface of the wood or come off onto a tool when honed. The honing compound does effectually remove metal. The blackened marks left behind on the hone are proofs of metal removed. Do not push the blade edge forward across the block, it will cut into the wood. Instead, drag it edge backwards or side to side, using both hands, as you did with the stones. Do not use a leather hone, they will alway give a little and will round over your edges. You can extend the life of an edge, by honing it often, as you work. You do not need the course stones often, the medium and fine stones will do for most sharpening maintenance. Your waterstones are either natural or man-made (Duh-hu.) If they are natural, they should not be left in water for storage, as they are sandstone and will fall apart. If they are man-made they may be stored in water, but I do not recommend it for long periods. The courser stones will be ok, but 4000 grit stones tend to feel a bit gummy after a while. When you are carving, you will want to keep your stones wet and ready, so you can use them often. Japanese tools are at their best when razor sharp and once you get the hang(a) of sharpening, then the routine of carve, sharpen, carve, sharpen, will feel completely natural. Place your stones is a clean water bath, in which they are completely submerged, about 30 minutes before you need them. Flush away any loose grit and metal as you work, so that new material is exposed and metal particles are removed. A spray bottle of water is useful for this. A piece of lint free rag attached to a stick to form a mop also works well, as does a large toothbrush. Waterstones are messy, but the fine edges they can give and their speed make them worth the effort to use. You will want a lot of Bounty towels at hand. It is important that you wipe away any grit from courser stones from your tool, before going onto subsequent stones. Particles of courser grit can become temporally embedded in the next finer stone and defeat your attempts at refining your blades' finish. The waterstones you have are a course, medium and fine grit. The course grit can be used for rapidly repairing a large missing tip from a knife, instead of using a diamond stone, which happens quite often when carving dense woods, like cherry. It can be used to shape and lap blades if you decide not to get a diamond and will do a good job. The medium stone will do the main work of sharpening and bringing up the all important wire edge. It should also be used to repair a small, missing tip. The fine stone is used for the removal of the wire edge and putting a polish onto the blade. Remember that you must work these stones and any hone on a flat stable surface. If the stone rocks or if your body position is badly centered and causes you to roll the blade while working, you will not be able to keep your blade flat. Last of all, make sure that you remove all traces of moisture before setting aside any tool. These tools are not stainless and will rust in a few hours if conditions are right. Either wipe the tool down with a light sheen of Camellia or Olive oil or wax it with a bit of beeswax, letting a thin coat become cloudy on the metal, and then buffing the excess away. These protection's should not affect your printmaking negatively. Woodworkers shops sell rubber blocks invested with grit, for rust removal. Buy a very fine grit and use it only on the unpolished area of your tools. Otherwise, use your waterstones to remove any hint of rust A.S.A.P. If any of this is confusing, let me know and I will try to clear up any questions you may have. Best regards, Eli Griggs Charlotte N.C. USA ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V15 #1461