Baren Digest Tuesday, 19 June 2001 Volume 15 : Number 1463 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 01:46:49 -0500 Subject: [Baren 14881] Re: Eli's idea & ebay offer 06/19/2001 01:46:42 AM Wow, I did not realize my post would gather up the troops in such an uproar. You guys are FANtastic! I too would like to join the group and support such a project...as long as it is in a positive and educational format. We should not be getting into a war of words with the other side. The quality and beauty of our prints should always lead the way...and be our best spokesman. I agree with Maria and some of the others that we should not get into a word fight with the people making repros...they have a right to make a living just like everyone else and if they are doing something illegal, well, I think there are people & agencies out there that can make them accountable. I am all for us banding together and/or with other printmaking groups/sites & putting together a document that describes the differences between all the print media, digital imaging, giclees etc.....as long as it is fair to all and educational and we make it available for almost nothing. Such an article can be "read" on ebay, linked to our baren site and others and basically given away to anyone who asks....the price can be the minimum necessary by ebay, remembering that the object is to get people to read the thing...not necessarily to purchase it. There is one type of auction on ebay where a large number of like items can be sold thru one listing...we can put...500 for sale at $0.50 each (the cost of mailing ?)..that way people don't really bid on it but rather each person can get one at the initial offer price...cross reference the tittle for PRINTS, WOODBLOCKS, ART, etc....so as to reach as many search-types as possible....and then keep putting the "item" back outhere every couple of weeks...we can see how many hits we get a day, week, etc....to see how many people we are reaching. We must ensure that the info is clear in the article that this is not one of those money-making schemes so popular now on the net but rather an informational resource for print buyers put together by printmakers... the very low price and a CATCHY item description should attract hundreds if not thousands of peeks....we should also as a group be ready and willing to answer the many inquries & questions that are sure to come our way from confused or enlightened ebayers ....here is where a cd reference could be used to continue the education....perhaps not only educating the public but also including images of prints by some of our members and a detailed descrition of the process.... While it is good to keep shoving the info down people's throat like Maria says...this can't hurt the cause and has the potential to reach more people in one day than many of us could in a a whole year of preaching! Even with all the documentation and info I have posted at the Skokie exhibit, you be surpised how many people want to argue with me that what they are looking at are paintings or watercolors...and many really don't understand the whole print edition vs poster prints debate. Perhaps having the names of all the baren members willing to participate & back the project at the bottom of the document would add some credibilty to the information......something simple like artist's name, city, state and primary medium. I f we can get 200-300 names attached to this...that alone should raise some eyebrows! Sort of an emancipation declaration for the printmaking community. Julio ------------------------------ From: "Gregory Robison" Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:46:19 -0700 Subject: [Baren 14882] "Fake" vs. "real" prints charset="iso-8859-1" I would like to cast a vote against undertaking any project to re-educate the public regarding the virtues of our way of doing things. It is best, in my view, simply to do well what we do, and make it easy for people to find out about us and to buy our work. Certificates of authenticity and brief explanations of the traditional printmaking process we practice are great ideas. Press releases that clearly describe the way we work and its place in the spectrum of artistic methods would be useful. In both of these areas the Council can be useful in collecting possible forms or language which can be freely available to the membership for use as appropriate. But any commentary by us about what other people are doing, or what they should be doing (or not doing), is pointless, ineffectual and distracting. It is pointless and ineffectual because the trends we are trying to stem -- whether these trends are due to commercial or artistic motivations (or even greed) -- are deep and, ultimately, unstoppable. But it is also distracting for us, as a group of artists dedicated to a particular art form, because the energy and resources we spend attempting to stop the tide are energy and resources that could have gone into something more positive. Very concretely, I am dismayed to hear how many people are eager and willing to offer a dollar or ten to fund this project instead of, say, offering to fund awards or prizes for excellent relief prints submitted to our shows or exchanges, or to help defray the expenses of exhibitions of the works of our members, or similar activities. Such prizes and exhibitions are occasions for press releases and publicity that will indirectly achieve our aim of educating the public, while directly promoting what we do. It is unrealistic, in my view, to say, "well, we can and must do both." It is very easy for any group to lose its focus, and Baren already has some divergent tendencies. It's also easy to start having the wrong kind of pride in what we do, i.e., not the pride that is "joy in excellence" but the pride that is a vice, whose synonym is arrogance. For example, the idea that buyers of art might look for something that will go with the sofa, or who change the framed artwork on their walls when they change their carpets, isn't necessarily such a contemptible notion. There was an article recently in one of the British arts magazines which quoted a UK artist as having finally recognized -- after having long been driven crazy by this -- that people who treat graphic art as wallpaper may well be artists, too, in their own way: it's just that their 'canvas' is their whole house. Just as we look at one of our own compositions and say, 'I need a warm color over here' and then work in an appropriate design element, some art buyers say to themselves, 'this corner in my room requires a bold graphic piece, one that is more vertical than horizontal, and that has some cool red in it,' etc. They may be able to get this, and create a successful composition for their whole room, with an original watercolor, or a reproduction, or a giclee print, or a hand-pulled woodblock print... We need to have the humility to recognize that what we do has, perhaps, some absolute worth as far as we are concerned, but only 'relative' worth as far as most consumers of art are concerned. This is not necessarily a moral failing on their part that demands correction from us or anyone else. As the Castilian peasants used to say (and maybe they still do, bless 'em!), Haz bien y no mires a quien ('Do the right thing and don't look at other people'), Gregory Robison Edinburgh, Scotland ----------------------------------------- From: michael schneider Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:00:25 +0200 Subject: [Baren 14883] Re: "Fake" vs. "real" prints Gregory,thank you. You explained my opinion better than I would have been able to. michael schneider Vienna, Austria ------------------------------ From: "Garth Hammond" Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 06:54:27 -0600 Subject: [Baren 14884] Re: more on giclees charset="iso-8859-1" Maria, Maria , Maria,,,,,, you can read this as tut tut tut or---as the lyrics of West Side Story......your choice...My intent is: You are right in your analysis of capitalism and the "Many more people than you may think aren't confused at all, they simply want a blue/teal semi-abstract for their wall " The point for me is that history is written by people who play in the events of the time. If we don't put our point of view out there then our point of view will dissappear. Our smart mouth Michael serves us. He represents the Vulgarian trend the make it loud and add bass, "make it for show" times that seem to be developing. We can lament this or respond to the best in ourselves. I like Maria's spiel and point of view funny irreverant and right on. If we want to sell and to contribute our nudge to the culture than we better get out there. I want to be clear as a personal statement that I do not like the culture I live in I find the materalistic psuedo religious SUV power culture to be life threatening and not affirming. However........This is where I am and I will do my best and I "believe" and have experienced that good will and focus can change minds and the directions of institutions. And I love it when someone gets it that the world is bigger than TV or advertising and that real mystery lurks everywhere. If you just shut up and look and listen which is what I am going to do. Bye Garth ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V15 #1463 *****************************