Baren Digest Thursday, 16 August 2001 Volume 16 : Number 1523 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GWohlken Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:59:49 -0400 Subject: [Baren 15403] Re: A Plea Dear Bareners, as archivist for the digests, I would love it if you wouldn't put whole long quotes under (or over) your reply messages. Maria's wonderful message to all of us has been quoted in its entirety quite a number of times and my Simple Text won't even let me cut and paste it when there is that much material. I even added memory to the program to no avail. So I ask you, please please pleeeeeeeeaaase, on bended knee I ask you to quote only a small portion of the message you are referring to when you reply to the Barenforum list. Don't misunderstand me, I love my job as archivist. However, sometimes our digests get really really long when they don't have to be. Thanks, everyone :-) Gayle ------------------------------ From: GraphChem@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:12:34 EDT Subject: [Baren 15404] Re: The young Dr. Frankenstein Whoa! Eli, I've got to tell you that Graphic Chemical isn't about to share with you what "pigments, oils, binders etc" go into our inks. I can assure you that if we weren't using top grade materials, we'd be out of business. If that means that you want to boycott us, so be it, but in today's world, sharing that information is tantamount to giving away the formula! Most inks have a very small number of ingredients, many have fewer than five. It would not be rocket science to determine what ratios produced the right mixture. It may not be something that the average barener would use to put me out of business, but there are a number of my customers out there (companies that most of you would view as my competitors) that have the equipment and the desire to use information such as you are suggesting to my direct detriment. I agree that it is important for artists to know their materials. But, first and foremost, you should know your supplier. I'll get off of my soapbox now. ------------------------------ From: "Gillyin Gatto" Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:12:30 -0700 Subject: [Baren 15405] V6 #1521 hello folks could someone forward #1521 to me my server crashed big time sometime on tuesday and i missed that one thanks gillyin ------------------------------ From: "bemason" Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:07:18 -0700 Subject: [Baren 15406] Graphic chemical Dean, This is very true, every product I have ever gotten from Graphic Chemical in my 20 years as a printmaker has been of excellent quality, I have never had a complaint. I cannot say that about Dan Smith or Dick Blick even the local art store. So I guess this is the best testimonial you can get, isn't it? Best to you, Barbara Mason Portland, OR But, first and foremost, you should know your supplier. I'll get off of my soapbox now. Dean Clark Graphic Chemical & Ink Company ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:53:46 -0700 Subject: [Baren 15407] Re: Baren Digest V16 #1522 Just a quick little reminder here, folks. Please, when you quote something that really got you stirred up enough to reply - remember to edit the quoted post down to a line or two. Otherwise it gets repeated umpteen times in the next digest. It makes the digest really hard for people to read. Great post Maria, I think it got quoted more than any other post in recent years! I'm going to print it out & hang it on the wall in my (2/3s completed) studio! Wanda Baren Forum Moderator PS: And pul---eeeze watch your language people. We do have youngsters reading this forum, and people who don't want to see our forum degenerate into an American cinema. :-) ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:53:23 EDT Subject: [Baren 15408] Re: Graphic chemical I am always in favor of using prof. materials. And graphic chemical has always supplied them. They have a full line of materials some of which I can't get anywhere else. Art stores may carry some of the things but can never carry them all and never at a better price. Printmaking is the main part of there bus. Some of the competitors it is only part of there bus. Graphic has always made it easier for me to do my printing. This is an unsolicited endorsement. John of the furry press ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:13:29 -0500 Subject: [Baren 15409] Re: Baren Digest V16 #1522 At 10:00 PM 8/15/2001 +0900, you wrote: >From: "Daniel Dew" > > > Someday I will figure out what the heck the deal is with the Speedball >ink. > > i.e. why does everyone turn their nose up at me when I mention I use them? > > It's the only ink I've ever used and I love it. I've tried others and I > > don't like them. Is it just 'cause they are "kiddy inks"? Or is there > > really a difference? Mike Lyon here, Dan. I don't think Eli meant that there was anything 'bad' about Speedball inks -- just that you ought to educate yourself about your materials -- papers, binders, pigments -- some pigments fade rapidly on exposure to sunlight, some papers become yellow and crispy after only a few months and fall apart after a year or five! Speedball is a major producer which has the reputation for producing supplies of consistent and reasonably good quality -- and its products are very widely available -- Speedball can tell you about the permanence and light-fastness of its products -- or you can look that information up in many artist's supply catalogs. Unless you INTEND for your work to change color (usually fade) over time, or just plain fall to pieces, you owe it to yourself and your collectors to use the highest quality materials you can afford (that doesn't always mean the most expensive, either). Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon@mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: GraphChem@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:00:23 EDT Subject: [Baren 15410] Testimonials John and Barbara - Thank you for the unsolicited testimonials. While I wasn't looking for them, it always feels good to know that people recognize the value of your product etc. It isn't that we are without fault - it's just, I hope, that we're willing to work with customers when there is a problem. We have always encouraged printmakers to know their materials. When I first started here (1968) that wasn't something that many printmakers really cared about. We recommended alternative products that were less hazardous, years before it was in vogue. In the early '80's, we were the only small manufacturer to join with the group that formed ACMI. It was Grumbacher, Binney & Smith, Hunt Mfg, Winsor-Newton. Martin/F.Weber and us. ACMI is now the primary certifying organization for artists materials in the US. It's not just, however, about health and safety. The quality of your materials is a precursor to the quality of your work. Just because something is labeled a certain way, or priced less expensively doesn't mean that it is an inferior product. By the same token, a higher price can't be used to judge quality either. Again, thanks for the kind words. I'm off next week to the Impact show in Helsinki. Hopefully, there will be lots of Baren members and potential members there. Dean ------------------------------ From: "Ramsey Household" Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:39:20 -0700 Subject: [Baren 15411] Graphic Chemical boundary Besides having excellent products, Graphic Chemical also has outstanding service! They sent out a free water-based ink sample (very generous amount) and free sample pack of their papers. They have to have confidence in the excellence of their products to be able to do this. The ink was as good as an oil based product, in my opinion. I have used their oily inks in lithography also, at the University of Texas. They were excellent. Carolyn ------------------------------ From: Shireen Holman Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:38:59 -0400 Subject: [Baren 15412] Whelan press Hello everyone, Does anyone have a Whelan press, and if so, do you like it or not and what do you like or not like about it? I saw one at the Southern Graphics Council conference in March - its advantages seem to be that it takes up less room than other presses, and it weighs a whole lot less (definitely an advantage!) I know this is a forum for using a baren, but I think I'm still a press person. Shireen *********************************************** Shireen Holman, Printmaker and Book Artist email: shireenh@earthlink.net http://www.shireenholman.com *********************************************** ------------------------------ From: Greg Carter Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:16:21 -0400 Subject: [Baren 15413] Re: speedball ink. Dan, I think it is safe to say that you use speedbal because it works for you(not because it is cheap) and that makes it fine. The only thing would be its lightfastness wich you can check out. I do not think one has to stop using it, but the buyer needs to know that it will not last-especially in direct light. Greg Carter >i will reply on speed ball ink > >I saw a chemist study on different inks/things such as pigment density, tack >and other factors. The quality of speed ball was the weakest of all the inks >in the study in all the factors mentioned. The only thing they had going for >um was price. Speed ball is designed for school use just as construction >paper, etc. There is a use for it but the draw backs are known. > The point of using professional quality ink is it is the artist that >controls the ink and not the ink controlling the artist. > >Example because the pigment density is so weak in speedball it is only meant >to be used straight out of the tube. With graphic chemical ink and Daniel >Smith and many others the ink can be modified to give you very many different >levels of opaqueness. I rarely print it straight adding extender or >transparent base, etc., to change the ink. > >The tack of speed ball ink is wrong thus the nature of it to over ink a print. > >Graphic chem ink can be modified so I never have this problem. > >If you put a great deal of effort into your print the difference between the >cost of prof. ink and school ink should not stop you from using the best >material avail > >John of the furry press ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V16 #1523 *****************************