Baren Digest Monday, 20 August 2001 Volume 16 : Number 1528 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "April Vollmer" Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 12:00:59 -0400 Subject: [Baren 15435] RE: Baren Digest V16 #1527 My ink is better than yours!! Nyah, nyah! I am mystified by this rancorous exchange! Anyway, I have a serious hanga question about a technique I can't find in the encyclopedia. Perhaps one of the Davids knows of a way to polish a black area? I have a black on black (sumi ink) print and want to differentiate one area from another. The encyclopedia has a WONDERFUL description of metal powders and of mica printing, and of embossing. I must thank David Bull again for this wonderful resource. I was working in my studio, and this thing came up, so I checked the encyclopedia, and found a wealth of suggestions. However, I didn't see this technique I have heard of for polishing an area of the print to make it shiny. Anyone know how to do this? Thank you! April www.aprilvollmer.com P.S. for those of you who wanted to come to my show and couldn't I have photos up at http://www.aprilvollmer.com/gallery.html The show was mostly digital, but I had my portfolio of hanga woodcuts there too. I do find the two inform one another, I am enjoying going back and forth, borrowing ideas from both approaches. This print I'm working on now grew out of ideas from the digital work, but it's a large woodcut. P.P.S. I was printing with my ball bearing baren, it is very useful. Then I had trouble because my block had a hollow that caused the surface to get uneven. I have to tell you, I was so glad to find my hon baren, my real bamboo coil baren. It is so much more flexible and powerful than the metal one. I paid a lot of money for it, but no comparison, it's the best! ------------------------------ From: "bemason" Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 09:30:13 -0700 Subject: [Baren 15436] Re: Baren Digest V16 #1527 April, I don't know the answer, but what if you used a varnish on the area you want shiny, wouldn't that make the ink look different? Just a thought from a total beginner in Hanga, so don't eveyone fall off their chair laughing......:~) Barbara =I have a black on black (sumi ink) print and want to differentiate one > area from another. > > I have heard of for polishing an area > of the print to make it shiny. Anyone know how to do this? > April > www.aprilvollmer.com > ------------------------------ From: "bemason" Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 09:35:22 -0700 Subject: [Baren 15437] Great shows April, Your work is so wonderful, I know people seeing it do not see the animal element in those geometric designs as they are too far away. What a great show. I especially like the picture of you in the last shot, dwarfed by those large woodcuts. Congratualtions!!!!!! Barbara P.S. sorry for the double posting guys, but after I saw this site I just had to post again. > P.S. for those of you who wanted to come to my show and couldn't I have > photos up at http://www.aprilvollmer.com/gallery.html > The show was mostly digital, but I had my portfolio of hanga woodcuts there > too. I do find the two inform one another, I am enjoying going back and > forth, borrowing ideas from both approaches. This print I'm working on now > grew out of ideas from the digital work, but it's a large woodcut. > ------------------------------ From: "Maria Arango" Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 10:32:04 -0700 Subject: [Baren 15438] FW: Art Boards Archival Panels I thought I would turn the senseless bickering to also include matrix. Here is a potentially great resource for woodcut printmakers of the experimenting kind. I asked about larger panels for the monster woodcutters in the group and will forward the answer as soon as they reply. I have not tried either the maple panels nor the fiber panels, but will danged soon (I thought I would through a pseudo-cuss word so the word-police would get their panties in a bunch). Okay, I'll start: "Shina sucks, cherry rocks My wood is better than your wood!" :-) Maria <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Maria Arango Las Vegas, Nevada, USA http://www.1000woodcuts.com maria@mariarango.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> -----Original Message----- From: Artboard [mailto:artboard@earthlink.net] Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 5:57 AM To: maria@mariarango.com Subject: Art Boards Archival Panels Please consider adding a link to our web site. Art Boards makes Archival Painting Panels, Cradled, Uncradled, and Round. Panels are made of Natural Maple or Natural Fiber. Art Boards also makes canvas stretchers in round and oval shapes. Many artist are using our natural Fiber panels for carving wood cuts. There is no grain direction so they cut very easily, there print quality is not as crisp as end grain wood. but there is a very nice quality about it. They print well on a letter press and the quality of the plate increases with more printing. You can check out our web site to see some of the art supply stores that are doing very well with Art Boards. Please let me know of your interest . Sincerely, Patrick Mackin 718 237 2592 http://www.art-boards.com ------------------------------ From: "eli griggs" Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 15:54:06 -0400 Subject: [Baren 15439] Re: FW: Art Boards Archival Panels Hi there: I don't know anything about the product Mr. Mackin is offering, but I do want to contribute to the burning topic of Shina ply versa Cherry board ;) A few months ago, a salesman at the local Woodcraft gave me a business card printed on a 2 ply cherry veneer. The cherry is a beautiful surface and I am wondering if anyone has tried applying cherry veneer (or other select wood) to the Shina plywood? If you use a strong, tool friendly, non toxic, waterproof glue, like Gorilla Glue, you could possibly have the best of both worlds, ease of carving in the Shina base and surface detail from the cherry. Because applying veneer is a fairly common DYI woodworkers skill, I do not think the method would be too difficult to pick up. The woodworkers stores and catalogues are full of veneers and related tools. Small presses, like those used by paper makers and book binders could be called in to service for relatively small 'home grown' blocks. Because veneers are high quality wood, and sheered off trees in long, wide sections, I further suppose that fairly large panels could be created for woodcut. More fuel for discussion... Am I correct in thinking that Shina is a type of linden or Basswood? If it is, then I will mention the (remote) possibility of having a small mill, make up an order of solid core basswood ply, with a select cherry surface on one side, using glue of the sort I mentioned above. It may seem far fetched, but I believe that there are many small mills that make plywoods and can easily fill a custom order. Of course you would need deep pockets and a market for your excess product, but if a shina/basswood, cherry ply proved popular among woodcut artists, then the Baren Mall might serve as a venue to an international market. I am not saying that Baren should get into the business of making plywood, only that if some enterprising person went out and made up some cherry/shina, The Mall might want to carry it and pocket a share of the revenues, as it now does for other products. Artist often pay premium plus prices for their grounds, so why not take advantage of the services of the modern economy and make a product to our specifications? Best regards, Eli ------------------------------ From: ArtfulCarol@aol.com Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:27:17 EDT Subject: [Baren 15440] Re: Baren Digest V16 #1527 April, Congratulations, loved your wonderful photos and work on your website, especially the close ups of plants on the North Wall. thank you for showing them. Carol ------------------------------ From: "Maria Arango" Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 13:36:28 -0700 Subject: [Baren 15441] FW: Art Boards Archival Panels custom sizes Ah, I just love fast customer service... -----Original Message----- From: Artboard [mailto:artboard@earthlink.net] Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 11:34 AM To: Maria Arango Subject: Re: Art Boards Archival Panels custom sizes Maria, Large panels are not a problem. Every thing is made here. I suggest you try a stock size to see how you like them. I will make you custom sizes quickly if you should want them. Thanks Patrick Mackin ----- Original Message ----- From: Maria Arango To: Artboard Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 1:27 PM Subject: RE: Art Boards Archival Panels Hi, Thanks for this information. I will definitely try your panels, I am looking for a decent surface that comes in 18 x 24 or larger. I also forwarded your info to a woodcut online forum. What is the availability of custom panels? Say 24" x 36" or soish. Thanks, Maria <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Maria Arango Las Vegas, Nevada, USA http://www.1000woodcuts.com maria@mariarango.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 10:58:04 -1000 Subject: [Baren 15442] Re: Baren Digest V16 #1527 One way that was used in Hanga (Yoshitoshi's printers used it often) was to carve a block for the polished areas, but not reversed. Then that block was put on the -back- of the finished print, and the front was burnished. Another technique was to print the shiny areas with lacquer (as used in oriental lacquer ware), but that would not be very easy. Jack Reisland April Vollmer wrote: > I didn't see this technique I have heard of for polishing an area > of the print to make it shiny. Anyone know how to do this? > ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 11:05:34 -1000 Subject: [Baren 15443] Re: FW: Art Boards Archival Panels This product is already available in Japan from Woodlike Matsumura, and may be available in the future from the Baren Mall. Jack Reisland eli griggs wrote: > If it is, then I will mention the (remote) possibility of having a > small mill, make up an order of solid core basswood ply, with a select > cherry surface on one side, using glue of the sort I mentioned above. ------------------------------ From: Printmaker Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:38:48 +1000 Subject: [Baren 15444] Ink Quality >Is there a relief printing chat list out there where people actually share information rather than make pronouncements about how much more they know than everyone else? Yes ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 06:35:23 +0900 Subject: [Baren 15445] Re: 'Polishing' black ... April wrote: > However, I didn't see this technique I have heard of for polishing an area > of the print to make it shiny. Anyone know how to do this? There are a few techniques that may apply here, but perhaps the one you're thinking of is the 'sho-men zuri' (front rubbing) technique. You cut a special block for the design component you wish to be shiny, but instead of in the normal reversed fashion, you cut it non-reversed. Then, when all the rest of the impressions on the print are done, you dry the paper as normal. Then put the print _face up_ over this block, and rub the front surface with the good smooth baren (your bearing baren won't work for this). The rubbing of the baren across the print with the carved area beneath, leaves a smooth shine over that area. There are a few things to watch for: - - because the paper is _wet_ during all other printing, and _dry_ for this step, the paper may be a different dimension. Keep this in mind when cutting the extra block. - - because the paper is dry and the block uses no pigment or paste, the paper wants to slide around. A bit of tape along one edge, or an assistant to help you 'pin' it down might be in order .... - - not _too_ much oil on the baren skin, as it will stain the print ... - - the takenokawa should be _very_ well rubbed before tying it on. Any roughness can leave striations on the print. It's a beautiful technique, sometimes a bit subtle, and frequently overlooked by the viewers. I like it! HTH Thanks for the nice comments about the Encyclopedia. Can't imagine when I'll ever be able to put more stuff into it - maybe in my _next_ life! Dave P.S. Dipping into my Inbox here this morning before heading off to the studios of TV Tokyo. I'm a guest today on a 'Family Treasures Appraised' program which is going to feature a spot on ukiyo-e. No, it's not one of _my_ treasures (I don't have any!) - I'll be on the other side of the table ... ------------------------------ From: Printmaker Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:06:41 +1000 Subject: [Baren 15446] Speedball Ink Garth pronounced >Time for a little man to man talk here Dan, Get over it. People are telling you what their experience is and that the product you use is low quality. What the hell do you expect from this Speedball Rep? Do you want him to say "tut tut those poor deluded people .........." If I had sent one of those messages I would be hot on your trail. Dan I have no problem with you forwarding my comments to speedball. A little consumer research you might say ... Anything posted to a public list is public of course and if speedball want to contact me about my comments, not a problem. Garth also said >I don't use Speedball because it is shit.(so much for the language police) I use Graphic Chem because it is a premier product. Well this echoes my sentiment as I said earlier. Call a spade a spade. I havent tested the lightfastness or archival qualities of speedball, didnt seem worth the bother as I did not like the way it handled. Dan I was not questioning your judgement or having a go at you, merely giving product feedback. Your work is always welcomed at my house _ I enjoy your prints very much as you already know. Have you tried any of the other brands -and in particular have you tried the graphic chemical stuff? Perhaps Dean could send you a free sample and while he's at it, I would like a free sample of the GC water based ink (Dean?) ANd Garth, settle down, this is ink we are discussing for gods sake, not of sufficient seriousness to get all hot and bothered about. Josephine ------------------------------ From: "Jim Bryant" Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:14:06 -0600 Subject: [Baren 15447] Re: Whelan press Yeah, presses are an investment. The prices that I gave you are for 24 x 48" press beds, both are floor models. Takach makes a tabletop model that can save you some money--i don't know if Whelan has a tabletop model. jim- - ---------- >From: "Garth Hammond" > Thanks, Wow 12K For some reason I thought it would be less. The image i had > of the Whelan was small and portable. I hadn't put it in the same league > with the big Takach units. I would have to give up painting to spring for > one of the those. > > garth ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V16 #1528 *****************************