Baren Digest             Wednesday, 22 August 2001     Volume 16 : Number 1531


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon@mlyon.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:43:19 -0500
Subject: [Baren 15461] Re: Baren Digest V16 #1530 

At 10:00 PM 8/21/2001 +0900, kemi wrote:
>hi Gayle,
>Have you considered using solar plates and printed the texts in relief?
>kemi
Hey, kemi!  Could you describe 'solar plate' a little more?  Materials and 
techniques?  Good for relief printing?

Thanks,

Mike

Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon@mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com 

------------------------------

From: Shireen Holman <shireenh@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:45:44 -0400
Subject: [Baren 15462] Re: Whelan press 

Jim,
Thanks for your information about the Whelan press. It does sound 
inconvenient to have to walk around the press each time. But I might be 
willing to put up with that for the price and weight of the press. But what 
about the print quality? Would you say the print quality is comparable to 
your Takach press?
Also, you said the Whelan might be good for someone who doesn't use a press 
that often. What about if you were to use the press often, but you were the 
only one using it most of the time? (it wouldn't get the sort of use a 
university printshop would get). Basically, it would get use but not abuse. 
Sorry about so many questions. Since I would be buying a press for myself, 
any amount I spend would be a huge amount, so I need to know what I'm getting.
Shireen

At 03:56 PM 8/18/01 -0600, Jim wrote:
>My limited experience with a Whelan Press (about a week earlier this year)
>is that they are generally good presses, especially considering the price. I
>found the most difficult aspect of using them in editioning, because the
>roller and wheel travel and the bed is stationary; to print you must walk
>with the wheel the length of the press, then after each print you have to
>walk around to the other side of the press to pull the print. (The wheel and
>roller block you from simply lifting the paper off of the
>block/plate/whatever.)
>
>When giving the choice, I bought a Takach.
>
>jim-

***********************************************
Shireen Holman, Printmaker and Book Artist
email: shireenh@earthlink.net
http://www.shireenholman.com
***********************************************


------------------------------

From: GWohlken <blueman@pantek.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:00:55 -0400
Subject: [Baren 15463] Re: Baren Digest V16 #1530 

Thanks everyone for your help.  I finally did find the place in the
Epson setup software where I can create the size paper I want to print
out.  

Maria, I would love to do what you suggest but can't imagine it with the
way I carve.  Can you see all the pertinent information like phone
numbers, time of curtain, and dates, so important to the poster, carved
in the hand I naturally have?  I considered carving the title itself,
but then I guess I'd have to do Agatha Christie's name hand carved as it
goes right under it.  I'm not skilled with carving geometric shapes even
if it would look charming as a hand carving.  And, especially, I
couldn't do it small because the wood I have on hand that is the right
size is basswood which is too soft.      

Solar plates as you  suggested, Kemi,  is an interesting idea.  I just
do woodcuts.  But, it's a good idea and one worth exploring for another
time.  

It's good to have discovered what my Epson printer can do
(papersizewise), so that helps.  And, I still do have the option to use
last year's handset letters (which, for shame, are still in the little
poster press) and just make a few changes (title of play and dates and
times) and create the poster totally, but it would still have the
smaller letters (largest size I have is 48 pt, which looks kind of small
on a poster).  We'll see.  I have a whole day of planning ahead of me
and maybe if I hand set Agatha Christie's name, I could still carve the
title, so it would have a little more style to it.

Philip said:
> You'll have 4 pieces,
> but it would be easy enough to mount them down. The cost would be 40 cents.
> Save that ink in your Stylus. And I would think you could go at least
> 17by22. Just an idea.

Philip, thanks for the good suggestion-- this sounds like an interesting
idea, yet I do feel compelled to make these myself, as the Lyric Guild
was talking about selling some of them (not lots of them, just a
handful) and I wouldn't want a glued down four-piece poster for them to
sell.  My idea was that the woodcut part of the poster would be
handprinted by me after I print the letters using the Epson.  That's
what I needed to know.   Now that I can choose the option to print on a
particular size of my choice, this seems more feasible.  But, I don't
know if it will look good.  Maybe using the smaller handset letters
would be better, after all, esthetically.      

Gayle
Ohio, USA

------------------------------

From: "eli griggs" <eli.griggs@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:07:57 -0400
Subject: [Baren 15464] Re: Fw: Color Mfg/Pigment disclosure
Hi there:

I had not intended to bring up the subject of pigment disclosure again so
soon, unless directly queried, but when email below, from M. Graham & Co. to
me, was  posted to the list, I saw an opportunity to point out what a good
pigment fact sheet should look like, so that printers like Dan, can get a
better idea about what we have been talking about.

If you go to http://www.mgraham.com/html/tecnical.htm  you will find a list
of pigments listed by their common names, chemical names, pigment index
numbers, and Lightfastness.

The nature of the pigment as far as staining or sedimentary, is noted as
well as the bias of the pigment toward transparency or opaqueness.
Notations about fading in tints are also supplied.

Because it is not unheard of for a colourmaker to substitute one pigment for
another, it is important that pigment index numbers be included in any
description of the colour, even when common names are used, ie Raw Sienna.

The pigment index number is the only way to know if you are getting the
pigment you want or if the pigment has been augmented with another.  Blends
are common place and if you are wanting a particular variant of a pigment,
like a Cadmium Orange PO 20, the index number will be the only way to know
if you are getting it, instead of Cadmium Orange PO 20.1.

Lightfastness is always good to know and knowing ahead of time that a
pigment may change, avoids nasty surprises.  This property can be known by
referencing with the p.i.#

Whether or not a pigment stains or lays on top of the surface is something
that watercolour artists often consider, and I am wondering if it is an
important consideration in hanga printmaking?

Does it matter in oil base printmaking?   Anyone?

Having that information already at hand, on the fact sheet, is a good thing,
but the all important pigment index number makes it possible to look it up
with confidence.

The same is also true of transparency and opaqueness.

M. Graham & Co. also list binders on their site, giving enough information
for the artist to take a decision on whether or not to try their product.

The oil paint page is a good example describing a binder that an artist
should be aware of.  Most oil painters use linseed oil based paints and many
object to walnut oil based being on their pallet.  If the maker does not
disclose it, who will?

The acrylics and watercolour pages also give enough good information, about
the content of the binders, lack of fillers, etc. for artist to be informed.

Regards,

Eli

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert" <rcg@robertcanagagallery.com>
To: <baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 3:34 PM
Subject: [Baren 15456] Fw: Color Mfg/Pigment disclosure


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Diana Graham" <colormaker@mgraham.com>
> To: <eli.griggs@worldnet.att.net>
> Cc: <rcg@robertcanagagallery.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 8:55 PM
> Subject: Color Mfg/Pigment disclosure
>
>
> > Dear Mr. Griggs,
> > Recently the commentary regarding the disclosure, or not, of pigments by
> > color manufacturers reached our mail box.
> >
> > We also believe that the artist has the right to informed choice and
list
> > our pigments both on the tube and on the color charts.
> >
> > I would appreciate it if our oil color, acrylic, watercolor and gouache
be
> > included on your endorsed list in the future.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Diana M. Graham
> > M. Graham & Co.
> >
> >
> >
>


------------------------------

From: "eli griggs" <eli.griggs@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:12:47 -0400
Subject: [Baren 15465] Re: Baren Digest V16 #1530 

Hi there:

Gayle, have you considered leaving the poster as it is, a work of art, and
placing the info to a side, perhaps on a pad of tear off leaflets.  You can
make these yourself, with a bit of cheesecloth, and rubber glue.

Cheers,

Eli


------------------------------

From: "bemason" <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:26:52 -0700
Subject: [Baren 15466] color 

Eli,
Thanks for the info. I was impressed with all that technical stuff. I am
sure it matters that some colors are staining and some sedimentary. I have
always known earth colors were more permanent, now I know why.

The best information I have ever seen on color and mixing is a small booklet
from Gamblin Ink that is available free. It is online at
http://www.gamblincolors.com/ look under "color book". They make etching
inks and I like them, I keep hoping they will make litho ink so I can try
it. They are a small company located here in Portland and it is sure an
interesting tour. Robert Gamblin is a scientist of color and has a little
chemical lab where he mixes and tests all day long....so he does know what
he is talking about. Enjoy the info. they make Gamsolv which is supposedly
the safest solven on the market today. It is about $30 a gallon but when I
use  solvent I use this one. Apparently the molecules are too big to go
through skin, the only way to get it into your body is to spary it into the
air and breathe it. I truly has no odor at all, but I am still careful with
it, it is still a solvent.
Best to all,
Barbara



------------------------------

From: Chris Bremmer <cbremmer@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:20:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 15467] Keyblock printed last? 

Hello,

I'm wondering....is the keyblock (outline) usually printed
last with multi-colored prints, to cover up any
mis-registration etc.?

Thanks,
Chris


------------------------------

From: Daniel Dew <ddew@tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:40:26 -0400
Subject: [Baren 15468] Re: Keyblock printed last? 

Yes, and no.  I sometimes will print it first, then the colors, then print
it again.  Depends on the piece and the outcome you are trying to achieve.
Traditionally though, it is printed last.

dan dew

> From: Chris Bremmer <cbremmer@yahoo.com>

> I'm wondering....is the keyblock (outline) usually printed
> last with multi-colored prints, to cover up any
> mis-registration etc.?
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris


------------------------------

From: "bemason" <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:59:46 -0700
Subject: [Baren 15469] Re: Keyblock printed last? 

Chris,
The answer is, it depends. If you are doing hanga you always print the key
block first. This is to ensure that the colors line up, there would be no
real way to do this differently as the other blocks are usually made off the
key block. I know Dave and Graham use xerox copies to work out their colors
and make the blocks from them. Dave always prints the key block first,
Graham doesn't use a key block as his work is all colors butting up against
one another or overlapping purposely.

If you are using oil you can do it either way. I would probably print the
key block last with oil, but it is entirely up to the artist. I usually
print all the blocks one after the other and do not wait for colors to dry.
But I always use transparent ink so I am after a different look. Many
artists let each color dry before they print the next color. The key block
does cover up stuff, but unfortunately  you can still see it under the dark
key block lines, it usually looks darker where it overlaps other colors, so
the best thing is to not overlap unkess you do it on purpose, or make sure
the color you are overlaping goes completely beneath the line of the
keyblock. You can use this to your advantage to get darks in in certain
areas if your keyblock is printed in a color and not black.
So there you go, a tough question to answer because, it depends!
Let us know what you are working on and we can give advise! We are good at
advise! Ha.
Best to you,
Barbara

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Bremmer" <cbremmer@yahoo.com>
To: "baren mailing list" <baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 8:20 AM
Subject: [Baren 15467] Keyblock printed last?


> Hello,
>
> I'm wondering....is the keyblock (outline) usually printed
> last with multi-colored prints, to cover up any
> mis-registration etc.?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris

------------------------------

From: FurryPressII@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:44:11 EDT
Subject: [Baren 15470] Re: Baren Digest Using Epson Printer 

take the text you want to print  make a xerox of it transfer it to your block 
   cut and print  looks better that way than any epsion print 

john of the furry press

ps with plank grain maple with patiance and sharp tools you can cut 10 pt 
type 

------------------------------

From: slinder@mediaone.net
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:49:45 -0500
Subject: [Baren 15471] Re: Baren Digest Using Epson Printer 

- ---trust me! John's carved letters are beautiful!  And they
really are better than anybody's ink-jet printer!
Sharen

FurryPressII@aol.com wrote:
> 
> take the text you want to print  make a xerox of it transfer it to your block
>    cut and print  looks better that way than any epsion print
> 
> john of the furry press
> 
> ps with plank grain maple with patiance and sharp tools you can cut 10 pt
> type

------------------------------

From: brad <brads@iea.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:08:54 -0700
Subject: [Baren 15472] Re: Baren Digest Using Epson Printer 

> ---trust me! John's carved letters are beautiful!  And they
> really are better than anybody's ink-jet printer!

Any samples on the web for us to see?

BS

> FurryPressII@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> take the text you want to print  make a xerox of it transfer it to your block
>> cut and print  looks better that way than any epsion print
>> 
>> john of the furry press
>> 
>> ps with plank grain maple with patiance and sharp tools you can cut 10 pt
>> type


------------------------------

From: "Maria Arango" <maria@mariarango.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:54:52 -0700
Subject: [Baren 15473] marginal woodcut content 

BEEP BEEP BEEP !!!EXTREME POST-CARD WARNING!!! BEEP BEEP BEEP

The obligatory digital recordings from my last road trip, returning from
Durango Colorado, home of the most awesome art festival so far. Most
pictures are au naturel, thanks to stormy weather and wet desert colors
which made everything look polarized (truly eerie); others have been
digitally enhanced in order to approximate authenticated reality.

These will undoubtedly be woodcuts someday in the near future (yeah, right,
like in 2078).
http://www.1000woodcuts.com/Durango2Vegas/index.htm
Enjoy,
Maria

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Maria Arango
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
maria@mariarango.com
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>


------------------------------

From: "Jim Bryant" <jim.bryant@enmu.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:03:56 -0600
Subject: [Baren 15474] Re: Whelan press 

The print quality from the Whelan was good, i had no complaints about the 
prints. And I do think that for one person it would be a fine press. When I
said that the press would be good for someone who doesn't print that often,
i was thinking about the physical labor of that press--it would be
exhausting to print on it 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.

The Whelan has a very small upper drum (maybe 3 or 4" dia.) and a star type
wheel. The Takach comes with a 10" upper drum, and it's chain driven so the
Takach is much less physical labor.

I did stop in the Whelan shop one afternoon and talk to Mr. Whelan. He is
very nice and was willing to allow me to set up shop and use one of his
presses on the floor--so if you're ever in Santa Fe...

jim-

- ----------
>From: Shireen Holman <shireenh@earthlink.net>
>To: baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp
>Subject: [Baren 15462] Re: Whelan press
>Date: Tue, Aug 21, 2001, 7:45 AM
>

> Jim,
> Thanks for your information about the Whelan press. It does sound
> inconvenient to have to walk around the press each time. But I might be
> willing to put up with that for the price and weight of the press. But what
> about the print quality? Would you say the print quality is comparable to
> your Takach press?
> Also, you said the Whelan might be good for someone who doesn't use a press
> that often. What about if you were to use the press often, but you were the
> only one using it most of the time? (it wouldn't get the sort of use a
> university printshop would get). Basically, it would get use but not abuse.
> Sorry about so many questions. Since I would be buying a press for myself,
> any amount I spend would be a huge amount, so I need to know what I'm getting.
> Shireen
>
> At 03:56 PM 8/18/01 -0600, Jim wrote:
>>My limited experience with a Whelan Press (about a week earlier this year)
>>is that they are generally good presses, especially considering the price. I
>>found the most difficult aspect of using them in editioning, because the
>>roller and wheel travel and the bed is stationary; to print you must walk
>>with the wheel the length of the press, then after each print you have to
>>walk around to the other side of the press to pull the print. (The wheel and
>>roller block you from simply lifting the paper off of the
>>block/plate/whatever.)
>>
>>When giving the choice, I bought a Takach.
>>
>>jim-
>
> ***********************************************
> Shireen Holman, Printmaker and Book Artist
> email: shireenh@earthlink.net
> http://www.shireenholman.com
> ***********************************************

------------------------------

From: "April Vollmer" <april@aprilvollmer.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:11:12 -0400
Subject: [Baren 15475] RE: Baren Digest V16 #1529 

Yes, Maria, I should really give up on Shina, that lump was really
discouraging. When I go to so much trouble over a print, it's not fair to
have a hollow in the wood!

However, it's light and cheap...what should I use instead?

Janet Hollender, are you there? did you leave some Japanese paper in the
class at LESP? Sorry for the personal note, but I don't have Janet's e-mail
address! She took my class at the Lower East side Printshop this summer, and
I told her about Baren, so I think she's lurking around here someplace!

April
www.aprilvollmer.com


------------------------------

From: "Maria Arango" <maria@mariarango.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:43:14 -0700
Subject: [Baren 15476] I wood suggest... 

> Yes, Maria, I should really give up on Shina, that lump was really
> discouraging. When I go to so much trouble over a print, it's not fair to
> have a hollow in the wood!
>
> However, it's light and cheap...what should I use instead?

After my vast experience (cough, self directed sarcasm) I have two main
favorites now, solid cherry being the greatest closely followed by soft
maple. I gave up on the plywoods after having tried (but not necessarily in
this order) Shina, Baltic and Siberian birch, el cheapo birch that isn't
Baltic nor Siberian (probably a half-breed like myself), and other assorted,
including the highly touted cherry plywood. Me no like plywoods, they
splinter and have voids, cracks, ridges, glues and nasty lines and other
assorted yuckers. Soft woods are too wimpy for the way I work, I like to mix
toh cutting with lively expressionist chisel hacking and perhaps a touch of
dremel when I'm in the mood for that charming high-pitch whine. Soft woods
just don't hold up to my attacks. After I finished my last birch block I
swore off plywoods for ever more. Oh, I just ordered that maple art board
(which is a plywood) and the fiber-board, so I will report on them soon :-)

I work almost exclusively on solid cherry, leaving room for experimenting
from time to time with whatever wood or surface I can gnaw at. Soft maple is
a great substitute, comes in decent widths (up to 24" joined) and quite
thick, which should be good for Hanga. You also have the choice of getting
thin maple, with the advantage of a lighter block; you would have to cradle
the thin maple (1/4") for Hanga.
Cherry blocks are about 3/4" thick and never wider than 13", lengths up to
24". I join them myself with the power vested in me by the joiners
association of Las Vegas (we do a lot of marriages here). I simply lay them
flat on the most even part of my garage floor, apply wood glue to the joint
and clamp overnight. In the morning, I carefully brush off the cat hairs and
they are ready to go. I have never had a joined block split, not even under
Maria-press-pressure (where I emboss the papers).

Great sources for the above are cabinet makers and "real" lumberyards (not
of the Home Depot variety), but like Bob's Lumber or Hank's Chunks-a-Woods
or some place full of construction workers (a bonus). Actually, some of the
Home Depot/Lowe's sorts are carrying soft maple but only in widths up to
12".
Getting a bunch of wood from an online source is also a possibility, one
that saves money in the end. I buy about 10-20 cherry boards at a time for
around $120-200, considering these are 12" x 24", I think the price is soooo
right. For smallish quantities, try Rembrandt Graphic Arts soft maple
blocks. Graphic Chemical lists cherry blocks, although they are a wee bit
pricey.
Online sources of wood are in my art suppliers page. Don't buy it all up.
http://www.1000woodcuts.com/artsupplies.html

I hope this helps.
Maria

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Maria Arango
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
maria@mariarango.com
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>



------------------------------

From: "Bea Gold" <bnj50@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:51:02 -0700
Subject: [Baren 15477] Re: marginal woodcut content 

Those photos are truly eerie and wonderful!  Wow,  been there many times -
never seen like that! Bea
- -----Original Message-----
From: Maria Arango <maria@mariarango.com>
To: Baren <baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp>
Date: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 3:56 PM
Subject: [Baren 15473] marginal woodcut content

>BEEP BEEP BEEP !!!EXTREME POST-CARD WARNING!!! BEEP BEEP BEEP
>
>The obligatory digital recordings from my last road trip, returning from
>Durango Colorado, home of the most awesome art festival so far. Most
>pictures are au naturel, thanks to stormy weather and wet desert colors
>which made everything look polarized (truly eerie); others have been
>digitally enhanced in order to approximate authenticated reality.
>
>These will undoubtedly be woodcuts someday in the near future (yeah, right,
>like in 2078).
>http://www.1000woodcuts.com/Durango2Vegas/index.htm
>Enjoy,
>Maria
>
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>Maria Arango
>Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
>http://www.1000woodcuts.com
>maria@mariarango.com
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>
>


------------------------------

From: FurryPressII@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:21:19 EDT
Subject: [Baren 15478] Re: I wood suggest... 

Maria I agree with you generally on wood.  Furry has no use for soft wood it 
just does not feel right. I am luckily to have two furniture lumber yards 
here in Chicago. I mostly use cherry and hard maple.  With hard maple and a 
very small "v" gouge you can almost get the detail of a wood engraving in a 
plank grain wood cut, sometimes I even use a multi-liner with the grain of a 
hard maple block.  I have joined boards together but as I can get boards up 
to " 14" inches wide and my press only prints up to 16" wide I have not done 
that lately.
I have never used soft maple I like hard maple for details will try the soft 
to see what it is like.
I used pear a couple of times a wonderful wood but like boxwood for engraving 
very difficult to find and if you find it a bit too expansive.  Albrect Durer 
used pear wood for his "formschnider" wood cuts.

Recently I have discovered (with the help of w. e. n. friends) the use of 
corian countertop for engraving. Hey it is not wood but it works.  It works 
better for details than endgrain maple (nothing works better than boxwood) 
and it is cheaper than endgrain maple blocks and comes in bigger sizes up 
till 30" wide and 12' long to engrave that would take a life time lol.   It 
is a relief print but not a wood cut or engraving will i be drummed out of 
baren & WEN for plastic.   lol, lmao rofl etc.

John of the furry press

ps  will have work in the floral exchange and large print exchange

------------------------------

End of Baren Digest V16 #1531
*****************************