Baren Digest              Friday, 14 December 2001      Volume 17 : Number 1653


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From: "JEANNE N CHASE" <studiojnc@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:51:17 -0500
Subject: [Baren 16475] Year of theHorse Prints 

Would'nt it be nice if the people in the Year of the Horse exchange,
included their e mail address somewhere. I have wanted to thank some of the
printmakers for their creative and wonderful cards. Listing them on the
Baren page would take up too much time and room. A little personal e mail
would fill the bill.
Oh, and they are coming in and I am enjoying the "horses"

Jeanne N


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From: Bobbi Chukran <bobbi.chukran@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:27:09 -0500
Subject: [Baren 16476] Re: Pricing question 

Hi Barbara,


>What do you sell the collages for?>


I don't know about those, either!  LOL  I'm a mess, aren't I?

<< Price the prints at half that price as

>multiples sell for less until you get famous. Or say to yourself, what is
>the absolute least I could sell a piece of work for???>>


OK, that's a good plan.


>This is not very scientifiic, but it is what I did when I started and
>gradually raised the prices. I still sell them pretty reasonably as I would
>rather sell them than stack them up under the bed.>>


Exactly!  I have too much leftover artwork of other kinds.  I'd rather sell
lower to start with and get them outta here.  I just didn't want to
undercut others prices, though....or make them too cheap.

<< Others probably have

>their own way of figuring this out. I really like the collages!>>


Thanks.  I like doing them, but not all the time.

Bobbi C.




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From: Bobbi Chukran <bobbi.chukran@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:36:21 -0500
Subject: [Baren 16477] Re: Inks.... 

Hi Graham,


>I offer that Speedball is less than respectable in quality. When Frank (the
>master printer from Tamarind) was here for the week I got a first hand
>explanation about the stuff and a warning.
>Don't use it....


I won't.  I hate the stuff.  I assumed (wrongly) that it would be
waterproof after it dried, just like my acrylic paints.


>By virtue of being waterbase they can not be waterproof unless the are
>acrylic.


Now I know that.


>The way around this is to go to Hanga. The pigments a re burnished into
>the paper and will not smear.


Hmm....I'll try that, but will probably just go back to using acrylics for
now.  I'd love to use oils, but can't because of allergies.


>Brayer and press will not offer this luxury.


Ok, that's good to know!  Thanks!

Bobbi C.




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From: "bemason" <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:20:38 -0800
Subject: [Baren 16478] woodblock 

Eva,
Glad you asked these questions. There are lots of more experienced people
here than me, but I will attemt to answer.

Rice paste is the best, What ink are you using? If you use pure pigment you
should not have milky colors. To get darker colors, more intense, you print
the same color several times on the paper in the same place, going through
all your prints with one printing, then starting over and going through all
of them again.

To help the plywood block, paint it with a solution of 1/2 thinner and 1/2
marine varnish before you carve. Sand it smooth after it dries with 600
sandpaper. Then give it another coat of this before you print and let it
dry. You can use a soft rag for this, be sure to do this in an area of good
ventilation and lay the rag flat to dry or store in a metal can with a metal
lid to avoid spontaneous combustion. The brand of varnish I use is McCloskys
and I get it at Home Depot.

Use sumi ink to get a dark black and print it several times on the same area
as above to get it darker. When you do large areas it is hard to keep it
damp, this just takes experience.

For ink that rolls out you can use speedball ink (limited color pallet and
low pigment load) but it tends to clog up and you need to clean the block
occasionally as it dries fast. Ask Dan Dew, he uses it and may have tips. Or
Akua Kolor found at http://www.waterbasedinks.com you need to add the tack
thickener to get it to roll out well. This is a honey based ink and works
well, lots of colors to chose from. It stays damp for hours so you have lots
of time to work.So let us know how it turns out and ask more questions if
you need to.

The encyclopedia has more information, so go there and read it......it is
huge so a bit overwhelming, but all the answers are there someplace. Use the
google search engine at the bottom of the page to find things. Start here
http://www.barenforum.org/encyclopedia/outline.html

Best to you,
Barbara



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From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:39:33 -0600
Subject: [Baren 16479] Re: 12/13/2001 10:39:33 AM 

Welcome to Eva and all the other new bareners...

Eva writes:
"...It seems to me that the rice paste changes the colours a bit, it is not
really translucent and colours become a bit "milky". What did I wrong? Also
I can't get a real deep black in this way. I tried it by using a Chinese
ink
, which is very black, but the print is not.How can I get intensive, deep
colours?"

Off the top, I am thinking you probably used way too much rice-paste. All
that is needed
is a small dab...I use a chopstick to pickup a little glob of paste (not
too thick now!, more like syrupy)and drop it directly on my block. If you
are going to print a large area then you need a few dabs all over. Then I
use a small brush to pick up splash of color pigment and drop that on the
block. Then I use my japanese style mixing brushes to brush everything
around and smooth out the color. Too much water or paste is not good for
hanga..
dab, glob, drop, splash.....small words to print by!

For deep blacks, (assuming you are already using good products an you are
not diluting the pigments tooo much..)  there is not much you can do but to
double print the image...sometimes I triple print my blocks. Assuming your
mixing brush is nicely saturated and you have done some proofs to warm up
everything...then after the first impression lift 1/2 of the print up,
apply more black, brush, and print that area again. Then lift the other
half of the paper up, apply more black and print that part again, repeat
until you have the black you want. If your registration method is good or
not critical, then you can lift the whole paper off the block, apply more
black and print again....is very time consuming...but if you want deep
blacks!

For hanga, I use sumi ink bought at the local art supply store, but at the
Baren Mall we have a deep black product that's suppose to be the best! I
think some of the bareners have tried it. For non-hanga, or when I mix
things up a bit, Graphic Chemical has some very good blacks that are
water-soluble.

hope that helps a bit...Julio Rodriguez (Skokie, Illinois)
There is a



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From: "Bill H Ritchie Jr" <ritchie@seanet.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:49:57 -0800
Subject: [Baren 16480] Re: Pricing question 

The selling, marketing, pricing questions--these interest me greatly. Yet in
my opinion it's still a matter for art educationists--those who are still
alive after their 40+ years in the academies--to re-write their script. Many
in this list have expressed a consensus about the errors and omissions.

Many have affirmed, too, that making art is not the same as making money.
I'm working on a new "curriculum" you might call it. In this curriculum
design, I put "risk" into the discussion of pricing. The neat thing about
risk is that it's a shared emotion for both the artist who does "art for
art's sake" and the potential collector of art. Both are taking risks.

When I was a little boy, my art class was just before my grammar class.
After art class one day, when we'd been playing around with abstract designs
and interpreting them, I went to grammar class and we were told about uses
of commas, semicolons, etc. Then the teacher gave us an assignment to use
each symbol in sentences.

When I handed mine in I got in trouble. My use of the asterisk was why. I
wrote:

"I would not make abstract art because I have only one *."

But, I digress. The best book to read about risk and how it figures in
commerce is "Against the Gods: The history of risk". The wise old economist
who wrote it taught me the concept of "utility value" as it was deeply
studied several hundred years ago by an Italian scholar.

When we "risk our ass" (this comes from an old saying which means when we
take a chance with our donkey) we do so in proportion with what we have to
lose. A person with $100 will take bigger risks on small bets--like buying
$1 lotto ticket--than a person with $1. The utility value of a lotto ticket
for a person with $100 in his or her pocket or purse is pretty good--it
falls into the nothing ventured, nothing gained since 1% isn't much to lose.
Not so for the person with $1.

If you're a practicing artist, chances are you're fairly comfortable with
things and you can afford, for now, to continue regardless of no sales
today, or even tomorrow. You can handle it. The older you are, the more
you've seen times like these, the more confident you are, it would seem.

If you're a potential art buyer, again, you're probably fairly comfortable
or you wouldn't even glance at an artwork or copy or anything like it that
you could not eat or keep warm and dry under. So, you may take a risk in
proportion to it's "utility value." If, on the other hand, you're at a stage
ecnomically when you can risk $100 on an image to stare at (because you've
got the time to stare and do nothing), and $100 is a small percentage of the
money you think you have (or credit line), you'll join with the artist and
share the risk he or she has taken to make the art thing.

I may have botched the description of "utility value" in my effort to be
cute and short, so if you want to figure this into your deliberations
regading pricing artworks and making money making art, read Bernstein, Peter
L.. "Against the God's:  The Remarkable Story of Risk." I did.

It's the kind of book art education persons need to read and somehow shape
into interesting parts of a new art education.

Most of what we think is shaped by what happened in the past. If we continue
to look at past performance and exclude some thinking about the present
changes and the future that is bound to come upon us, we will--as
artists--be as extinct as many other species among the living things on this
planet.

We have only one *, but the sad part is that unless we art educator
wannabees stop dwelling on the past and erroneous concepts like "artmaking =
moneymaking", we are also risking our children's and our grandchildren's
future.

Bill H. Ritchie, Jr
500 Aloha #105
Seattle WA 98109
(206) 285-0658
mailto:ritchie@seanet.com
Web sites:
Professional: www.seanet.com/~ritchie
Virtual Gallery and E-Store: www.myartpatron.com
First Game Portal: www.artsport.com


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From: "Bill H Ritchie Jr" <ritchie@seanet.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:49:59 -0800
Subject: [Baren 16481] Re: art vs other stuff 

Art sales on the Web interest me. I've invested a lot in Web sites--both in
money and in time. I think it's a good investment over the long term,
because you "experience" this new technology. It's analagous to an observant
artist who happened to notice what went on in a printing shop on her way to
the studio each day.

It was interesting at first just because of the textures, shapes and
business that met her eyes. The language being spoken, the money changing
hands, the different professions that all convened there--this artist had
their eyes and mind wide open.

Then, as time passed, the printing shop changed. Old presses went out,
replaced by new ones. Still, the printing business went on. It occurred to
the artist that she, too, could make prints by hand, and since the old
presses were cheap, she got one and tried her hand at it.

The rest is history (or, I should say, Her Story). It's my story, too, but
it's not a printing shop I see every day. I see instead the Web and the
information that's been flying all over it for the past ten years.

Experience the Web, but as a long term investment of your time and money,
not short term gains. That's what I think artists should do to protect their
positions in the community that is, like it or not, being changed by new
technology.

Folks, I've got an idea that printmakers should not be trying to sell their
art online as much as the information they have about art--or, they should
"give" information away (not hard for artists, generous souls that most of
them are) and consider it a way of lighting other people's candles without
lessening your own candle's brightness.

What is needed is a centralized system where people can get information
about "real artists and real art" (and how to tell the difference between
real and fakes). In the industry of computer software, this "centralized
system" is sometimes called BIOS (Basic Input/Output System).

Artists often fulminate at the word centralized, and for good reason. It
smacks of Fascism, but there's no stopping the process--it's always with us,
just like the handwritten signature on the artwork we sign that makes claims
to all who see it, "I did this."

Bill H. Ritchie, Jr
500 Aloha #105
Seattle WA 98109
(206) 285-0658
mailto:ritchie@seanet.com
Web sites:
Professional: www.seanet.com/~ritchie
Virtual Gallery and E-Store: www.myartpatron.com
First Game Portal: www.artsport.com


------------------------------

From: Bobbi Chukran <bobbi.chukran@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:12:21 -0500
Subject: [Baren 16482] Re: Pricing question 

Bill wrote:

>If you're a potential art buyer, again, you're probably fairly comfortable
>or you wouldn't even glance at an artwork or copy or anything like it that
>you could not eat or keep warm and dry under.>>


This brings up another question I've been wondering about. Do most print
buyers buy them because they think they'll be a good investment or because
they want something to hang on the wall and stare at--something to decorate
their home?

I think it would make a difference in the way they were marketed...

Bobbi C.




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From: Graham <gscholes@shaw.ca>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:24:01 -0800
Subject: [Baren 16483] Re: woodblock


First off let me welcome Miriam Zegrer on board....


>Barbara wrote.....
>Glad you asked these questions. There are lots of more experienced people
>here than me, but I will attemt to answer.


I should clarify a few things that Barbara has not touched on or 
remembered from
Boot Camp.


>To help the plywood block, paint it with a solution of 1/2 thinner and 1/2
>marine varnish before you carve. Sand it smooth after it dries with 600
>sandpaper.


Make sure you sand the plywood block with 220 (depending on the 
condition and smoothness) then 400 then 600 grit for sure before 
applying 50/50 varnish. Use a Marine Varnish. This is very important
Your sandpaper should be about a 1/4 sheet (they come 8.5 x 11" so 
cut it in 4) warped around a block
that has a piece (towel) of cloth material covering the of wood 
block.This will insure that the edges of the sandpaper and block do 
not dig into or mar the plate surface. A electric palm sander is 
perfect as it has a moderately firm foam pad.


>Then give it another coat of this before you print and let it
>dry.


This coat is applied after the carving is done. Let it dry hard.
You do not want to use a rag that has a lot of lint... cotton is good
With your sanding block and 600 grit you lightly wet sand the relief 
surfaces of the plate before printing.


>Use sumi ink to get a dark black and print it several times on the same area
>as above to get it darker.


You should not have to print sumi ink twice. Be sure to put on a good 
smooth coat.
You can and might have to print coloured pigments twice for strength 
and intensity.
What inking brushes do you use?


>When you do large areas it is hard to keep it
>damp, this just takes experience.


When I do a large piece... the last one was
http://members.home.net/gscholes/green_island
Your damp paper has to be close at hand and the moment you ink the plate, your
paper has to be positioned quickly on the plate. Pick a day that is 
cool and damp and
you won't have as much trouble as on a hot summers day.  I prime my 
plate and inking
brushes by using news print.  Does a good job and allow for some worthwhile
practice time.


>For ink that rolls out you can use speedball ink (limited color pallet and
>low pigment load) but it tends to clog up and you need to clean the block
>occasionally as it dries fast.


The above is sufficient reason to not use Speedball ink.  It is only good as a
lowest grade student material. Professional define it as less than acceptable.

http://www.barenforum.org is great source.

You can find some useful tips on my page.
http://members.home.net/gscholes/
go the Workshops and from there you can access
info about Hanga printmaking etc.


Graham/Sidney BC
An Island in the Pacific
Home of the Boot Camp


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From: "bemason" <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:29:26 -0800
Subject: [Baren 16484] Pricing question 

Bobbie, I think you have both. I make a lot of prints and also collect them,
no way could I display them all and I want them for themselves, not to go
with my house.....so there are a lot of collectors who put prints in albums
and drawers.
Most of the buyers I see in our gallery here in Portland are looking for
stuff for their homes, some must have floor to ceiling artwork.
Barbara


> This brings up another question I've been wondering about. Do most print
> buyers buy them because they think they'll be a good investment or because
> they want something to hang on the wall and stare at--something to

decorate

> their home?
>
> I think it would make a difference in the way they were marketed...
>
> Bobbi C.
>




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From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon@mlyon.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:50:44 -0600
Subject: [Baren 16485] Re: Baren Digest V17 #1652 
Dear Carol,

I just visited your web site!  Beautiful work !  As I have a relatively 
slow internet connection over the phone line, I happened to notice that it 
took an inordinately long time to display each image!  So I investigated a 
bit.

If you don't mind, I am offering a couple of suggestions which would 
(greatly!) increase the performance of your web site:

1) Save images as JPEG format files.  The images I viewed were in the GIF 
format -- this is still a good format today for animations and for images 
which have transparent areas where the text or image 'underneath' is 
supposed to show through, but GIF files aren't compressed, so...  For all 
your images, use JPEG format and a high compression / low quality setting 
- -- different editors use different numbers, but on a scale of 0 to 12, with 
12 being the highest quality image and largest file, I generally find that 
a setting of 3 gives excellent quality and reasonably small file.

2) Be sure the image is saved the same 'size' as displayed.  Often on your 
site, the image being loaded is displayed much smaller than it's 'natural' 
size -- for example, your opening image is of a framed painting, 
Carol01E5.gif.  It is displayed on your web page 525 x 392 pixels in 
size.  The actual size of the file is 355,332 bytes which is pretty 
huge.  One reason it's so huge is that it's a GIF file (if it were a JPEG 
of the same image, it would only be about 74,120 bytes and would take 1/5th 
the amount of time to download!).  The other reason is that the saved file 
is 1168 x 876 pixels.

On this file, by saving the file as Carol01e5.JPG (instead of 
Carol01e5.GIF) and saving it at its display size of 525 x 394 pixels 
(keeping the same proportions), the file downloaded would be only  22,841 
bytes long (instead of 355,332 bytes long) and would load more than 15 
times faster with VIRTUALLY NO difference in the image displayed at all 
!!!  I'm attaching the shortened file for your evaluation.

I think visitors would be able to see a lot more of your site in a lot less 
time if you followed this strategy throughout your site.

Happy holidays and best wishes !

Mike



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End of Baren Digest V17 #1653
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