Baren Digest Sunday, 17 February 2002 Volume 18 : Number 1724 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Lyon Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:15:44 -0600 Subject: [Baren 17008] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1722 At 12:46 PM 02/16/2002 +0900, Charles Morgan wrote: >Has anyone else used MDF? I >thought about sealing it after carving but before printing with thinned >varathane or similar stuff. Would this cause any problems? Hi, Charles, and welcome to BAREN !! MDF kinda swells up and melts after it's been wet a while. Sealing with shellac is quicker and easier than urethanes. Should work fine -- MDF can be pretty hard on wood tools, too - -- maybe it's the binder? Experiment with other materials, too. Some people are having good results with Corian. Or, , you could try some 'wood', too -- basswood is a hardwood which is very easy to carve and works well. Cherry is more resistant to the tool but cuts very cleanly with crisp edges and has the possibility of reproducing very fine lines which hold up for hundreds of prints. Or birch plywood. Or basswood plywood. Or fir plywood which has pronounced 'woody' grain. Or luan plywood (mahogany) which has pronounced straight grain. Keep experimenting with different papers and carving surfaces and you will soon be another expert on Baren! Mike ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:19:27 -0600 Subject: [Baren 17009] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1722 At 12:46 PM 02/16/2002 +0900, you wrote: >Im going to toss this question out.....I was planning on going the lino route >for the next exchange, but after drooling over all the wonderful images of >past exchanges, Im thinking about using wood. This is my first exchange...am >I being foolhardy? >Any advice on what type of wood to use? >Thanks, >Ld Lawrence You are not being foolhardy to use wood on your first exchange. Be sure your tools are designed for wood & don't struggle with lino-cut tools on wood -- you'll only be frustrated. Birch plywood is a good one to start with. It's somewhat resistive to the knife, but can show a nice grain in the print and hold a clear line. Then experiment so you have your own catalog of materials and characteristics and a feel for the medium. Mike ------------------------------ From: b.patera@att.net Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 16:58:11 +0000 Subject: [Baren 17010] Re: message from Charles Morgan: New Person Philip, Thanks for the info.... will have to find a lumberyard. In this area most of them seem to have gone out of business ..... and Loew's is very limiting... or maybe I just didn't know what to ask for. Barbara P. > Barbara P., > MDF is a product that most lumber yards carry. > I use it in the half inch thickness. > Neat stuff, and it's fairly cheap for a 4by8' sheet. > Best of luck, > Philip > Hammond, OR > USA > ------------------------------ From: b.patera@att.net Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 17:18:06 +0000 Subject: [Baren 17011] Re: More Sales, horsies Thanks Julio, It sure is fun to look at all the horses. I've savored each card as it has come in....but it really is impressive to see them all together. Regards, Barbara P. ------------------------------ From: b.patera@att.net Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 17:48:04 +0000 Subject: [Baren 17012] Re: wood question Graham, Wish I'd had your information on wood before I started cutting my large print.... a near, if not total disaster. Everything you said about Birch plywood proved to be too true... splintering, dulling of tools, furry edges. However, you failed to mention how uneven the hardness is (anywhere from pithy to rock) and that fine lines seem to crumble after a moderate amount of printing. Anyway, thanks! I'm printing out your e-mail and will use the information when selecting wood for new blocks. No longer will I be deceived by a good looking hunk... I'll look closer at it's inner qualities. Barbara P ------------------------------ From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:57:16 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17013] Re: wood question Barbara, I think good looking hunks are still going to turn your head....maybe a little. This is too funny, I just love it. The all shina plywood is really good, I have used it in the past, got some from Graham and also from McClains, http://www.imcclains.com Just make sure it is "all shina" as the other stuff has some sort of red mahagony or luan wood in the center that dulls the tools and is really nasty to carve with just a thin layer of shina on the top. I got this before I knew the difference and it was really awful to use. Shina works very well for hanga and I have used it very successfully on the press, even though some people feel it compresses too much, I guess it is all in the amount of pressure you feel you need for a good print. Damp paper is the key to pulling that ink off the wood, no matter which ink you use. And I did seal my wood with 1/2 spar varnish and 1/2 thinner. Just rubbed it in with a cloth and let it dry for a couple of hours. Then sanded it a tiny bit with 600 wet sand paper. Just like carving on butter. Well, maybe a little more work than that. also re-applied the varnish stuff after carving. I know lots of people don't bother, but I think it helps keep the thin lines stronger. As if I can carve thin lines. Maybe in my next life. Barbara M > No longer will I be deceived by a good looking hunk... > I'll look closer at it's inner qualities. > > Barbara P > ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:47:16 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17014] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1722 Excuse me Mike but Basswood is not a hard wood. It is a tight grained softwood that is just what Hanga printmakers enjoy. Check my post from yesterday... Graham/Sidney BC An Island in the Pacific Home of the Boot Camp http://woodblock.info >Hi, Charles, and welcome to BAREN !! MDF kinda swells up and melts after it's been wet a while. Sealing with shellac is quicker and easier than urethanes. Should work fine -- MDF can be pretty hard on wood tools, too -- maybe it's the binder? Experiment with other materials, too. Some people are having good results with Corian. Or, , you could try some 'wood', too -- basswood is a hardwood which is very easy to carve and works well. Cherry is more resistant to the tool but cuts very cleanly with crisp edges and has the possibility of reproducing very fine lines which hold up for hundreds of prints. Or birch plywood. Or basswood plywood. Or fir plywood which has pronounced 'woody' grain. Or luan plywood (mahogany) which has pronounced straight grain. Keep experimenting with different papers and carving surfaces and you will soon be another expert on Baren! > >Mike ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:34:26 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17015] Re: wood question All good advice from a former two timer BootCamper.... The varnishing after carving is something I advise but at boot camp there never seems enough time to wait for the extra 5 or 6 hours of drying time before printing. When folks get to the point in time of "next we print" there is just no holding them back, so the heck with the final varnish coat, eh. Hey Barbara, thanks for elaborating on the solid aspect of "all shina" Just for clarification. All of the plies are solid, no air spaces, and made of basswood. It is akin to the way they make Marine plywood. Solid. It is the solid aspect that makes this wood suitable for moderate pressure press use. How many impression have you taken from a Shina plate Barbara? >As if I can carve thin lines. Maybe in my next life. Here is a tip.... Cut a key line plate. (*<: >Barbara, >I think good looking hunks are still going to turn your head....maybe a >little. This is too funny, I just love it. > >The all shina plywood is really good, I have used it in the past, got some >from Graham and also from McClains, http://www.imcclains.com Just make sure >it is "all shina" as the other stuff has some sort of red mahagony or luan >wood in the center that dulls the tools and is really nasty to carve with >just a thin layer of shina on the top. I got this before I knew the >difference and it was really awful to use. > >Shina works very well for hanga and I have used it very successfully on the >press, even though some people feel it compresses too much, I guess it is >all in the amount of pressure you feel you need for a good print. Damp paper >is the key to pulling that ink off the wood, no matter which ink you use. >And I did seal my wood with 1/2 spar varnish and 1/2 thinner. Just rubbed it >in with a cloth and let it dry for a couple of hours. Then sanded it a tiny >bit with 600 wet sand paper. Just like carving on butter. Well, maybe a >little more work than that. also re-applied the varnish stuff after carving. >I know lots of people don't bother, but I think it helps keep the thin lines >stronger. >Barbara M > ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:38:34 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17016] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1722 Excuse me Mike.... Just found this post and would not recommend Birch for a first time user. Check my post from yesterday. Graham >You are not being foolhardy to use wood on your first exchange. Be sure your tools are designed for wood & don't struggle with lino-cut tools on wood -- you'll only be frustrated. Birch plywood is a good one to start with. It's somewhat resistive to the knife, but can show a nice grain in the print and hold a clear line. Then experiment so you have your own catalog of materials and characteristics and a feel for the medium. > >Mike ------------------------------ From: jimandkatemundie@juno.com Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:47:37 -0500 Subject: [Baren 17017] pine Graham said: > Fir, Pine and Cedar are sticky. That is to say as you cut across the > grain they drag or seem sticky preventing the knife from cutting > smoothly. Pine and cedar results in furry edges when cutting cross > grain. Well actually, Graham, I use clear pine constantly and have never once experienced a 'furry edge' when cutting across the grain. Perhaps you were using a pine that had been improperly seasoned, or a plank which had a too prominent grain. I'm very careful to select even grained planks with few knots and low pitch content. I then allow the boards to 'cure' in my studio for several months before I cut into them. With some careful planning, pine is an absolute pleasure to cut, and it's inexpensive as well. James Mundie, Philadelphia U.S.A. http://missioncreep.com/mundie/index.htm ------------------------------ From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 13:55:37 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17018] Re: wood question > How many impression have you taken from a Shina plate Barbara? 50 with a press and at least that many without. With a press I am using oil based inks so can get more color on one pass through the press than with hanga, which needs an impression for each color, someitmes more than one for the same color. Hanga is done with a baren so less pressure all at once, I would say you could get hundreds of impressions with a baren and shina. One block I did had three plates and 6 colors and at least 9 or 10 impressions, maybe more. Makes me tired to think about it. Barbara ------------------------------ From: Vishnovus@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 22:07:50 EST Subject: [Baren 17019] cuttlefish bones All that talk of smudgy spots on the print margins last week got me to thinking.... A trick my highschool art teacher taught me a gajillion years ago. You can rub a good deal of smudging and spots from paper margins with cuttlefish bone. Its the oblong shaped thing that hangs in parakeet cages...costs about a dollar at a pet store. .....just rub gently in a circular motion on the paper. Much better than ANY eraser. Next time your in a pet store pick one up, and keep it on hand. I feel like Im offering tips from Heloise...or "good things" from Martha. Hey....whatever works! Ld ------------------------------ From: Bobbi Chukran Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 21:15:23 -0500 Subject: [Baren 17020] Re: cuttlefish bones Ld wrote: >Next time your in a pet store pick one up, and keep it on hand. >I feel like Im offering tips from Heloise...or "good things" from Martha.> I wonder *why* that works? Sounds pretty bee-zaar to me....... Bobbi C. ------------------------------ From: "Philip Smith" Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 19:44:09 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17021] Re: MDF Charles,...'Not doing anything special to the MDF. But I'm an oily person and it seems to hold up well on almost any number I want to print. Graham mentioned that it does your tools in, but I find it only requires honing my knives about twice when doing a cut. You might coat the surface with linseed oil before carving as Maria pointed out. Good luck, Philip Hammond, OR USA ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 20:32:27 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17022] Re: MDF >Graham mentioned that it does your tools in, but I find it only requires >honing my knives about twice when doing a cut. > Hi Philip, Could you clarify "when doing a cut". If you are talking about a plate the size and intricacy of the plate has a very big bearing on how often honing is required. It would be interesting to know so the members can assess and compare their experience of maintaining an edge on chisels. Thanks, Graham/Sidney BC An Island in the Pacific Home of the Boot Camp ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 20:35:44 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17023] Re: cuttlefish bones >A trick my highschool art teacher taught me a gajillion years ago. Love Dad, Is that greater of lesser than a gaZillion years? Cuttlefish bone hmmmmmm sounds grrriiittyyy and grrreeaattt.... Graham >You can rub a good deal of smudging and spots from paper margins with >cuttlefish bone. >Its the oblong shaped thing that hangs in parakeet cages...costs about a >dollar at a pet store. .....just rub gently in a circular motion on the >paper. Much better than ANY eraser. >Next time your in a pet store pick one up, and keep it on hand. >I feel like Im offering tips from Heloise...or "good things" from Martha. >Hey....whatever works! >Ld ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 22:36:38 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17024] Re: pine James wrote..... >Well actually, Graham, I use clear pine constantly and have never once >experienced a 'furry edge' when cutting across the grain. Perhaps you >were using a pine that had been improperly seasoned, or a plank which had >a too prominent grain. It is difficult to get good pine here on the coast. This may be the reason I was unsatisfied with its performance. It seems most of the pine is lodge pole or ponderosa pine. This could be the cause. Is yours white pine? It certainly is economical.... Regards Graham ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V18 #1724 *****************************