Baren Digest Wednesday, 20 February 2002 Volume 18 : Number 1728 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Lyon Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 07:30:09 -0600 Subject: [Baren 17059] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1727 At 10:00 PM 2/19/2002 +0900, Graham Scholes wrote: >Jack wrote..... > > It doesn't work that we all get to make up our > >own classification systems, unless we keep it to ourselves, to avoid > >confusion. > >You have homed in on the matter beautifully. >My concern with this discussion of Mike stating that Basswood was >a hard wood, would cause confusion in the minds of some members, I appreciate your concern, Graham, but you have misquoted me. My original post was, "...basswood is a hardwood which is very easy to carve and works well..." I have never stated that Basswood was a hard wood. Mike Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon@mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: "Rudolf Stalder" Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:46:08 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17060] Carving away charset="iso-8859-1" "How do you know what to carve away"? Good question Dan "Empty" on the plate looks less "empty" than on the print. Carving too much may lead to in-correctable damage. Rudolf ------------------------------ From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 06:11:58 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17061] Carving away Well, this is true, so then it leads to carving a second block to "fix" the first one, and mye a third one to "fix" the second one..... Barbara > "How do you know what to carve away"? > Good question Dan > "Empty" on the plate looks less "empty" than on the print. > Carving too much may lead to in-correctable damage. > > Rudolf ------------------------------ From: "Rudolf Stalder" Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:45:52 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17062] wood A suitable wood to start carving is poplar. It is inexpensive and easy available. Its properties vary a lot even within in a single block, thus allowing in a short time to gain much insight in the most important aspects of carving and interaction of wood, tool, ink and paper and the associated difficulties and complications, many mentioned in the previous postings so far. Having some basic experience and knowing what you want to achieve, it is then rather easy to identify the wood best fitting your needs. My two cents Rudolf ------------------------------ From: Vishnovus@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:40:23 EST Subject: [Baren 17063] Re: Cuttlefish bones Jan, I always wondered where those cuttle fish came from. Carving on them and making little cuttleprints might be fun. I enjoy the feeling of just pushing my nail into the soft "chaulky" stuff. Funny. They really do a good job of erasing smudges, just make sure the ink has dried thouroughly. Ld ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:52:46 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17064] Re: Never again Graham, Did you miss 02/02/2002? At 2:02 am? Wanda Graham wrote: > > or to be more precise, 20:02, 20/02, 2002. > The last occasion that time read in such a symmetrical pattern was long > before the days of the digital watch and the 24-hour clock. It was at > 10.01am on January 10, 1001. And because the clock only goes up to 23.59, > it is something that will never happen again. ------------------------------ From: Charles Morgan Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:54:04 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17065] more MDF I had carved and made preliminary prints with a block of MDF. In this case, the "carving" was really more like engraving, being branches or vines and leaves. I had an old can of clear Varathane sitting on the shelf, so I thinned it 50/50 with paint thinner (the new "odorless" stuff). I then used an old rag to apply it to the surface of the block. The Varathane went on smoothly and dried overnight. It penetrated the surface readily and seems to have sealed it just fine. It did not puddle in the engraved lines, and none of them seem to have been filled. It seems to me that sealing the block in this way would make it pretty well impervious to most anything. Wilson Harvey recently wrote that he is using MDF for woodcuts. Wilson, I have noticed that the MDF I have has a VERY FINE grain on the surface ... sort of like very fine scratches, all parallel to each other. I suppose it has to do with the manufacturing process. I could not see this grain until I tried sanding the block. The MDF stuff is so hard, it seems it would take quite a while to sand it out, and then I was concerned that it would just reappear as I sanded. When I printed, the grain mostly disappeared from the print after the first couple of prints were pulled, but it did tend to linger in the middle of the print. I was printing by hand, though I did also try an old book binding press. Does the MDF you are using have the same surface texture I have noted in mine? Have you tried to sand the grain out? Does it affect the print image? Thanks in advance for your comments ... Charles ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:00:20 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17066] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1727 The most important factor is that everybody now knows that Basswood is a SOFT WOOD. Around the time we got into the subject there were some posts that said how birch and maple were nice to carve, and them being hard wood. I could see that confusion could reign supreme. I would not call it a misquote, so much as being confused. Had you written, "basswood is in the hardwood category, but is soft and easy to carve", all would have been tickity boo. I remember when writing my book how careful I had to be with the wording to insure that what was written ... is what was meant. My editor and I would have lengthy discussion over one word .... Have a good day. Graham http://www.woodblock.info/book/index.html > 10:00 PM 2/19/2002 +0900, Graham Scholes wrote: >>Jack wrote..... >>> It doesn't work that we all get to make up our >>>own classification systems, unless we keep it to ourselves, to avoid >>>confusion. >> >>You have homed in on the matter beautifully. >>My concern with this discussion of Mike stating that Basswood was >>a hard wood, would cause confusion in the minds of some members, > >I appreciate your concern, Graham, but you have misquoted me. My original post was, "...basswood is a hardwood which is very easy to carve and works well..." I have never stated that Basswood was a hard wood. > >Mike >Mike Lyon >mailto:mikelyon@mlyon.com >http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: Kris Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:07:11 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Baren 17067] Re: Never again.... Not the best time to come out of lurking, but I've been hearing this a lot over the past couple of days and need to through in a caveat. This isn't the last case of time/date symmetry we can look forward too. The next one occurs in 110 years or so, at 9:12pm on December 21, 2112 (21:12, 21/12, 2112). There are several others along this same vein and more if you play around with how you write the times and dates. I guess since I'm coming out of the shadows I might as well introduce myself. I'm fairly new to the woodcut world, having gotten interested in it years ago when I inherited a print by Kunisada from the late 19th century. I just started carving in the past couple of years and have thus far constrained myself to monotypes, being heavily influenced by the woodblocks of Escher and Claire Leighton. I can't call myself an artist by any stretch of the imagination, however. I do this purely for personal enjoyment, it's not what put's beer in my mug as it were. By way of daily survival, I'm a PhD student in Planetary Science, specializing in the surface properties of Mars. I'm currently involved in a series of Earth-based radar observations in support of the next generation of lander/rover based Mars missions. I'd like to use my woodcuts to bridge the art/science chasm and portray the inate beauty of science to those put off by its more daunting properties. Ok, I've taken up enough of your bits. Just a final thank you to all who are so willing to share what they've learned over the years with those of us just starting to get ink under our nails. Kris On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Graham wrote: > Not really Baren stuff, but I promise it can NEVER be mentioned again. > > > At 8.02pm on February 20 this year it will be a historic moment in time. > It will not be marked by the ringing of bells, the banging of drums, or > spectacular fireworks displays but at that precise time, on that specific > date, something will happen which has not occurred for 1,001 years and > will never happen again. > As the clock ticks over from 8.01pm to 8.02pm on Wednesday, February 20, > time will, for sixty seconds only, read in perfect symmetry 2002, 2002,2002, > > or to be more precise, 20:02, 20/02, 2002. > The last occasion that time read in such a symmetrical pattern was long > before the days of the digital watch and the 24-hour clock. It was at > 10.01am on January 10, 1001. And because the clock only goes up to 23.59, > it is something that will never happen again. > > > Graham > > ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:08:18 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17068] Re: Never again >Graham, > >Did you miss 02/02/2002? At 2:02 am? > >Wanda Nope, it does not read the same way. Could that read in perfect symmetry 2002, 2002,2002, or to be more precise, 20:02, 20/02, 2002. Graham ------------------------------ From: "Rudolf Stalder" Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:09:53 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17069] sharp tools Jack writes : " If you can't maintain sharp tools, all woods will seem to be working against you. " But also: A "super sharp" knife will completely dominate the wood. In many situation it is nice if the wood "guides" or "directs" to some extent knife or chisel, it is one these interactions which makes wood-cutting so unique. Clearly this is not meant to recommend the use of tools which do not cut. So no challenge of your view Jack. My third posting to-day Rudolf ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:12:33 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17070] Never again.... Someone just sent this to me..... Graham > This isn't the last case of time/date symmetry we can look forward >too. The next one occurs in 110 years or so, at 9:12pm on December 21, >2112 (21:12, 21/12, 2112). There are several others along this same vein >and more if you play around with how you write the times and dates. >> >>At 8.02pm on February 20 this year it will be a historic moment in time. >>It will not be marked by the ringing of bells, the banging of drums, or >>spectacular fireworks displays but at that precise time, on that specific >>date, something will happen which has not occurred for 1,001 years and >>will never happen again. >>As the clock ticks over from 8.01pm to 8.02pm on Wednesday, February 20, >>time will, for sixty seconds only, read in perfect symmetry 2002, 2002,2002, >> >>or to be more precise, 20:02, 20/02, 2002. >>The last occasion that time read in such a symmetrical pattern was long >>before the days of the digital watch and the 24-hour clock. It was at >>10.01am on January 10, 1001. And because the clock only goes up to 23.59, >>it is something that will never happen again. >> ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:13:51 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17071] Re: Never again.... Good stuff.... I have sent yours back to the person that forwarded it to me. Graham > > Not the best time to come out of lurking, but I've been hearing >this a lot over the past couple of days and need to through in a >caveat. This isn't the last case of time/date symmetry we can look forward >too. The next one occurs in 110 years or so, at 9:12pm on December 21, >2112 (21:12, 21/12, 2112). There are several others along this same vein >and more if you play around with how you write the times and dates. ------------------------------ From: Daniel Dew Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:30:47 -0500 Subject: [Baren 17072] Re: more MDF O.K. time for me to chime in with my 2 cents worth. MDF comes in a wide variety of densities and grades and differs sometimes from board to board and between manufacturers. Many of my clients (in my "real" job) are manufacturers of cabinets, furniture, etc., and I attend usually three trade shows a year where the MDF folks come to hawk their wares. I have found that the MDF readily available at most Home Depots and Lowes is not of the density or consistency that I like ( I like detail, so...). I have picked up some MDF from trade shows and the differences are great. >From what I understand the MDF comes in three grades: Shop Grade Utility Grade Premium Grade Now, they also come in three different densities within the grades: High, medium and low density. I have a supplier who is sending me some of his high density, premium grade MDF to play with. I have tried the low density shop grade from Home Depot and was totally disappointed. It soon fell apart and refused to hold lines, then after printing and proofing a few times, it starting refusing to be cut again, coming up in large chucks (this after sealing with a primer!) I then experimented with the medium shop grade, which can be seen in the #11 exchange. It was O.K., held the line well and lasted for a whole print run, including a four color reduction run! So, I can't wait to try the high density premium grade. Anyone interested in trying this stuff out, find a source of high density or medium density premium or utility grade MDF, the other stuff will probably be very dissapointing. P.S. Baren Mall folks, my supplier is interested in offering it up for the Mall. Contact me off list for more details. Daniel L. Dew http://www.dandew.com/ ddew@tampabay.rr.com > From: Charles Morgan > Reply-To: baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp > Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:54:04 -0800 > To: baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp > Subject: [Baren 17065] more MDF > > I had carved and made preliminary prints with a block of MDF. In this case, > the "carving" was really more like engraving, being branches or vines and > leaves. I had an old can of clear Varathane sitting on the shelf, so I > thinned it 50/50 with paint thinner (the new "odorless" stuff). I then used > an old rag to apply it to the surface of the block. The Varathane went on > smoothly and dried overnight. It penetrated the surface readily and seems > to have sealed it just fine. It did not puddle in the engraved lines, and > none of them seem to have been filled. It seems to me that sealing the > block in this way would make it pretty well impervious to most anything. > > Wilson Harvey recently wrote that he is using MDF for woodcuts. > > Wilson, I have noticed that the MDF I have has a VERY FINE grain on the > surface ... sort of like very fine scratches, all parallel to each other. I > suppose it has to do with the manufacturing process. I could not see this > grain until I tried sanding the block. The MDF stuff is so hard, it seems > it would take quite a while to sand it out, and then I was concerned that > it would just reappear as I sanded. When I printed, the grain mostly > disappeared from the print after the first couple of prints were pulled, > but it did tend to linger in the middle of the print. I was printing by > hand, though I did also try an old book binding press. Does the MDF you are > using have the same surface texture I have noted in mine? Have you tried to > sand the grain out? Does it affect the print image? > > Thanks in advance for your comments ... Charles > ------------------------------ From: Charles Morgan Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:42:29 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17073] MDF Daniel, thanks so much for the clarification. I checked, and the MDF I have been using is NOT the low density shop grade, although it did come from Home Depot. They had a lower priced MDF, but when I looked at it, I did not think it suitable, so I bought the higher grade stuff. Just what it is I bought, I am not certain. From the tests I reported previously, the stuff I have stands up very well to moisture. I also checked with a local supplier, and "Rangerboard" is just a specific brand name for MDF. So, it looks like one has to be careful about the quality of the stuff you buy, just as with any wood product. By the way Daniel, can you answer the questions I previously posted about surface grain in MDF. Does the stuff you are using have any significant surface grain? Can it be sanded out? Cheers ..... Charles the neophyte ------------------------------ From: Aqua4tis@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:48:30 EST Subject: [Baren 17074] Re: Exchange #11 my print hello everyone i dont know if you had read what i wrote about this print but im totally ashamed of it i was going to try hanga with this print i had cut the blocks as if i would print them hanga style but one thing after another happened including my paper turning to mold and the color being totally washed out so i decided to switch to oily ink well i have a small press and the block wouldnt fit on the press bed so i had to print by hand (i have no strength or at least not enough) then i noticed that the ink was seaping into all the places that i didnt want it to go i had carved the last block as a key block but as you can see the black just got all over the place by this time i was totally frustrated my back and arms were killing me and michelle had even bribed me to keep going with the print and not drop out (thanks for your support michelle) id spent my last available funds on the new paper and so i was stuck as someone said.... my dilema was to turn in something obviously inferior that i was ashamed of or to break my word and drop out (at the last minute) i chose to keep my word but i will tell you that as soon as im able i intend to try this again and replace that print for everyone this has been a most humbling experience for me and now im leery of entering into any more exchanges i feel the latest dialog about the quality of the prints in exchanges was totally inspired by my awful print so i apologize to you all i meant to say something sooner but to be honest i didnt know what to say sincerely georga ------------------------------ From: barebonesart Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:51:35 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17075] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1727 This has nothing to do with anything except Graham's post about the time tomorrow - the 20:02, 2/20, 2002. Why won't the same thing work on Feb. 22, 2222 at 10:22 pm? Wouldn't that read 22:22, 2/22/2222? (There's one in every class/group.) :>) Sharri ------------------------------ From: Dan Dew Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:26:35 -0500 Subject: [Baren 17076] Encouragement Something I have always wanted to do, and now based on the conversation for the last few weeks, I'm gonna do it so stay tuned. I'm going to post my very first woodblock print! Then everyone can have a good laugh. But this group encouraged me to press on, and I have. Don't EVER let your first attempt be your last, but use it to grow and learn. Most artists I know, have read about and seen did not start off as a Michealangelo. Keep at it and never give up! Remember CUT, PRINT! or as Graham would say, CREATE, CUT, PRINT! or, as I would say, PHOTOGRAPH, DRAW, DRAW AGAIN, RE-DRAW AS A INK DRAWING, CUT, PRINT! **************************** Daniel L. Dew ddew0001@tampabay.rr.com ddew@tampabay.rr.com http://www.dandew.com **************************** ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:07:28 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17077] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1727 Gee .... I know I shouldn't.... Uses 2 short Sharri. (*<: It needs to read 2222 - 2222 - 2222 Oh and by the way, that posting should have been a FWD: as it came from a person in a computer groug. I shur aint smart inuff tu figer dat out. Graham >This has nothing to do with anything except Graham's post about the time >tomorrow - the 20:02, 2/20, 2002. Why won't the same thing work on Feb. 22, >2222 at 10:22 pm? Wouldn't that read 22:22, 2/22/2222? > >(There's one in every class/group.) >:>) > >Sharri ------------------------------ From: "Bill H Ritchie Jr" Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:29:36 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17078] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1724 Chine Colle Louise Cass wrote: >I have a request for help - I'm looking for information on chine colle with woodcuts (without a printing press) Louise, I made a DVD that takes about an hour but only if you have a DVD drive on your PC computer--a Windows system. Its title is Norie Sato: Nihon Chine Colle, and Norie made it around 1981 as a videotape. She's not using woodcut, although some of the colors on the paper were printed from color woodblocks. In the program, she used arrowroot starch for the adhesive. During taping, two other artists dropped in--Karen Guzak and Walter Cotten, both of whom were using Yes paste for their adhesive. It was before Methyl Cellulose was popular. The hard part about using the method I've used in chine colle is I always use damp paper, since I do a lot of intaglio, with a press. However, I recall doing a woodblock print for color, then using chine colle to laminate the woodblock (on a paper called Japanese Etching, resembling kitakata) to blank sheets of Rives, which I then registered and overprinted with lithograph. It seems to me all you need to do is experiment with laying down your chine colle using a "blank" block (uncut, but registered to fit your cut blocks). Once you get the right substance in your paste (Yes is good 'cause it is thick and ready made, dries slowly but quickly enough to get results). With a good strong baren, and if the sheets are not too large and hard to manage, I think you could do it. This is fun, trying to talk someone through a process. I could make a video, turn it into a DVD, send it out, and that's what I have in mind for my art education on line idea. Good luck, my Canadian friend! Bill H. Ritchie, Jr 500 Aloha #105 Seattle WA 98109 (206) 285-0658 mailto:ritchie@seanet.com Web sites: Professional: www.seanet.com/~ritchie Virtual Gallery and E-Store: www.myartpatron.com First Game Portal: www.artsport.com ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V18 #1728 *****************************