Baren Digest             Tuesday, 26 February 2002     Volume 18 : Number 1739


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Myron Turner <mturner@ms.umanitoba.ca>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 07:34:49 -0600
Subject: [Baren 17191] Hello 

I had known about baren forum for some time, but my first real contact with 
the forum came a few months ago when I searched through the forum archives 
for information about water-based printing inks.  I had a can of Daniel 
Smith water-based black and wanted to know whether there was an oily rag 
fire hazard.  I didn't find my answer but found a good deal of commentary 
about the use of water-based inks.  My own experience with the Daniel Smith 
water-based black is that it's a decent product--not as intensely black as 
their traditional relief black--a bit translucent--and probably not the 
best choice for a print with fine detail where there's a possibility that 
the detail will be subject to filling in.  I found the best results when 
using Japanese papers (I use moriki) and I use the Daniel Smith water-based 
now as my  proofing ink in the studio and print any editions using their 
traditional relief black at the Manitoba Printmakers Studio, which is 
properly ventilated.

As for the oily rag hazard--yes, there is a danger: the water-based ink has 
oil in it and so you have to store any clean-up rags safely.  I avoid the 
problem by simply washing everything off in the sink.

I was also interested in your discussions of tools--particularly power 
tools--as in today's discussion of the pro's and con's of Dremel vs 
Foredom.  I had a great power tool for my needs--a Ryobi detailer--in 
effect a power chisel, about the same size as a Dremel tool, which was 
great for clearing away large areas quickly.  It isn't being made anymore 
and was very inexpensive.  If anyone has one and doesn't want it, I'd be 
happy to buy it.  (I also lost my 20 year old Dremel tool with the Ryobi 
but rarely used it so don't miss it.).

By way of introduction:
I've been making woodblock prints since 1977, except for a 5 year period in 
the mid 80's.  The major thrust of my work from the mid 80's on has been 
photo and computer-based.  In 1988 I introduced woodblock prints into the 
photo-based work and so began making woodcuts again and have continued to 
do so ever since.  In 1995 I made a few prints based on digital "zoomed" 
images and in the past three years have been working out graphic means to 
represent digital images in black and white woodcuts.  This is not entirely 
a new departure for me, since many of the woodcuts  I made for my 
photo-based work in one way or another mirror or in some way work off 
against photographic processes.

I recently finished putting together a website for my woodcuts:

		http://www.room535.org/woodblocks/

It uses a great deal of JavaScript and there are notorious inconsistencies 
between browsers as to how they handle JavaScript.  I've tested it out on a 
variety of browsers on the PC and on Linux but not on the MAC.  If you have 
any bug reports, please let me know. I'd be very grateful.

Myron Turner
  http://www.room535.org/mt/
--land safely in cyberspace--


------------------------------

From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 06:44:27 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17192] Hello 

Myron,
Welcome to baren...it was so interesting to me to see work from one artist
over so long a time and see the development of your thoughts into woodblock.
The site worked very well for me, I have cable and internet explorer and a
pc so it loaded very fast.Good Job.
Barbara

- ----- Original Message -----

If you have any bug reports, please let me know. I'd be very grateful.

> Myron Turner
> http://www.room535.org/mt/




------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon@mlyon.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:52:14 -0600
Subject: [Baren 17193] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1737 

Dear Graham,

I am still a little groggy this morning after having been awakened shortly 
after midnight by a phone call from USA President George W. Bush.  After 
haranguing me for ten minutes about the disgraceful behavior by those 'bad 
girls' of USA hockey during which I kept a respectful (and wise) silence, 
he started in about how the media was completely lacking in class or ethics 
to have broadcast such a thing, and then he launched into a screaming 
monologue about how unfair it was for him to have to suffer the most 
sarcastic, insulting, disrespectful criticism pouring forth from our 
Canadian neighbors to the North (apparently there are many, many Canadians 
angered, almost to the brink of war, by what history will surely recall as 
the single most selfishly inflammatory act of the century -- believe me, 
you are not alone in your shock, dismay, and outspoken criticism of the 
girls, and by completely rational and logical extension, every man, woman, 
and child citizen of the USA).  But, only gathering steam, he began 
shouting some really paranoid and psychotic nonsense about adding both the 
USA girls' hockey team AND Western Canada to the "Evil Empire" list of 
nations soon to be bombed out of existence and then, just as suddenly, he 
paused, explained that he had several million additional calls yet to make 
and hung up.

I was absolutely taken aback, I tell you, taken A-BACK !!  I thank God I no 
longer play for the women's hockey team, that's all I can tell you.  That, 
and also... haven't we gotten a bit off-topic here?

Mike

01:12 PM 2/25/2002 +0900, you wrote:

>From: Graham <gscholes@woodblock.info>
>Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:00:21 -0800
>Subject: [Baren 17185] Ought Not
>
>To the people of America.
>
>Your hockey team ought not to have laid the flag of another nation on the 
>floor.
>
>Your Girls hockey team did this which made Canadians mad... very mad.
>It has been the talk here in Canada ever since this unacceptable action.
>
>Has America has lost more than just a couple of hockey games.... ?????
>
>Respectfully,
>
>Graham A. Scholes


Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon@mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com 

------------------------------

From: Myron Turner <mturner@Ms.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:15:57 -0600
Subject: [Baren 17194] Re: Hello 

  Barbara,

Thank you for your welcome.

(You have the optimal system for viewing my website.)

Myron

At 06:44 AM 25/02/2002 -0800, you wrote:

>Myron,
>Welcome to baren...it was so interesting to me to see work from one artist
>over so long a time and see the development of your thoughts into woodblock.
>The site worked very well for me, I have cable and internet explorer and a
>pc so it loaded very fast.Good Job.
>Barbara
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>If you have any bug reports, please let me know. I'd be very grateful.

> > Myron Turner
> > http://www.room535.org/mt/



------------------------------

From: GraphChem@aol.com
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:14:47 EST
Subject: [Baren 17195] Re: Hello 



Water-based ink with oil in it? I'm a little confused on that one.

Dean Clark
Graphic Chemical & Ink Company


------------------------------

From: Vishnovus@aol.com
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:17:58 EST
Subject: [Baren 17196] sizing paper? 

Anybody size their own paper? What does it entail?
I have a many sheets of lovely handmade Korean paper, and Im wondering if I 
can size it so it can be used for water based hanga. 
Ld

------------------------------

From: FurryPressII@aol.com
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:19:07 EST
Subject: [Baren 17197] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1737 

what next the irish problem?

john patrick

------------------------------

From: Myron Turner <mturner@Ms.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:35:54 -0600
Subject: [Baren 17198] Re: Hello 

I asked Daniel Smith whether there was an oily rag hazard and the sales rep 
checked with their chemist who said that there was oil in their inks and 
that there was therefore a fire hazard if clean-up rags weren't safely stored.

At 10:14 AM 25/02/2002 -0500, you wrote:

>Water-based ink with oil in it? I'm a little confused on that one.
>
>Dean Clark
>Graphic Chemical & Ink Company




------------------------------

From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 07:37:42 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17199] sizing paper?  

LD,
Here you go, from the baren archives of 1999.
Barbara

From: "Jean Eger" <jeaneger@LanMinds.Com>
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:13:18 +0900
Subject: [Baren 5761]

I can't imagine what the big deal is about sizing.  It is one of the EASIEST
things to do in hanga printmaking. And it yields proportionately infinitely
better printing results.  There is a recipe for size in the Walter J.
Phillips book online. The gelatin he mentions is the plain unflavored kind
you get in the supermarket.
http://www.sharecom.ca/phillips/technique.html
Here's what he says:
"SIZING PAPER. The following mixture (Mr. Urushibara's recipe) is sufficient
to size about fourteen sheets of Torinoko paper
(Imperial) on both sides:

Alum 1/8 oz.
Gelatine 1/4 oz.
Water 35 ozs.

Hosho paper should be sized only on one side, with half the quantity of
water.

Heat the water but do not let it boil. Add the gelatine and when that is
completely dissolved add the alum.

Different papers and different woods require slight modifications of the
recipe. So does a change in atmospheric conditions.
The necessary amount of modification is slight and is best decided by
experience. Mr. Urushibara advises a pinch more of alum for soft woods such
as whitewood, or for a soft paper or for a dry climate.

A BRUSH FOR SIZING.
Brushes for Printing and for Sizing
A broad brush is needed, neither thick nor long in the hair. My own is of
Japanese manufacture, six inches in width, the hair one and a quarter long
and three-eighths of an inch thick. Lay a sheet of Hosho paper upon a
drawing board flat upon the table, smooth side uppermost. With your brush
full, but not too full of warm size, cover the paper evenly. It is a
delicate process; use the brush as carefully as though you were painting a
portrait. Starting at one edge continue until you reach the other with a
band the full width of the brush. The second stroke must touch the first but
not overlap it. If possible do not go over the same place twice.

Do not flood the paper.

Keep the size warm.

The brush strokes should follow the same direction as the lines which
constitute the watermark.

Lay a second sheet over the first, and proceed in the same way.

Creases made during sizing are permanent. Therefore carefully avoid making
them.

Leave the pile of sized sheets for a while, so that the size may spread
evenly through it, but not too long, say half an
hour.

Now lay each sheet to dry upon newspaper spread upon the floor, or suspend
it from a line strung across the room as
clothes are hung up to dry. Use wooden clips for the latter purpose.

The rate of drying varies of course. Once in my experience in England,
notoriously humid, a whole winter's day and a night
failed to harden a sheet, whereas an hour on a Canadian summer's day will
suffice. ....

Torinoko paper must be sized on both sides with the weaker mixture. "

Enjoy,
Jean  Eger
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <Vishnovus@aol.com>
To: <baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 7:17 AM
Subject: [Baren 17196] sizing paper?



> Anybody size their own paper? What does it entail?
> I have a many sheets of lovely handmade Korean paper, and Im wondering if

I

> can size it so it can be used for water based hanga.
> Ld
>



------------------------------

From: Vishnovus@aol.com
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:46:03 EST
Subject: [Baren 17200] Re: Hello 

Im confused by this as well. If its a water based ink I would never suspect 
it had oil.

This brings up a good topic for us. How do we safely handle oily or solvent 
laden tarlatan or rags or paper towels. I have a metal garbage can with a lid 
and put them in there. Is this enough protection. 
Any thoughts on this?

------------------------------

From: "Bea Gold" <bnj50@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 07:58:18 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17201] Re: sizing paper? 

Take a look at http://woodblock.com/encyclopedia/entries/011_09/chap_4.html
in the Baren Library of John Platt's work.  Good luck.  Bea Gold

"Anybody size their own paper? What does it entail?
I have a many sheets of lovely handmade Korean paper, and Im wondering if I
can size it so it can be used for water based hanga.
Ld



------------------------------

From: FurryPressII@aol.com
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:12:41 EST
Subject: [Baren 17202] Re: Hello 

throw out all oily cleam up rags when you are finished never leave in 
studio.  covered out door garbage can.   between the fumes and fire hazzard 
never leave them overnite in your studio.

john center

------------------------------

From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:14:19 -0600
Subject: [Baren 17203] Re: Welcome 02/25/2002 11:14:23 AM 

Lot of new people onboard, and lot of lurkers speaking up...Myron, Rob,
Lynda..too many to name all....welcome ! Some wonderful stuff on power
tools, etc...hey Maria, we should probably capture some of this stuff for
the web page references!

A big round of applause for Carol Lyons in Irvington,NY, the NYFD prints
keep on selling, close to over $900 raised for the 911 Firemens Fund,
congrats to James Mundie I hear all three of his prints "Afterwards" have
sold out! Kudos to John Center for organizing the
folio and Dean Clark for his paper donations.

Next big challenges underway are the "LPE" exchange (as in Large-prints, up
to 22X30") organized by Rudolph Stadler and the upcoming 'Text-Messages"
Gospel project under the direction of Gregory Robison..show planned for
early June in Edinburg.


LD writes:
 "How do we safely handle oily or solvent laden tarlatan or rags or paper
towels....
Any thoughts on this?..."

Yeah (ha!)..takeup water-based hanga!


And finally....Graham writes:

"To the people of America...."

Last time I checked, Canada was still located in the North American
continent, just north of the UNITED STATES 'of' America...geography being
what it is we all live in the Americas..that make us all AMERICANS. Yeah,
also throw in Juan down in Mexico...Horacio in Brazil and all the wonderful
people up in Canada. It is called the Americas...but perhaps Graham if you
object, may I respectfully suggest you petition some court (or judges) to
have that decision "overturned" also ? Ooops, Sorry! No gold medals awarded
for geography!

thanks...Julio Rodriguez (Skokie, Illinois..and proud to be an American!)

For those geographically challenged non-printmaking stuff follows..from MSN
Encarta:

"North America, third largest of the seven continents, including Canada...
Together with Central America, the West Indies, and South America, North
America makes up the Western Hemisphere of Earth. North America is
sometimes defined to include Central America and the West Indies, which are
treated separately in Encarta Encyclopedia. The name America is derived
from that of Italian navigator Amerigo Vespucci, who may have visited the
mainland of North America in 1497 and 1498."




------------------------------

From: "Maria Arango" <maria@mariarango.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:31:54 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17204] RE: haz mat 

Fire department for these parts recommends either a metal can with lid (OSHA
approved and blessed at $120), or alternatively a bucket filled with water.
As I use linseed oil often, I use rags once and dispose of them in a
water-filled bucket. The bucket lives outside with the feral cats and gets
taken to the Hazardous Materials dump once every six months or so. The cats
get taken to the vet once a year for shots.
The "rags" incidentally are recycled socks, t-shirts and other things. I
clean up with baby-oil and windex; baby-oil/ink soaked paper towels go into
my water bucket. Windex/residue soaked paper towels go into the trash. Since
we have a well I became very aware of tainting the aquifer and/or the lake,
so I don't wash anything down the sink; always opt for the dry method of
cleaning.

In getting a business license with home office, I had the immense pleasure
of getting a fire department visit. Subsequently I spent around $500 in
metal cabinets and shelves for my _pint_ of lacquer thinner, 1/2 pint of
acetone, quart of paint thinner and other horrible things I keep in the
studio. I also had to dig up tech-sheets for inks and additives.
Truth is most home-owners have 10 times the hazardous materials I have in
the studio, but enforcement of such things is only for businesses. And
really, I don't want my studio/house to be destroyed by my own negligence,
so I comply.

Maria

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Maria Arango
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
maria@mariarango.com
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>>


------------------------------

From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:43:49 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17205] hazards  

Maria,
You are wise to follow these rules. A solid metal cabinet with doors that
lock for anything that can burn. Wooden cabinet with wooden doors for any
acids. Metal cans with tight lids for all solvent towels and rags. A
separate metal can with lid for tarleton.

This is important, friends, and unless you are only doing hanga, get going
and do this! Your life could depend on it.

The water thing is a new one for me, I had not heard that before. It must be
quite a mess to deal with it after 6 months. Ugh, just the thought makes me
queezy. You are tough! Do you take it water and all???? How do you lift it?

I called our local hazmat and they said I did not have enough solvent soaked
stuff to matter, just put it in the garbage.....I take it to work and put it
in the large METAL garbage can on the day they pick it up. Better safe than
sorry. If you have ever had a fire in your home you will know my concern, it
you haven't I hope you never do. Following these safety steps will insure
you never do.
Barbara


------------------------------

From: "Maria Arango" <maria@mariarango.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:24:03 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17206] RE: hazards 


> The water thing is a new one for me, I had not heard that before.
> It must be
> quite a mess to deal with it after 6 months. Ugh, just the
> thought makes me
> queezy. You are tough! Do you take it water and all???? How do
> you lift it?


Just looks like a bucket with wet rags, I don't spend a lot of time
appreciating the nuances (I'm kidding you a little). Yes, I take it water
and all; the "dump" here has a day per quarter where they will accept
haz.mat. of any kind from homeowners for free. But I do have to make the
long drive.
As for lifting it, knees shoulder-width apart, grab handle with both hands,
lift with knees not back  [;-)] Really it just weighs about 50 lbs. or so, a
bit more than a bag of wolf-chow.

M

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Maria Arango
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
maria@mariarango.com
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>


------------------------------

From: Frank Trueba <ftrueba@cats.ucsc.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:26:37 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17207] Re: hazards 

Yikes, all this discussion about flammability is making me nervous.
I printed with oil based ink for one project (and given all the
clean-up trouble I'm not sure I'll ever do it again) and I used
cooking oil, Simple Green, and a lot of wiping to clean up.
Those rags/paper towels were tossed in the regular trash.
Was that a mistake?

Most often, I use water soluble inks--mostly from Graphic Chem.
and when cleaning up I usually wipe down and use Simple Green
(or the Orange equivalent) with water, and then I simply toss the
towels/rags in the regular trash but I seem to be hearing that I
ought not (and in fact treat these inky rags as hazardous material)
- --am I reading the messages correctly?

Lastly, do oil based inks in of themselves in their metal containers
pose any fire hazard? Should they be locked up in metal cabinets?

Thanks in advance for the advice.
frank

ftrueba@cats.ucsc.edu


At 09:43 AM 2/25/2002 -0800, you wrote:

>Maria,
>You are wise to follow these rules. A solid metal cabinet with doors that
>lock for anything that can burn. Wooden cabinet with wooden doors for any
>acids. Metal cans with tight lids for all solvent towels and rags. A
>separate metal can with lid for tarleton.
>
>This is important, friends, and unless you are only doing hanga, get going
>and do this! Your life could depend on it.
>
>The water thing is a new one for me, I had not heard that before. It must be
>quite a mess to deal with it after 6 months. Ugh, just the thought makes me
>queezy. You are tough! Do you take it water and all???? How do you lift it?
>
>I called our local hazmat and they said I did not have enough solvent soaked
>stuff to matter, just put it in the garbage.....I take it to work and put it
>in the large METAL garbage can on the day they pick it up. Better safe than
>sorry. If you have ever had a fire in your home you will know my concern, it
>you haven't I hope you never do. Following these safety steps will insure
>you never do.
>Barbara



------------------------------

From: "Maria Arango" <maria@mariarango.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:03:54 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17208] Re: hazards 


> Yikes, all this discussion about flammability is making me nervous.
> I printed with oil based ink for one project (and given all the
> clean-up trouble I'm not sure I'll ever do it again) and I used
> cooking oil, Simple Green, and a lot of wiping to clean up.
> Those rags/paper towels were tossed in the regular trash.
> Was that a mistake? (and in fact treat these inky rags as hazardous

material)

> --am I reading the messages correctly?
>
> Lastly, do oil based inks in of themselves in their metal containers
> pose any fire hazard? Should they be locked up in metal cabinets?


Oil based inks are pigment, linseed oil, drier in some cases (along, I'm
sure with other mysterious ingredients). I wouldn't lock them up without
enough evidence, they might lawyer-up and sue you. On the other hand, I
wouldn't eat them either, mainly on account of pigments like titanium white
and cobalt in the driers.
I am merely following my fire-inspector's suggestions on storage of
solvents, not inks. My inks were allowed to live on a wooden shelf out in
the open where they can talk to each other and snicker at my printmaking
attempts.
Linseed oil (all the plate oils) has a reputation for getting "hot" and
catching things on fire, especially when placed on a convenient vehicle like
a cotton rag. Mix linseed oil with acetone and you got fireworks, even in
trace amounts. I draw on my cherry blocks with Sharpie markers (permanent)
which contain acetone; I generously coat my blocks with linseed oil prior to
cutting and learned the hard way that these two substances don't like each
other. My block acquired a sudden blush-tan and it felt hot to the touch for
a while.

Disposal of any and all the above isn't dangerous in the trash. It is
however, environmentally speaking, best to separate such things and dispose
of them as hazardous materials. Anything that goes to the trash and
subsequently to the dump, gets piled up and is free to leach into the
ground, eventually making it into our ground water. The disposal services
(hopefully, so they say) treat hazardous materials differently so that they
don't just get dumped with the diapers and banana peels.
Anyhow, I'm no environmental saint and certainly I'm not trying to lecture.
Just trying to do my little bit here and there.

Maria

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Maria Arango
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
maria@mariarango.com
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>


------------------------------

From: FurryPressII@aol.com
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 17:50:09 EST
Subject: [Baren 17209] Re: hazards 

They only do haz mat here in Chicago twice a year and you have to deliver it 
your self.  As is the case the delivery point is in a very dangerous 
neiborhood.  It would take more trouble to deliver it than it is worth 
between the gasoline burned and the possibility of bodily harm I just put it 
in the trash. I personally don't drive so I am already do my part.
I am allergic to orange stuff give me head aches. 

john

------------------------------

From: Myron Turner <mturner@Ms.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:22:07 -0600
Subject: [Baren 17210] Re: hazards 

Hi Frank,

I think most of your questions have been answered.  I have just one further 
suggestion.  When cleaning up oil-based inks, it's a good idea first to 
scrape the inking plate as clean as possible using one of those paint 
scrapers which hold a single edged razor blade.  You'd be surprised at how 
clean you can get the plate.  Then you have a minimum of ink to wash off 
the plate with solvents.   Instead of rags, once the plate is wiped clean 
you can use tissues or toilet paper--I use the latter and then flush it.

You can clean the scraper blade on paper by drawing it along the paper so 
as to spread the ink as thin as possible.  This paper shouldn't be a fire 
hazard and you can just toss it in an outside garbage can to feel extra 
safe.  But if you don't throw it outdoors, don't ball the paper up--leave 
it flat.   At the manitoba Printmakers we use old phone books for this.

As for the roller, roll out the ink on a clean inking slab to get off as 
much of the ink as possible.  The roller will transfer a thin film of ink 
to the plate--give the plate the solvent and toilet paper treatment. Repeat 
this procedure, adding solvent to the mix.  After a few of these treatments 
the roller will be fairly clean, then you can give it as well the solvent 
and toilet paper treatment.

Myron


At 10:26 AM 25/02/2002 -0800, you wrote:

>Yikes, all this discussion about flammability is making me nervous.
>I printed with oil based ink for one project (and given all the
>clean-up trouble I'm not sure I'll ever do it again) and I used
>cooking oil, Simple Green, and a lot of wiping to clean up.
>Those rags/paper towels were tossed in the regular trash.
>Was that a mistake?



------------------------------

End of Baren Digest V18 #1739
*****************************