Baren Digest Friday, 15 March 2002 Volume 18 : Number 1763 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Lyon Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:48:52 -0600 Subject: [Baren 17508] Re: Taking the plunge Multi - multi - multi !! Of course! Keep it dry -- drier than you believe it possibly ought to be (without actually being 'dry', of course), and don't be impatient -- if at first the color doesn't seem saturated enough, you can print again and again and again -- but allow time for moisture you added with the color to migrate evenly through paper (hours) before re-printing the same area or you will likely make that area too wet! Don't expect too much from your first prints. I have had some great experiences practicing printing with two blocks (a Toshi Yoshida teaching invention) -- you print over and over with those two blocks on the same (say ten to twenty) practice sheets of several different papers... Do it all day for a couple days -- printing the same papers over and over. If you like, I could upload a sketch of something like those two great practice blocks? Makes the environment much more 'controlled' and the minimal nature of of the design will stimulate you a great deal with the potential of overprinting transparent (water color) and opaque (gouache) colors. Let me know if you're interested in trying that approach? Mike At 04:21 PM 3/13/02 -0500, you wrote: >O.K. you Hanga Masters: >If someone (ME) were to try the traditional Japanese methodology, would you >recommend the first attempt to be a one color block or a multi-color block. >I.E. Dip your toe in or take the plunge? > >Nervous in Tampa, > > > >Daniel L. Dew >http://www.dandew.com/ >ddew@tampabay.rr.com > mikelyon@mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: Daniel Dew Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:10:09 -0500 Subject: [Baren 17509] Taking the plunge I have to make a minor confession here, I've actually tried this a little bit, but not all the way (be nice). I've attempted to mix Western and Japanese methods, almost all ending in disaster. Actually, this is my only "quasi" successful attempt: http://www.dandew.com/proverbs16_30.htm I dampened the paper, but used a brayer to apply the ink, no paste. Like I said, my only semi-useful attempt. Otherwise, disaster after disaster, but I'm learning! Number 1: Do not submerge the paper in a tub of water and let it sit for five minutes, then try and blot it to the acceptable dampness, it doesn't work. It took me literally days and almost a whole pad of newsprint to get the paper back to a useable dampness. Then, as you can see from the print, I never could get the &^(% thing perfectly flat again. I think I'll try Julio's suggestion with a bottle sprayer. Number 2: Linoleum doesn't work that well, at least with dampened paper and Speedball ink rolled on to the block. Yuk. If anyone knows how to do this with lino blocks, I have six carved already and a key block (P.S. They are carved deep enough to allow for the technique), and would love to complete the print the way it was intended. Number 3: Do not try this was Masa paper or Sumi rice paper, Oh Vey, what a mess. Here is my most recent attempt at the mix: http://www.dandew.com/tiger.htm http://www.dandew.com/owl.htm The eyes were brushed on with a brush, no paste on dry paper. The rest of the pritn was a reduction block. So, I'm pumped to try. I will read and re-read all the newbie stuff on BarenForum, plus that monstrous thing I downloaded from the website by some Japanese guy ages ago. Daniel L. Dew http://www.dandew.com/ ddew@tampabay.rr.com ------------------------------ From: John and Jan Telfer Date: Thu, 14 Mar 02 23:59:13 -0000 Subject: [Baren 17510] Re: Welcome to Baren Welcome to Baren, Bette. There are many of us here that aren't experts in this field or for most of us in any other field either, but we all enjoy the support of the Baren Community. Welcome as a calligrapher... >I've been a calligrapher since 1980, am a member of the Greater Cincinnati >Calligraphers Guild, the Cincinnati Book Arts Society, and the Letterpress >gang from Art Academy of Cinct. I try to fit in all the workshops that I >can manage. There are about three of us who have put their hand up here too, although I come short of being a Commercial Calligrapher!!! It is difficult to combine my calligraphy skills and woodblocks on an editional basis, but I am prepared to give it a try for an exchange. I enjoy adding calligraphy to a Unique state classification of one of my prints. Western Australia has been priveleged to some very good US calligraphers...Thomas Ingmire my pin-up boy!! I hope you will enjoy your experiences with Baren woodblock printmakers. Yes, Kim too I see caught your "calligraphy" reference! >Hi Bette, welcome! > >Always good to know another >calligrapher/printmaker..... > >Kim Medina Jan Perth Western Australia ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:04:08 -0600 Subject: [Baren 17511] Re: Taking the plunge "My" method of damping paper for water-based Japanese woodblock printing... The day before you intend to begin print: 1. Take stack of dry printing paper and cut or tear it to size. If torn, use a blade to cut one corner and just a portion of an adjacent side to fit the kento for registration purposes (if this is gobbledy gook, get a book - -- Toshi Yoshida's is great -- out of print, but available at the library, I bet or check out http://barenforum.org ). Arrange the papers neatly face down, as that is how you'll take them to lay them on the block for printint. 2. Prepare a newsprint pad -- this is to keep prints from drying while printing. On a large plastic garbage bag (good to keep everything damp between printing sessions) I stack four to six sheets of newsprint. Then, with a squeeze-handle atomizing spray bottle (bought mine for $1 at the hardware store -- the kind you'd use to spray window cleaner, while ironing, for plants, etc. The finer the mist and the fewer big droplets the better, but it's really not critically important) -- I spray the middle sheet well, and the top sheet well, (not soaking -- maybe 50% damp = 1/2 water dots 1/2 dry), fold it in half, dry side in. After folding in half the area should be at least twice that of the printing paper. 3. Open the newsprint pad back up, and lay the first piece of printing paper (face down) roughly centered on the near 1/2 of the newsprint pad. Spray the mister trigger about 1/2 way so the mist is a little cloud over the paper. Lay the next sheet down and repeat this step until all printing papers have been laid down. I have had best results stacking the papers exactly one on top of the other at this stage. During printing I have best results offsetting each print on top of the previous -- that equalizes the moisture content of the paper more effectively than stacking in perfect alignment. If the paper is very light weight (say, kitakata), I use 1/2 spritz on every other sheet. If the paper is very heavy (say, Gampi or Inomachi), I use 1 1/2 spritzes on every sheet. 4. When I'm done, I complete the fold of the newsprint pad so the paper stack is covered and slip the whole thing inside the plastic garbage bag and I fold the open end under so it is more or less air and moisture tight. I lay a board over the top so that I'm sure the papers are making good contact one to another. Then I leave the stack undisturbed over night. The next day when I am ready to begin printing... I usually 'cut' the paper stack so that the top and bottom sheet are now adjacent in the middle of the stack, and I 'fold' the papers back and forth from one hand to the other so they fan out in order to make it easier to catch one paper at a time during printing. The paper should NOT feel wet (nor should it feel 'bone dry'). It should be 'relaxed' and cool to the cheek (from evaporation). If it is too dry, it will curl up as soon as it touches the block (the paper will expand slightly as it picks up additional moisture from the block). If it is too wet, the pigment will tend to spread out and you will have a hard time printing a second or third (or 15th) block. If you are printing consecutive over-lapping areas over a short time, the paper will become more limp and over-saturated in those areas and the color won't properly 'stand up'. Then you need to stop, put the paper stack back in the plastic bag and wait a few hours to overnight for the moisture to migrate evenly throughout the paper again before you resume printing. It's like every other skill which continues to improve with time and practice -- the more you do it, the more proficient your technique. - -- Mike At 10:10 AM 3/14/2002 -0500, Dan Dew wrote: >I think I'll try Julio's suggestion with a bottle sprayer. Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon@mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:28:57 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17512] Re: Taking the plunge Dan, I am please to see you going to use the Hosho paper.... that's what you mean when you say "expensive" Be careful when wetting hosho paper. Each paper has is own requirements. Time nor space prevents me from getting into that subject. Dealing with the preparation of Hosho, all that is needed is two sheets of blotter paper. Dampen them. Put this inside a fold over of poly to keep it damp in this quasi 'damp box'. Cut the hosho paper to size and with a very dry mizubake brush (or equivalent) apply a dry brush amount of water... do you understand that term... on the back of every second sheet of paper. Place these in the damp box for about 2 hours minimum. It will then be ready to go. You may have to do this again as you progress with the printing process as the paper can dry slightly during the procedure. When printing have another sheet of poly beside the printing station, under which you can place a few of the sheets from the damp box. This method will maintain the moisture while printing. What could be easier. I do not like to use newsprint as a moisture retaining method. There is a great deal of acidity in newsprint and it can possibly be transfer, especially with the moisture, to your archival paper. There are other matters that require attention, like inking, which is covered elsewhere. The fact of the matter is that this is a hands on after you see it demonstrated and that is not a likely hood. Read the material out there and practice the technique. You can learn a lot by using cheap old news print to understand the pigment/rice paste volume on the plate. My best shot would be to not see any brush strokes and have the moisture shine on the plate be duller than "semigloss" ... close to "luster" that we come to know on painted wall surfaces. Let me know if you need help in any one given area. I will do my best. Mind you have to do your best. CREATE - CUT - PRINT. Graham/Sidney BC An Island in the Pacific Home of the Boot Camp http://woodblock.info ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:47:55 -0600 Subject: [Baren 17513] Japanese waterbased printing practice method ?? Dear Dan, You mentioned a short time ago that you were getting ready to just 'jump in' and begin printing Japanese technique water based wood blocks. I mentioned that I'd practiced with two blocks originally described by Toshi Yoshida for demonstrating overprinting of transparent and opaque water colors. I have put up a page http://www.mlyon.com/baren/ which shows those blocks and also four of my VERY FIRST moku-hanga practice prints from the blocks. Lots of technical problems with those prints, of course, but they have a nice quality typical of the technique and maybe this will stimulate a couple ideas... I recommend you try it out and see for yourself !!... Good Luck, Mike Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon@mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: Bette Wappner Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:11:30 -0500 Subject: [Baren 17514] Re: Japanese waterbased printing practice method ?? Dear Mike, and everyone who is offering Moku Hanga tips and techniques, I found these very educational, interesting, and inspiring. Thank you for your helpful advice. I hope that someday I too can be helpful to someone else. Bette Wappner > From: Mike Lyon > Reply-To: baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp > Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:47:55 -0600 > To: baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp > Subject: [Baren 17513] Japanese waterbased printing practice method ?? > > Dear Dan, > > You mentioned a short time ago that you were getting ready to just 'jump > in' and begin printing Japanese technique water based wood blocks. I > mentioned that I'd practiced with two blocks originally described by Toshi > Yoshida for demonstrating overprinting of transparent and opaque water > colors. I have put up a page http://www.mlyon.com/baren/ which shows those > blocks and also four of my VERY FIRST moku-hanga practice prints from the > blocks. Lots of technical problems with those prints, of course, but they > have a nice quality typical of the technique and maybe this will stimulate > a couple ideas... I recommend you try it out and see for yourself !!... > > Good Luck, > > Mike > Mike Lyon > mailto:mikelyon@mlyon.com > http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:38:49 -0600 Subject: [Baren 17515] Re: Taking the plunge 03/14/2002 04:38:54 PM Welcome to Bette and all the other newcomers... Wetting the paper.......... I pretty much follow the same technique that Mike Lyons described. Ditto. Some people use the dry-brush approach ala Graham & David, others improvise and/or use the spray bottle atomizer. I had very little success on my first attempts to use a brush to wet the paper....loose hairs, uneven moisture, curling, etc....so I turned to a cheap spray bottle and it seems to work for me. Probably cheap materials/tools. I work mostly with Rives heavy (150gms), (that's what you get in my exchange prints), sometimes the light Rives (90gms) and sometimes I'll throw some sheets of the expensive Yamaguchi Hosho paper in there to get an idea of what a "real' print would look like. The Rives (not the BFK) comes in a 20"X30" size which gives me an inexpensive ($2.19 a sheet) substitute for Hosho....I like the feel and it is very close to feel & color to hosho....obviously nowhere near a match in other important qualities. I set the spray to a fine mist and hold each sheet of paper (cut to print size) up in the air and from about 10-12" spray a fine mist....depending on the size, I will spray one to four times to cover the sheet with a fine mist trying to stay away from big drops or a runny mess. Then I place them down....with the dry side touching the wet side of the previous print. The plastic bag, the board, etc....ala Mike's description....ditto. When done this way, my paper runs a little bit on the wet side and I have to let it adjust a little bit to room temperature (I print a lot outside in the garage) or/and let it air and dry a bit prior to printing.....this is of course easily controlled.... via blotters and/or by just opening that plastic bag a bit before printing. Mike, thanks for the Yoshida blocks...I have the same book and your large images are clearer and show the subtle tonal diferences much better. Good exercise. The thing about this part of the book, is that not only it deals with color variants and overlays, but it also goes into a whole chapter on special effects (baren controlled and/or special materials such as cardboard, plastics, wood textures, etc..) really a wonderful how-to guide. thanks.....Julio Dan...those owl & tiger prints look awfully good, not sure what your complaining is all about.... ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V18 #1763 *****************************