Baren Digest Saturday, 16 March 2002 Volume 18 : Number 1764 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: G Wohlken Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:47:31 -0500 Subject: [Baren 17516] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1763 Hey, everyone, it's nice to be studying hanga again through your detailed descriptions of the processes. The idea of a hanga exchange after we're done with some of the other immediate projects will be fun, and I hope it happens. I have more information regarding the Sacred Trees/Endangered Species exhibit coming up in July/August in Ohio. I asked Teresa Runion (of the Geauga Park District) if there might be room for the Salon prints for the Endangered Species. She thought we could double up some of the smaller prints on the walls. I went to Walgreens and picked up a couple of the type frames Julio used for the Skokie shows and we played with them and found a way we can use the Meyer Center's hanging method (a wire dropped from a molding near the ceiling) with those frames which ordinarily require a nail on the wall. We were able to wrap the wire around the crosspiece at the top of the frame. The frame hung neatly, so we will be able to use that type frame. Anyway, I was NOT in the Salon so do not have a set of prints. If the Salon people want their prints in the show, then I will need copies, and if you want to sell, I need a price. Please get in touch with me regarding this. Gayle Wohlken Ohio, USA ------------------------------ From: ArtfulCarol@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:01:25 EST Subject: [Baren 17517] Benefit Followup For the records, I will be sending each off-list your buyers' names and addresses. Also they would like your e-mail address for possible information about your work. Please let me know if you do NOT want that given out.This will take a little time . >From the Guest Book: "Thanks for the Heart and Love", Michael Quinn, Irvington "Overwhelmed" , Hank Conklin, Irvington Carol ------------------------------ From: Daniel Dew Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:10:27 -0500 Subject: [Baren 17518] Lino Blcoks for Hanga Theoretically, lino blocks should work in the same manner as wood blocks, correct? i.e. paste and stuff? thanks, Feeling more confident in Tampa Daniel L. Dew http://www.dandew.com/ ddew@tampabay.rr.com ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:19:11 -0600 Subject: [Baren 17519] Re: Lino Blcoks for Hanga Haven't tried it, but sure wouldn't think so... Just guessing here... Try brushing some plain water or watercolor on an uncut lino-block and see what happens -- if it beads, clean it with soap/water, still beads, clean with solvent, still beads, sand it (400 grit?), if it still beads, shellac it, if it still beads, use wood? Mike At 02:10 PM 3/15/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Theoretically, lino blocks should work in the same manner as wood blocks, >correct? >i.e. paste and stuff? > >thanks, > >Feeling more confident in Tampa > >Daniel L. Dew >http://www.dandew.com/ >ddew@tampabay.rr.com Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon@mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:31:06 EST Subject: [Baren 17520] Re: Lino Blcoks for Hanga question can you use a block printed in the western oil based method to print in the japanese method? What effect would the oil based ink have on the water basted ink? And how would the image change with the two totally different methods of inking the block? Would love to see how different the two prints would be. john center ------------------------------ From: Daniel Dew Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:45:05 -0500 Subject: [Baren 17521] Re: Lino Blcoks for Hanga So sorry, let me clarify. I use water based inks on lino blocks, so... >Would love to see how different the two prints would be. > > > john center I'll let you know, cause I plan to try. Daniel L. Dew Suncoast Equipment Funding Corporation http://www.dandew.com/ ddew@tampabay.rr.com ------------------------------ From: Artsmadis@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:18:44 EST Subject: [Baren 17522] postcard exchange For those not on Prints-L, I thought there would be some interes in this: Printmakers, Please share information about this project with as many people as you can. Iowa State University's Print Club is hosting the 2nd Annual Postcard Print Exchange. Last year a little over 100 artists participated with entries from across the United States and as far away as South Africa and Australia. Please read the following prospectus and pass the information on. Thank you. April Katz You are invited to participate in the 2ND Annual University Print Society Postcard Print Exchange The theme for this year's exchange is "ORIGINS" -Whether based on an individual's background, culture, or the beginning of something else entirely. Any EDITIONABLE printmaking technique maybe used. (woodcuts, litho, intaglio, photography, silkscreen, digital printmaking, etc) The post cards must be 4" x 6". 13 prints of the same edition should be sent individually to the address posted below. ENTRIES DUE: APRIL 29, 2002 (Prints received after April 29, 2002 will not be included in the exchange - So please try to postmark prints before April 19) After receiving everyone's postcard prints the University Print Society will randomly divide up the cards and you will be sent 12 new and different prints from other participants. The University Print Society will keep one of the 13 for its collection. Postage for returning the 12 new prints will be paid for by the University Print Society. Please be sure to put your return address on every postcard sent. [ No entry fee.] send postcard prints to: April Katz University Print Society 158 Design Iowa State University Ames, IA 50011-3092 *Please send questions and comments to aljoy215@yahoo.com. ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:42:31 +0900 Subject: [Baren 17523] Paper grain ... "What tangled webs we weave ..." Hands up all the [Baren] members who are on different email lists! Pretty much all of you I guess ... certainly I am, and what confusion it sometimes is, trying to keep track of who you are talking to and on what list! Anyway, what I'm getting at is that I was having a 'conversation' somewhere else the other day with Mike Lyon about some aspects of printing paper, and after a while we sort of realized that our postings really should have been here on [Baren], where other members could contribute their experiences and knowledge to the discussion. So I'll try and 'move' the discussion over here. I'll start with a couple of quotes from our earlier messages, and then toss it open ... *** Dave wrote: > The kind of paper you used for your tests has quite a strong 'grain', > just like a piece of wood. I don't know if you've ever tried to tear > some, but you will probably have discovered that it tears fairly well > in one dimension, and almost not at all in the other. Now that's no big > deal, but another characteristic of the paper - related to this grain - > is that when it absorbs moisture it expands _in different amounts_ in > these two directions. In an inexpensive paper, the difference can be > very large (say 3% in one direction, 1% in the other), while in the > finest papers, the difference is small (although still there). > > You can easily test this by drawing some 'ruler' markings on a piece of > dry paper horizontally and vertically and then moistening it to see how > the two rulers expand. > > Anyway, long story short, the point is that _as far as possible_ > printers within this tradition try to arrange things to that the > 'grain' of the paper runs in the long dimension of the prints, and this > long dimension is placed _horizontally_ in front of the printer. > > This has two benefits: > > - it makes sense for the dimension of maximum paper distortion to be > placed along the smaller dimension of the print, minimizing potential > problems. > > - the force of the baren side to side is thus running _along_ the > grain. When it runs _across_ the grain it tends to stretch the paper > even more. On a multi-coloured print, the paper can really get out of > shape fast, as looks a bit evident even in the two-colour samples you > show. > > Now in the strictly traditional techniques, this is taken one step > further, and the _wood_ is always cut the same way. In a traditional > reproductive print, the block would never be cut with the grain running > up-and-down like the block you show, for basically the same reasons - > wood expands much more _across_ the grain than _along_ it. Having the > wood cut one way and the paper cut the other way results in extremely > difficult registration. *** Mike wrote: > I'm gonna have to take a closer look at all my paper -- I'm sure I've > cut some sheets one direction and some the other in order to achieve > the most efficient use of the sheet... I'll try your 'ruler test' and > make a record... ... I was really aware of the expansion and > contraction of the paper while printing 'pupils and lips' on my recent > "Pushing up Daisies" for the flora exchange... Although I believe I > accurately registered each sheet, there were considerable differences > in the registration between key block and 'pupils and lips' (and hair > and sky and other stuff) block because of (apparently) slight changes > in moisture content. I don't normally consider 1/20th of an inch out > of register to be a registration disaster, but I did find those > examples where the bluish pupil of the eye printed in the sclera > disturbing. Sometimes small things really make a big difference! > I looked at the images I put up on the web page at > http://www.mlyon.com/baren/ and I can see the 'laid lines' running > vertically on the paper -- is the paper grain always parallel to those > lines? *** Dave is answering ... Yes, they will indicate 'grain' direction, but I should add that those lines are _not_ the grain, nor is their presence or absence any indication of grain direction. Those lines were left by thin strips of bamboo on the bottom of the 'screen' (I don't remember the proper papermaker's term) on which the paper is formed. If you hold any traditional Japanese print up to the light you will see these lines - about 3 cm apart - but it is common these days for contemporary artists to order their paper without these lines. They feel that they are disruptive to the image. For many many years back, the Yoshida studio ordered all their paper this way, and their papermaker had to place a thin piece of netting on the screen to stop the lines from forming. But the 'grain' that I am talking about isn't anything visible - it's an artifact of the way the paper-maker moves his/her arms during the forming process. They dip the screen into the vat full of prepared fibres, and then pull it up and begin a complex 'rocking' process. Although there are some side-to-side rocking motions, most of the main action takes place front-to-back, and it is this action that lays down the tiny fibres in a way that leaves them in some kind of 'order', giving the paper more strength in one direction, compared to the other. The grain is always in the direction running away from the papermaker as he stands at the vat. As the sheets are almost always wider than they are tall, the grain thus usually runs along the shorter edge of the sheet. As I mentioned the other day, top people can make paper so well laid down that the expansion in the horizontal and vertical directions is almost the same (although when you try and tear it horizontally or vertically you will discover that the grain is still there), but most papermakers are not that skilled (or perhaps they just don't feel that this is important, I don't know). I have no experience with handmade papers in other traditions (western, etc.) so I have no idea whether or not they exhibit similar characteristics. But when using Japanese papers, planning how to cut your sheets is a very important part of the process. Dave ------------------------------ From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:05:19 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17524] Re: Lino Blcoks for Hanga Dan, Not exactly, but I think it would be close. Our printing blocks at boot camp were very smooth and shiny, much smoother and shinier than my lino blocks. I have printed with water based inks on them and it works. I have not printed them in moku hanga, but I will try it soon and let you know how it works...my blocks have watersoluble backing so I cannot get them very wet. So it will be a quick test. Barbara > Theoretically, lino blocks should work in the same manner as wood blocks, > correct? > i.e. paste and stuff? > thanks, > Feeling more confident in Tampa > Daniel L. Dew > ------------------------------ From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:07:38 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17525] Re: Lino Blcoks for Hanga John, I have printed the same blocks both ways and it seems to work...the trick is to make sure the oil based blocks are very clean, no residue left. Barbara > question can you use a block printed in the western oil based method to print > in the japanese method? What effect would the oil based ink have on the > water basted ink? > And how would the image change with the two totally different methods of > inking the block? Would love to see how different the two prints would be. > john center > ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:19:51 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17526] Re: Lino Blcoks for Hanga Barbara.... Did you use the transparent pigment as we use a Boot Camp? You can use gouache nicely. Graham >John, >I have printed the same blocks both ways and it seems to work...the trick is >to make sure the oil based blocks are very clean, no residue left. >Barbara > >> question can you use a block printed in the western oil based method to >print >> in the japanese method? What effect would the oil based ink have on the >> water basted ink? >> And how would the image change with the two totally different methods of >> inking the block? Would love to see how different the two prints would >be. >> john center >> ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:12:42 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17527] Re Paper grain ... It hasn't been mentioned how to determine the grain in a piece of paper other than the short long side thingie. Actually I would be surprised if everybody here didn't know the two ways to determine the grain of paper. For those that don't know please take one step forward.... here they are. 1. Roll or bend the paper in one direction and then the other direction.... the easiest bend direction is the direction of the grain. 2. Wet the paper on one side only. Which ever way the roll happens is the grain of the paper. (along the roll, not across) I bet every on knew that.... put up your hand if you did or didn't...(*<: Oh one more piece of trivia .... If there is not an easier bend or a roll when paper is wettened. or is that wetted... then the paper or cardboard is a fordineer sheet. Dave wrote..... >top people can make paper so well laid down that ..... So if top people make paper.... who makes tops? Hanga if I can get a spin on that. Graham ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:17:13 EST Subject: [Baren 17528] Re: Paper grain ... generally hand made paper does not have grain as the fibers sit on the mold in a random nature but all machine made papers do have a grain direction, Japanese hand made papers should not have one eather the lines you see are the bambo used on the mold not any grain direction. all machine made western paper does have a grain. If you are printing it dry it should not matter unless you are going to use it in book arts because the grain is very important in folding the paper. For more info look into any book binding instructional manual as all should give info on the subject. john center ------------------------------ From: Cucamongie@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:39:57 EST Subject: [Baren 17529] paper dampening I have seen various ways of dampening paper for hanga, but I would like to share one simple way I learned from Yasu Shibata, a master printer formerly of Tyler Graphics (both April & I took his class at Cooper Union). Using sheets of newsprint larger than your print, first spray a sheed with your plant sprayer or similar tool, then take a wide mizubake, or wide hake brush or similar very wide brush to spread the water evenly over the newspaper, then place a sheet of dry printing paper over that, place another newsprint sheet over that & repeat til you have the stack of all the paper you want to print. Put this inside plastic sheets or a garbage bag and according to Yasu, after about 15 minutes you should be able to print, woo hoo! I have also done the paper dampening thing by brushing water on the back of the printing paper, every sheet for thick paper, every other sheet for thin paper, and placing between damp blotters inside plastic. I know what some of you experts will say, but what can I tell you, other experts have told me otherwise - And Dan, forget about the speedball for hanga, get some pigments or at least some tubes of watercolor or gouache! happy printing! ------------------------------ From: Printmaker Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:34:07 +1100 Subject: [Baren 17530] taking the plunge Dan said "Linoleum doesn't work that well, at least with dampened paper and Speedball ink rolled on to the block. Yuk. If anyone knows how to do this with lino blocks, I have six carved already and a key block (P.S. They are carved deep enough to allow for the technique), and would love to complete the print the way it was intended." Your problem is the speedball ink, Dan. I use lino, and a brayer, and OILY stuff. It works just fine on dry paper with the ball bearing baren. I have yet to find a water based ink that is any good, but that is largely to do with our climate. The stuff dries on the slab, dries on the roller and prints like a dog's breakfast after its been through the dog. And the speedball oily ink isn't much better. And the other trick is to sand the blocks smooth, then degrease them with metholated spirits before you ink and print them. josie ------------------------------ From: "pwalls1234" Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:29:24 -0600 Subject: [Baren 17531] ball bearing baren >Your problem is the speedball ink, Dan. I use lino, and a >brayer, and OILY stuff. It works just fine on dry paper with >the ball bearing baren. JOSIE and everyone else, Tell me about these ball bearing barens? Someone mentioned I could use these for monoprints and large woodcuts. I use the oily stuff and usually combine press with handprinting. pete LSU pwalls1234@i-55.com ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V18 #1764 *****************************