Baren Digest Saturday, 8 June 2002 Volume 19 : Number 1854 ------------------------------------------------------------ From: G Wohlken Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 10:59:57 -0400 Subject: [Baren 18241] Re: Baren Digest V19 #1853 Maria, thanks for the visit report. I've heard good things about Carol Lyon from everyone who's met her. It seems like a number of Bareners are traveling right now and maybe that's why the forum is kind of quiet. When folks gets back we'll hopefully learn about the world of printmakers out there from everyone's direct experience. I have a question. The v-parting tool? Does everyone use theirs? Can these be used for outlines, or is it better to use the knife? Of course, since James Mundie got me interested in cutting with razor blades, I tend to use those as often (maybe more than) as my knife for outlining. Gayle Ohio, USA ------------------------------ From: "Cathryn BACKER" Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 23:12:49 +0800 Subject: [Baren 18242] tools Hi all, Gayle asked if people use a v-parting tool for outlines. I use a Stanley = knife to cut outlines first then use the V tool. That way I can achieve = very clean fine lines. Cheers Cathryn Tom Price, West Australia. ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 10:18:33 -0500 Subject: [Baren 18243] Re: Baren Digest V19 #1853 Hi, Gayle! I frequently use the V-gouge as a sort of double "TO" (pronounced 'toe' -- it's the staight skew bladed knife generally used for cutting the edges -- I've never tried razor blades, but I do often use a razor knife to cut the edges of my kento (carved registration seats) instead of my kento. I sharpen my V-gouges in a different way than the factory usually does -- I recall reading that Julio Rodrigues also sharpens this way -- I sharpen so that the top of the V protrudes at about a 45 degree angle in front of the bottom of the V. This has the effect of compressing the wood fibers down as I cut, and makes a very clean cut which resists tear-out. It also makes it MUCH easier to push the gouge through the wood. The 'to' is better for cutting the insides of corners, of course, but the V-gouge does the job twice as fast as the to in certain areas (since it requires only a single cut instead of two) on long edges. I usually use a U-gouge first to clear out the non-printing surfaces quite close to the edge which will print, then use the V-gouge to shave down to the line, using only the inside edge of the V-gouge as if it were a "push" to. But it is often faster, easier, and more accurate to just pull the to along the edge and then turn the block 180 degrees and clear the cut with a second pass of the to. Mike At 10:59 AM 6/7/2002 -0400, you wrote: >I have a question. The v-parting tool? Does everyone use theirs? Can >these be used for outlines, or is it better to use the knife? Of course, >since James Mundie got me interested in cutting with razor blades, I tend >to use those as often (maybe more than) as my knife for outlining. > >Gayle >Ohio, USA Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon@mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: "Linda" Date: Fri, 7 Jun 200209:06:18 -0700 Subject: [Baren 18244] Re: Baren Digest V19 #1853 From: "G Wohlken" > I have a question. The v-parting tool? Does everyone use theirs? Can > these be used for outlines, or is it better to use the knife? Of > course, since James Mundie got me interested in cutting with razor > blades, I tend to use those as often (maybe more than) as my knife for > outlining. Gayle, I couldn't live without my v-parting tools! I have an assortment of sizes in straight and spoon bent and one of my most used tools I have. I use them to outline larger areas which will be removed and to cut fine delicate lines. This is the way I learned to do relief carving, which is basically woodblock cutting with more roundness. As to whether it's better than a knife, to me it is. I tried once to use a knife and I hated it. My hands got cramps and I didn't feel I had the control I had with the parting tool. My main v-tool is a palm gouge so it fits nicely in my palm and cuts without effort. I know some people say you get a cleaner line with a knife (or razor blade) but I'm not convinced. If the v-tool is sharp, it will cut clean lines even cross-grain in cherry and pine. But it has to be sharp, sharp sharp. (Unfortunately, small v-tools are such a pain to sharpen.) Regards, Linda www.lmhornbeger.com ------------------------------ From: Shireen Holman Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 12:02:47 -0400 Subject: [Baren 18245] Re: Baren Digest V19 #1853 I use a knife for cutting outlines, but I use several different sizes of v gouges for making just plain lines, both straight and curved. They work beautifully. Shireen >From: "G Wohlken" > > > I have a question. The v-parting tool? Does everyone use theirs? Can > > these be used for outlines, or is it better to use the knife? Of > > course, since James Mundie got me interested in cutting with razor > > blades, I tend to use those as often (maybe more than) as my knife for > > outlining. *********************************************** Shireen Holman, Printmaker and Book Artist email: shireenh@earthlink.net http://www.shireenholman.com *********************************************** ------------------------------ From: "Wanda Robertson" Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:10:32 -0700 Subject: [Baren 18246] RE: Scotland trek The tour bus to Loch Ness & through the Highlands was truly wonderful. The weather was clear & sunny & we had the rare pleasure of seeing Ben Nevis all the way to the top! We didn't see "Nessie" but maybe next time. All the bad rap about the food sure didn't match with our experience, though. The food has all been excellent. And did I say how nice the people are? This afternoon we visited with people at the Edinburgh Printmakers. What a wonderful studio they have to work in. And such wonderful stuff they are turning out! A must on any visit to Edinburgh I think! Wanda ------------------------------ From: slinders@attbi.com Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 14:51:49 -0500 Subject: [Baren 18247] Firefighter's prints...chatty off-topic! Hi, everyone! I'll add a bit of news, since the list has been rather quiet. Our Art/Music secretary at Harper College has been an enthusiastic fan of the Firefighters' exhibit. She has purchased two of the prints, and has been most helpful in the collecting of funds for the prints that were sold at the college. She took Lezle William's moving print (the one with the blind printing of the image of the Twin Towers) to be framed, and everyone in the shop gathered around to see it. They loved it and suggested ways to frame it--and did a beautiful job!) The framer who did the work commented that he cried every time that he saw the print, and wanted information on the prints. Our secretary's cousin, AL KIEFER, is a Chicago Firefighter who has organized and initiated a Chicago to New York fund-raising bike ride that is now in progress. On Memorial Day there was a send-off party. The print had been purchased and framed to give to him on this occasion, and she said that he had tears spilling from his eyes when he saw it. This group of firefighters is now on it's way to New York from Chicago by bike. They have raised $816,000 thus far! You can follow their progress on their site. Everyone does what they can... Best wishes! Sharen ------------------------------ From: "John Cleverdon" Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:59:01 -0700 Subject: [Baren 18248] Re: Baren Digest V19 #1853 Gayle in Ohio asked: " I have a question. The v-parting tool? Does everyone use theirs? Can these be used for outlines, or is it better to use the knife?..." I almost never use a V-gouge. I prefer the knife for outlining smooth shapes, whether straight or curved. Sometimes I'll use a small straight chisel, which I push down and rock back & forth. Sometimes I use a utility knife. Occasionally I use a wood chisel and a rubber mallet for outlining and cutting out large rectilinear areas. When I first started doing woodcuts the only tools I had were a V-gouge (which I broke almost immediately), a C-gouge, a 1/2" wood chisel, a small mallet, and a pocket knife. So I got in the habit of not using V-gouges. John Point Clear, AL. ------------------------------ From: Daniel Dew Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 16:07:42 -0400 Subject: [Baren 18249] Re: Baren Digest V19 #1853 O.K., everyone that has a v-gouge they don't want, I'll take it! I almost never use anything but a v-gouge, but then again, I'm a detail freak, so go figure...... Dan Dew > Gayle in Ohio asked: " I have a question. The v-parting tool? Does > everyone use theirs? > I almost never use a V-gouge. ------------------------------ From: "marilynn smih" Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 13:29:36 -0700 Subject: [Baren 18250] Re: Baren Digest V19 #1842 I am running a few weeks behind due to traveling from baja. Thanks to those who scanned and put together the firemans display. But I have a small correction. The town in Washington I live in is Nahcotta, not Willapa Bay. Our house sits on land where Willapa Bay is my back yard, but definitely it is Nahcotta, Washington. Thanks for the work on #12. I made an error sending out my prints a bit early and I do not think they were quite dry , my apologies to all. For furture reference be certain they are dry before you stack them and mail them or they will smudge to the print below them. It was winter in the pacific northwest and the area they were drynig in was not heated, so it was damp, I thought they were dry, again sorry. Marilynn Smith ------------------------------ From: "Maria Arango" Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:55:49 -0700 Subject: [Baren 18251] v-gouges Hmmm, I'm with the V-gouge crowd and almost never use my toh for anything except kento marks if I use them. I almost never use kentos carved on the block either, but prefer to use the entire block for the image and use a kento jig to register. I'll trade someone two tohs for two v-gouges? I do have v and u gauges of every size, from large clearing tools all the way down to 1 mm. Interesting the different views on using or not using the v-gouge. Here are a few questions for discussion. Is the use of the toh more geared toward water-based woodblock as it leaves sharper edges? Are cuts done with toh deeper than with the v-gouge? If neither of those are true, what is the main advantage of using the toh? Sharper curves? Inquiring minds want to know! Dan, I also do detail work, but my understanding is that you can probably get more detail using the toh than not, as attested by some traditional Japanese works or Dave's and Jim's work. My reasoning for using v and u gouges directly is that I tend to "draw" with my tools with less and less preparatory drawing on the blocks. I also tend to like the tool marks as well, using the typical gouge-like marks in many a design. Hey, in Kansas 2003 perhaps I can learn to use my toh properly with some guidance. Are we planning a toh-intensive workshop? Maria, toh-less in Vegas <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Maria Arango Las Vegas, Nevada, USA http://www.1000woodcuts.com maria@mariarango.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------------ From: "Philip Smith" Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:29:22 -0700 Subject: [Baren 18252] V-Tool I'm from another school of thought. I use a chip carving knife to outline and a shallow gouge for clearing. For me there's nothing like the feel of a really sharp chip carving knife cutting into a nice piece of pine. 'Something to try. Philip Hammond, OR USA ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 18:32:41 EDT Subject: [Baren 18253] Re: Baren Digest V19 #1853 i use extremely hard wood hard maple the viener works easier than a knive for me . i use the smallest "v" i can find for details thus i can get details almost as good as a course wood engraving.. i personally love maple for the details. john ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 18:34:33 EDT Subject: [Baren 18254] Re: Firefighter's prints...chatty off-topic! way cool sharon ------------------------------ From: "Carole Baker" Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 20:22:34 -0800 Subject: [Baren 18255] Re:some hanga printing problems Greetings, I have some questions for the hanga experts out there. IÕve been lurking for most of the year since discovering Baren, but am going to make up for my lack of postings now. I am having a big problem with the pigments ÒbleedingÓ into the area around the edge of the printed area. This happens after I have printed several layers of lighter values, and happens pretty immediately, as soon as I lift the print off the block. I realize that my paper must be too wet as IÕve added moisture each time I print a color, though it could also be ÒbleedingÓ with the lighter values and just too faint to notice. The paper seems to be the right dampness when I start and if I let it dry out too much, it doesnÕt print well and the registration gets worse. IÕve started applying the paint as dry as I can which has helped somewhat, and varied the amount of paste (canÕt see that the amount of paste matters) but still have this problem. It seems inevitable that the prints that thus far had made the runs with no finger prints or blobs or upside down or backwards or really bad registration are the ones ruined with the migrating pigment. I have recently been using torinoko which I had learned the technique with. It is some that IÕve had for a long time and canÔt remember where I got it. Guess it is shintorinoko as it is machine made, but is I believe one of the better grades.. Before that, for a while, I had been using some non-Japanese paper---had some good luck with Daniel Smith Archival paper, which is no longer made. The people at D. Smith said the closest thing to that paper that they sold is drawing and framing paper and I tried that but had the bleeding problem when IÕve used several layers of printing, and the paper didnÕt seem to flatten out as well particularly around the unprinted edges (even after drying under weights with blotters). I soaked every other sheet in water and stacked with every other one dry overnight . At around a dollar for a 20x30 sheet, IÕm still using it for proofing. If anyone has used such a paper and figured out how to flatten it out, IÕd like to know. It has some good points, for sure. I used it for the"Philodendron"(which really isn't a philodendron, but that is another story) print in the #11 exchange. Maybe spreading it out, taking out of the tight pile as DaveÕs instructions for Japanese paper would let it expand and maybe it would flatten out better. Back to the torinoko; When I started with the torinoko again I treated the paper the same way as the domestic papers and had the bleeding problem even worse . The next batch of prints I soaked and blotted and still had a lot of bleeding. It finally dawned on me that maybe I was washing away some of the sizing, but by this time I had exhausted my supply of torinoko. So I decided to try my new Yamaguchi paper and followed DaveÕs instructions to brush on the water etc. and I restacked after a few hours and set overnight. However, instead of using sheets of newspaper, I moistened blotters and also used those between every 5 sheets as I printed . I was thrilled with the printing until I came to my 8th and final printing(and some of those 8 had more than one applications of pigment) and it happened again.! I finally let the remainder dry out considerably and was able to call about half of them OK. IÕm wondering if maybe the blotters were making things too moist. How do they compare to using newspaper? And when you use newspaper, does the ink in the newspaper ever transfer to the print? This is terribly frustrating. What is really perplexing is that I am being consistent as I can be and some of them bleed and some donÕt. I am just unable to determine how wet they are before I print each; sort of a crapshoot. IÕm obviously doing something wrong. Can anybody help? Any advise would be appreciated. Hopefully, IÕve given enough detail here where someone might figure out what IÕm doing wrong. IÕm using tube watercolors (various brands) , sumi ink (in a plastic squeeze container that I purchased from McClainÔs) and rice paste also purchased from McClainÕs. I used a birch plywood of some sort that someone gave to me and applied a half and half mixture of varnish and paint thinner with 400 grit sandpaper a couple of days before cutting. Also, I noticed when I began printing with the Yamaguchi paper, that some of it was heavier than other. This isnÕt very apparent when it is dry, but when wetted , the heavier (maybe ust heavier sizing?) remains lighter in color and wasnÕt as limp and also didnÔt Òbleed.Ó I would be interested to know, is this a common thing with this paper ? I remember reading in the Baren archives somewhere about getting rid of the little blobs, but canÕt find that now. CanÕt remember what the term used for them was. If someone could tell me what that term is, maybe I can find some answers to that problem, because most of the prints that I donÕt ruin with the bleeding seem to have those blobs. The last time I felt this frustrated with the process was after carving and printing a reduction print and the paper molded just before the final printing. I didn't touch my printing things for a couple of years, but thanks to Baren I'm back at it. I subscribe to the digested version of Baren. I 'm not sure if that makes any difference,, but if you don't understand my problem and want to ask me a question for clearification,, you can send to me at caroleb@gustavus.ak.us or caroleterrybaker@hotmail.com and I could probably answer you sooner or if you want you could answer directly. Any and all advise will be appreciated. Thankyou, Carole (with an "e") One more question: What is a "bleed print"? . I see it to referred to in Baren and it seems to be something that is done on purpose. ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V19 #1854 *****************************