Baren Digest              Friday, 20 December 2002      Volume 21 : Number 2065


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From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 07:55:12 -0600
Subject: [Baren 20160] Paper Conservation and Restoration 

 Dear Jack,

Is there a book, books, or other resources you can recommend for paper 
restoration?  I'm particularly interested in materials and techniques for 
conservation and restoration of antique Japanese woodblock prints...  a) 
removal of 'dirt' from paper surface  b) removal of foxing spots c) treat / 
repair / retard 'toning'

I'd appreciate any direction you can offer.  Have a warm and happy holiday!

Thanks,

Mike


Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com  

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From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 08:39:38 -0600
Subject: [Baren 20161] Dan Kitchen's hanga questions 

At 10:10 PM 12/18/2002 -0800, Dan Kitchen wrote:

>I was wondering if watercolor pigment in tube for can be substituted for 
>the powdered pigments used in moku hanga?  If they were treated the same 
>way and used the same paste additive would they be acceptable?  Also, what 
>does the glue do?  I am assuming it is acting as sort of medium/binding 
>agent, I have seen that somewhere on Baren that the glue is somewhat 
>debated as to it's true purpose.


Dear Dan,

Here's _my_ take on your questions...  Watercolor in tubes _can_ be used to 
good effect.  The only drawback to using prepared watercolor is that it is 
considerably more costly than powdered pigments, but also presents less 
health hazard (don't breathe that powder!) and it's more convenient.  A 
number of the more experienced moku-hanga printers on Baren use pigment 
dispersions -- costlier than powder but cheaper than prepared watercolor -- 
the powder has already been ground and dispersed into water or 
water/alcohol -- that way there's no danger from dust, but the dispersions 
generally don't have any binder, so people add gum arabic or gum arabic and 
glycerine (some also add honey) -- search our archives and the encyclopedia 
and you'll learn exactly what several others do.  Supply sources can be 
found at 
http://www.barenforum.org/encyclopedia/entries/007_04/007_04_frame.html

The 'glue' (actually, we usually use nishiki=rice paste) is usually used as 
a 'vehicle' for the pigment -- the paste is usually mixed with water to the 
consistency of heavy cream and is much more viscous than water (also a 
'vehicle' for the pigment).  'Usually' a little pigment is dabbed onto a 
dab of paste on the dampened block and all are mixed together using a brush 
just prior to dropping the paper and pulling a print.  There are a LOT of 
factors which influence how the color goes into the paper, but generally 
speaking, as the amount of paste decreases, the pigment particles tend to 
'flock' together more and print with a decidedly grainy texture called goma 
or goma-zuri -- rice grains.  As the amount of paste increases (and the 
pigment particles are dispersed evenly into a thicker and more viscous 
layer of paste), the graininess disappears (maybe the pigment particles are 
prevented from migrating together by the more viscous paste) and with 
enough paste and a thick enough film, 'brush strokes' appear.  Another way 
to describe this is that the addition of paste helps you achieve the 
application of an even tone in a single pass, but increases the tendency 
for your brush to leave its signature as the viscous paste tends to 
'remember' the ridges and valleys left as the brush combs through it and 
the thicker parts contain more pigment and therefore print darker.

Gee it's hard to articulate this stuff -- I feel like I'm failing 
miserably!  Different pigments have different characteristics, so 
experience really will have to guide you.  Get your paper and blocks damp 
and try this:  print several sheets in a pale color using only water as 
your 'vehicle' and also try over-printing a few sheets with the same 
water-only mix.  Then print several sheets in the same depth of color mixed 
into a lot of paste on the block and I think you'll see the difference 
right away.  Personally, when I want to print a REALLY intense color, I 
tend to reduce the amount of paste and when I want to print a really SMOOTH 
color, I tend to increase the amount of paste.

With any luck, you'll get better answers from other printers, too and you 
may be able to intuit the 'truth' from all our different ideas...
:-)

- -- Mike

PS -- are you the "Dan Kitchen" pictured at 
http://dailytitan.fullerton.edu/issues/spring_02/05_17/news/couplecombines.html ??



Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com  

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From: "Jeanne N. Chase" <studiojnc#prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:18:22 -0500
Subject: [Baren 20162] Re Using blocks 

An ethical question;
If you have a block that has been carved and used as is and if you want 
to incorporate this block into another block, is it ok?

For instance, I carved some cat blocks for cards years ago. I want to 
incorporate the cats into another block.

Nay or Yay

Jeanne N.


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From: "PHARE-CAMP,PATTI (HP-USA,ex1)" <patricia_phare-camp#hp.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:34:50 -0500
Subject: [Baren 20163] RE: Baren Digest V21 #2064 

>I scanned it and put it up on my web site for those whose copies got 
>lost in the mail: http://www.room535.org/misc/oldgoat.jpg Myron"

Thanks Myron!  I'm going to print it out, trimit then paste it to
my empty cart...Batti P-C


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From: G Wohlken <blueman#pantek.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:00:24 -0500
Subject: [Baren 20164] Lots of Hanga Questions 

No one wants to admit they are mathematically challenged, but I
guess I'm going to do it.  I'm having trouble figuring out what
size wood pieces to order from my man down the hill for  Exchange
15.  I have to figure in kento marks and I'm just about losing it
trying to figure exactly what I need.  The paper will be 5 x 15,
of course, but the wood is what? Let's say I want a one inch
border all around because I like big margins around the image. 
So how far in from the wood does the kento start?  My boards
would have to be what size?  If, say,  the kento starts a half
inch in from the bottom of the wood and I need a one inch margin
on the paper before the image starts, and my image would be, say,
 3 x 13, then would my boards be 5 1/2 inches by 15 1/2?   Also
can the top edge of the board be the top edge of the image?  You
don't  have to start carving the top edge of your image a little
from the top of the board,  do you?  The reason I ask is  I
notice on the hanga piece I did at Boot Camp, the top edge wasn't
my top edge of the image, but it seemed for some reason  the
border of the image was carved a little lower on the board.  Why
did I do that? I don't do that when I carve for oil-based ink
prints.

Also is there a way to put images on the board WITHOUT doing the
hanshita pastedown.  I'm also not a good consistent paster downer
of things.  It would be typical of me to paste one or two of them
crookedly, thereby messing up the registration.  The way I do it
with oil based is to carve a keyblock and print it and use the
still wet (the beauty of oil is it stays moist a long time giving
you lots of playtime) image to transfer onto other boards, and
it's very easy.  What would happen if I print the keyblock in oil
based ink onto the other boards like when I do oil based prints,
then carve them.  But from then on I use hanga methods? Would
that work?Lots

I'm also dreading carving the kento marks.  I did them crookedly
at Boot Camp because I am a crooked carver.    I think that's why
I have not gotten more involved with hanga; the mechanics that
have to be perfect.  Using a registration board and taping down
dry paper is much easier for people like me and it's  why I do
oil based ink prints. Also,  I like that the color I mix is the
color I get and it doesn't change when dry.

So, now that I said all that, I still am giving  hanga another
try and that's why I signed up. I just want to get over my
nervousness around the process.  People who are steady as a rock
in their carving and measuring and pasting skills are going to do
fine. People like me -- I just don't know.

Gayle Ohio




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From: "Jeanne N. Chase" <studiojnc#prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:51:45 -0500
Subject: [Baren 20165] Re: Lots of Hanga Questions 

Gayle

I sympathize with you, all of the problems you are having in trying to solve
sizes, kento marks, etc, are exactly what I am going through.
Although I have read David Bulls page on Hanga and watched Mike Lyons tape,
I am still befuddled.
I have the image ready but the spirit is still not willing!!!!

I am afraid I will go back to oil based blocks after this turmoil is over.

And thanks to all of you who answered my question about re using the block;
to David Stones, and Sharon. The block I am carving will really look much
different than the original block when I incorporate the two.

Also, want to mix the woodblock with monotype and etching. That is what
makes printmaking so adventurous!

Print on.

Oh, here comes the Hanga back to Haunt me.

Jeanne N.



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From: Julio.Rodriguez#walgreens.com
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:54:45 -0600
Subject: [Baren 20166] Re: Lots of Hanga Questions 

Gayle, regarding kento marks. I don't as much carve as I chisel my kento 
marks. A regular carpenter's straight blade chisel with a sharp edge 
should do the trick...1/2--1" blade width. Important thing is to draw your 
kento marks in correct alignment with your drawing....else the paper will 
be slightly off, crooked....I did that once....only off by a bit but 
enough so that my edges were off and my print crooked.. 

Try practicing on a spare piece of wood first. Just lineup the flat edge 
of your chisel with the inside part of the kento line and give it a good 
whack with a mallet to drive the chisel in 1-2 millimeters...then proceed 
to the opposite side of the kento line that makes the 90 degree angle and 
repeat the process. If your kento is large or your chisel is small...you 
can "walk" your chisel along the previosly cut line by starting your next 
cut with  1/2 of the chisel blade engaging into the previously cut. Once 
the lines are cut...I use the chisel to pare out the wood directly in 
front of the kento triangle......and then around the edges of the kento 
lines.

hope that gives you some ideas...Julio

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From: <Philip238#copper.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:15:59 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20167] Re: MDF print and Ink question

Dan...
Try sanding the surface before you do anything. And then have you tried
acrylic paints yet? Slightly thinned down.
Good luck,
Philip
Hammond, OR
USA

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From: Julio.Rodriguez#walgreens.com
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:36:31 -0600
Subject: [Baren 20168] Re: Lots of Hanga Questions 

Gayle, Jeanne  & others having trouble....let me point you to a set of 
photos of step-by-step how-to prepared by David...I go back to these often 
for a refresher.....On the first example you can get a real good look at 
the actual design steps and see how the kento relates to the overall 
image.

http://www.woodblock.com/encyclopedia/entries/000_09/000_09_frame.html

The first block of this next series is a solid background block...but 
starting with the second block you can see what I mean in the large 
photos...

http://www.woodblock.com/surimono/process/process_frame.html

In this third set of prints (ducks), you can still see some of the 
hanshita drawing and a preview into the original
drawing and outline for positioning the kento:

http://www.woodblock.com/surimono/process/process2_1.html

hope this helps a bit....is really not that hard once you get the hang-a 
of it......Julio

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From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <lbmason71#attbi.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:11:53 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20169] Gayles fears 

Gayle,
Go to a local hardware store and buy a large chisel, use it for the kento,
it will be straight. Mike cost $12 and is so worth it. Everyone in my class
used it.

Make your wood 6"wide and 16" long. Let the paper hang over on the two edges
opposite the kento if you need to have a wider border. This will give you
plenty of room to do a kento and have your image 5"x15" or a little smaller
and still have a large border.

If you get your copies pasted down crookedly, don't worry. If you think you
cannot cut a straight edge along the side that is a bit crooked, get a metal
straight edge, lay it on the line and gently carve a line next to it with an
exacto knife, just keep going over and over it until you get it deep enough.
If you do it gently there will be no problem with the rule moving.

Go for it girl!!!!
Barbara



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From: "Maria Diener (aka Arango)" <maria#mariarango.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:37:36 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20170] Re: Lots of Hanga Questions 

Okay, I'm going to throw a curve in this discussion and I confess I know not
what I talk about, forgive me...BUT!!!

I usually carve dry, print dry, often on dry paper. In the oily world, I
carve my "key" block (in quotes because it really isn't a key block but more
of a "guide" block"). Then I ink and place that block against a fixed
registration jig, print that block onto a fixed sheet of non-shrinkable
paper, switch the block and print paper on wood, and so on until my design
is transferred to every block. The "kentos" (in quotes because they are not
really carved on the block but on a jig against which the block is placed.

Now for hanga method, tradition dictates that I introduce uncontrollable
variables into my registration.
VARIABLE 1: The wood expands and contracts with humidity
VARIABLE 2: Each block is slightly different therefore it is likely to
expand and contract differently
VARIABLE 3: Each time I carve the same lines I am likely to not be exact,
speaking in micrometers
VARIABLES COMBINED: I'm supposed to carve the kentos exactly the same on
pieces of wood that are supposed to contract exactly the same...but when the
wood expands and contracts EACH kento is going to be off by a few
micros...but differently, HUH????
Never mind the pasting of the hanshita thing (more humidity, more
paper/block expanding contracting), which I am avoiding altogether by using
the laser transfer method from identical laser printouts.

My question: What would happen in moku-hanga if I use my usual jig, which
would eliminate variable 3 right off the bat and control at least one
portion of the shrinkage/expansion thing; and further, keep at least the
kento marks exactly in the same place throughout printing? It has always
seemed suicidal to me (although worthy of immense admiration) to have that
many variables and still come up with perfect registration.
With the jig method, the expansion and contraction of each individual block
would be easily corrected by sanding the block or adding masking tape to the
block so that it would be closer or farther from the kentos, respectively.

Somebody slap me...I'm almost sure I'm headed for disaster, but logically
so. And I will stand proudly behind my screwed up prints! :-)
Maria
<||><||><||><||><||><||>
     Maria Arango
  Las Vegas Nevada USA
  www.1000woodcuts.com
<||><||><||><||><||><||>

 

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From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <lbmason71#attbi.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:07:53 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20171] ooops 

That last post was supposed to say Mine was $12, not Mike.....sorry about
that. Is that what they call a freudian slip?????
Happy holidays all,
Barbara

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From: Jack Reisland <reislandj001#hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:47:55 -1000
Subject: [Baren 20172] Re: Lots of Hanga Questions 

Hello Maria,

   you can eliminate variables 1 and 2 by using plywood blocks instead
of solid wood. Plywood blocks will have VERY little expansion, and if
any, it will be consistent from block to block. Too bad the Baren Mall
doesn't yet carry Matsumura-san's hardwood plywood blocks.
  The hanshita step should not introduce any variables, because they are
printed on dry paper and glued on dry wood. If you are going to use
laser prints, check carefully that they are all the same size before you
use them, I found out (after carving, of course) that the same machine
can spit out copies one after another that are slightly different
dimensions.

Jack R.


------------------------------

From: "lmhtwb" <lmhtwb#prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:32:40 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20173] Re: Lots of Hanga Questions 


>    you can eliminate variables 1 and 2 by using plywood blocks instead
> of solid wood. Plywood blocks will have VERY little expansion, and if
> any, it will be consistent from block to block. Too bad the Baren Mall
> doesn't yet carry Matsumura-san's hardwood plywood blocks.


Hi Jack,

About plywood and expansion,...ahm, well what you say is true and not true.

Expansion in plywood depends on the types of wood used for the ply's versus
the surface, the glue type, and the overall size.  Obviously, the bigger the
block, the more noticeable is the expansion.  With glues, some are more
rigid than others so they will hamper any expansion -- stiff glue is one
factor in plywood seperation.  (Glue stays, wood moves, plywood unplies!)
And finally, if the inner ply's are different from the surface wood, then
'fun' things happen.  For example, take a plywood with an oak exterior on
one side and a poplar core, and when it gets wet, it either warps or the oak
cracks.  I've seen birch do the same thing, even with a birch core.

As for the consistency of expansion, since each wood and piece is unique,
with unique grain, they expansion is not consistent -- most people do not
get out their calipers and measure from one piece to another!  You can also
get some interesting thickness expansion from piece to piece, thanks to
grain lines.

One other fun factor in this wood expansion discussion is that Maria (and I)
live in the desert.  The humidity here is VERY low, so when she moistens
wood, any effects from the water will be magnified since the wood is
extremely dry.  When I lived in Iowa, woodblocks printed with water-based
inks didn't hardly expand, warp, or do anything.  In the desert, the same
block expands, warps, etc. enough for me to notice it.

(Hmm, wonder if that was enough to REALLY scare Maria?!  Hahaha!)

Linda


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End of Baren Digest V21 #2065
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