Baren Digest             Saturday, 21 December 2002     Volume 21 : Number 2067


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: G Wohlken <blueman#pantek.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:23:54 -0500
Subject: [Baren 20180] Transerring Keyblock to Color Blocks and a Sculpting Tools Query 

So, Carole, if I understand you correctly,  you ARE using oil based ink 
to put the image onto the color blocks, then after cleaning up, you  
carve the rest of those blocks, then print with the water/pigment/paste 
way of Moku Hanga and it WORKS?  This is good news.  Maria, isn't this 
good news?    Do you think it's the whiting that keeps the oil based ink 
from messing up the wood for hanga.  Have you already printed your hanga 
print and the pigment worked fine over the cleaned-up boards that had 
been first printed with oily ink?  I'm going to get a quilter's ruler 
today, as there is a good quilt store three miles down the road.

Lots of good details, Carole.  Everyone's being helpful and I greatly 
appreciate it.  

Here's another question.  If I made a details block (the one that kind 
of defines things), and I use that as a keyblock to make the other 
blocks.  When I actually print hanga style, can I print that details 
block last?  I like fresh dark outline color last of all.  That's how I 
do it with my oil based prints.  I use the key block to make the color 
blocks, but print the key block on top of the color blocks.  A dark 
mixture with some sumi black added would outline the other colors,  
wouldn't it?  I believe I did my spider print that way.  The spider 
himself was printed last on top of the other colors.      

* * *

One more question and this has to do with tools and it has to do with 
sculpting.  I have a son who sculpts stone, but wants to do that mainly 
in summer where he can work outside,  and for winter has decided to do 
wood sculpting.  What is a good set of tools for sculpting.  Anybody 
with some info on this can write to me off list.  

Thanks!

Gayle
Ohio

In response to Gayle's posting, Carole Baker wrote:


> as an alternative to the hanshita paste down, here's the way I do it.
>
>...I roll oil base ink onto the carved block including the 2 kento marks.
>Then print onto a good stiff  "vellum" tracing paper, or better yet, the
>frosty side of a sheet of mylar...using a baren.
>
>Off set this image including the edges of the kento marks to your 2nd block.
>Repeat for other blocks, re rolling on oily ink and printing on a new piece
>of tracing paper for each block.  I number each block and tracing sheet and
>save...
>
>I clean the ink off of the "key block" with paint thinner and use some
>whiting (I think thats the same thing as talc)
>
> After the other blocks are carved, I clean them off with paint thinner 
> and proof....


>
>
>I discovered a great tool when i was laying out my key block for the #15
>exchange. ..a quilters ruler...
>Hope this helps.
>
>  >




------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:32:10 -0600
Subject: [Baren 20181] Re: Lots of Hanga Questions

>...Just lineup the flat edge of your chisel with the inside part of the 
>kento line and give it a good whack with a mallet to drive the chisel in 
>1-2 millimeters...then proceed to the opposite side of the kento line that 
>makes the 90 degree angle and repeat the process. If your kento is large 
>or your chisel is small...you can "walk" your chisel along the previosly 
>cut line by starting your next cut with  1/2 of the chisel blade engaging 
>into the previously cut. Once the lines are cut...I use the chisel to pare 
>out the wood directly in front of the kento triangle......and then around 
>the edges of the kento lines.


Just to add my own 'thoughts and techniques' for kento carving.  I think 
that the standard bevel on western chisels is generally too big an angle 
for effective carving of kento marks.  Also the edge must be kept straight 
and extrememely sharp or the cut across the grain will tend to break the 
wood fibers instead of cutting them.  Compression of the wood fibers is 
also to be avoided, as the wood has a 'memory' and will puff back out a bit 
altering registration a few hundredths of an inch.  I place the flat side 
of the chisel on the line so that it faces away from the image and get best 
results when I tilt the chisel so that it appears that it will slightly 
undercut the kento (handle leans over the image a bit) then I use my hand 
to push the chisel in a bit, or tap it with a mallet so that it penetrated 
only slightly deeper than the thickness of my paper.  I want enough of a 
lip so that the corner of my paper 'bumps' up against the kento solidly, 
but shallow enough so that my thumb tip easily holds the paper down on the 
top 'shelf' of the kento while dropping -- if I cut the kento too deep, it 
is much more difficult to 'feel' when the paper is properly seated and very 
easy to push the paper out of its seat while holding it down... also the 
surface of the block tends to hold my thumbtip up out of the corner kento 
and prevent me from holding the paper in place.

I often forego the chisel and use my break-away sectional bladed box cutter 
to make the shallow vertical cuts outlining the kento and then use my VERY 
sharp chisel to gently shave away the interior of the kento to the desired 
depth (just a bit deeper than the thickness of my paper).

By the way, the smaller the kento, the tighter the registration -- except 
that the kento can be too small so that the paper easily compresses making 
registration.  Somewhere between 3/16" and 5/16" on each side seems to be 
just about 'right' to me.

By the way, there are several beautiful hanga examples up for auction now 
through Sunday at http://www.kotobuki.de in Munich.  Especially check out 
these prints which were completed not so long ago:

http://www.kotobuki.de/Obj2.aspx?Size=1&ObjID=2370 by Clifton Karhu, 1976
http://www.kotobuki.de/Obj2.aspx?Size=1&ObjID=2366 by Junichiro Sekino, 
undated (mid 20th C)

There's a Chicago dealer who specializes in shin-hanga and sosaku-hanga 
with hundreds of beautiful examples of relatively recent moku-hanga for 
sale at http://www.floatingworld.com/docs/index.asp -- click on shin-hanga 
or sosaku-hanga in the middle of the top 1/4 of the page to view a lot of 
great examples...  They are having a sale on 60 tiny (like about 2" x 3") 
moku-hanga from around 1930 by Hiroaki Shotei at 
http://www.floatingworld.com/docs/cat_Results.asp?wrk_Exhibition=HiroakiMini - -- 
they are generally beautifully printed and are really charming little 
jewels for around $20 to $40 each -- worth a peek!

- -- Mike



------------------------------

From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <lbmason71#attbi.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 08:00:40 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20182] whiting 

Gayle,
Anything will work instead of whiting...I use baby powder. It just needs to
be chalky enough to stick to the ink and seal the surface. Probably corn
starch or ??????

If you are using oil based ink, be sure it is a fairly stiff ink so you get
your crisp edges. I use litho ink with some setswell in it for my oil based
ink but think anything would work. I see no reason this would not work with
waterbased inks after....I have long gone between oil and water for the same
blocks and plates with no problems at all, even with plexiglas. I think
whoever made the original rules must have tried one print and stopped. Of
course you need to clean the blocks well and if the water based ink really
beads up, sand them lightly with 600 grit paper. I have done it many, many
times.

On a different note I have just received all 12 colors of the new intaglio
akua kolor water soluble etching ink, haven't had time to try it yet but
will let everyone know what I think as soon as I do. If it works as well as
the black, I may just give up oils......well, maybe not all together.

 As far as printing the key block last, that is traditional in oil based
inks as it covers you sins, in waterbased inks it is printed first so you
can be sure all lines up with it, I thinnk we use a lot more blocks with
water soluble ink and need this exact registration with the key....I think
you could print it once at the beginning and again at the end if you
wished....but if it is good black ink, you probably won't need to print
again at the end. All the transparent colors that might ovelap the black
just seem to disappear into it.

I found it strange to print the key block first when I started doing this
kind of work, but now it seems the way to go, so I think it is just a matter
of getting used to doing it this way. You can ertainly see right away if you
have made an error with a color block, then I usually decide I meant to do
it that way...Unlike Dave I am not into just carving another block! Whatever
we do all the time seems the right way....we are such sheep (creatures of
habit?) or is that old goats???Heheheheh
Best to all,
Barbara



------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:39:59 -0600
Subject: [Baren 20183] Re: Lots of Hanga Questions 

 At 12:32 PM 12/19/2002 -0800, Linda H wrote:

>As for the consistency of expansion, since each wood and piece is unique,
>with unique grain, they expansion is not consistent -- most people do not
>get out their calipers and measure from one piece to another!  You can also
>get some interesting thickness expansion from piece to piece, thanks to
>grain lines.


Linda Hornberger has probably forgotten more about wood characteristics 
than I'll ever know, but as a practical matter for printing moku-hanga, my 
personal opinion is that beginners shouldn't concern themselves too much 
with shrinkage questions.  Just use decent plywood that you can carve 
easily, and _maybe_ that has grain characteristics you find pleasing.  If 
you _do_ find some plywood which warps or splits during hanga use, don't 
use that kind any more (I haven't found that kind yet, myself).

For most of us, registration problems will be PRIMARILY the result of (in 
order of frequency / importance)
1) our failure to accurately carve the kento
2) our failure to consistently place and drop the paper during printing
3) changes in the moisture content and therefore the size of our PAPER
4) inconsistent or improper initial placement and movement of the baren
5) changes in the moisture content and therefore the size of our blocks
6) other mysterious stuff

You can easily recognize when registration problems are caused by shrinkage 
and expansion inconsistencies because registration will be dead-on accurate 
nearest the kento and will gradually deteriorate more and more as distance 
from the kento increases.  If the out-of-register is all-over the print, it 
probably isn't due to shrinkage or expansion.

After you print moku-hanga for a while, you will discover from your own 
experience that wood does not expand or contract much in if at all along 
the grain, but does expand and contract across the grain (trees don't get 
shorter as they dry out, but they do get skinnier) Also, radial 
shrinkage/expansion (quarter sawn wood or wood where the face lies more or 
less along a radius of the tree -- close together parallel grain lines) in 
most species is much less than tangential shrinkage/expansion (plank sawn 
wood or wood where the face lies more or less along a tangent to the center 
of the tree -- wavy widely spaced grain lines).  So if you want to 
absolutely minimize dimensional changes as a factor in your prints, all 
blocks should be quarter sawn from the same species and be cut with the 
grain running parallel to the long dimension of the block.

David Bull once suggested that we experiment with our woods and papers by 
carefully drawing a pencil line parallel to the long direction of the piece 
and another parallel to the short dimension of the piece.  Draw a mark at 
each end of each line and accurately measure and record the distance 
between the marks on the dry piece(s).  Then dampen the piece(s) as you 
would during printing and measure and record the distances a second 
time.  Keep the piece(s) damp for a while and measure and record 
again.  Let the pieces dry and measure and record again.  Keep this kind of 
record along with other notes and characteristics for each of your woods 
and papers.

I wish I'd actually done this!  :-)

- -- Mike


Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com  

------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:44:08 -0600
Subject: [Baren 20184] Re: Hanga Registration and Kentos 

At 05:07 PM 12/19/2002 -0500, Gayle wrote:

>I think my way of printing onto succeeding blocks is Maria's way.  But you 
>hanga experienced people don't think we could put the carved guide board 
>(which will  have been rolled up with black oil based ink) into the el 
>shaped registration jig, then print that image  onto paper that has been 
>taped down the left hand side of the registration board, and leave that 
>paper taped down there after it is printed so we can print the image 
>(which is now on that paper) onto each of the other boards that will be 
>needed for the print we will be doing,  then afterward  switch to hanga 
>mode (after these new boards are carved) and print them all from then on 
>in the hanga way?  We could still carve kentos into that first board and 
>they would then be printed onto the succeeding boards. What would not work 
>about this?


I think that what you have described _would_ work just fine!  One 
suggestion for you to avoid any possible problem...  Be sure that the inky 
part you print onto the blocks is the part you want to carve away, not the 
part you want printed.  And it seems to me that this would be pretty easy, 
as you could then 'white line' your design very quickly and transfer your 
oily-print to each of your blocks.  Include your kento registration marks 
and the outline of the printing area on the original block so it's on each 
of your color blocks.  I like the idea!

- -- Mike


Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com  

------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:56:38 -0600
Subject: [Baren 20185] Re: Registration and Puzzle 

At 02:28 PM 12/19/2002 -0800, Maria Arango Diener wrote:

>I acquired some wintergreen oil from my pharmacy and have used it to
>transfer. It works excellent. But I'm still sold on the lacquer thinner
>transfers, I figured one sniff every 2 years or so won't kill me any sooner
>than the fumes of the city.


I have used both wintergreen oil and lacquer thinner.  I can't STAND the 
smell of wintergreen oil anymore!  Although is does dissolve the toner very 
well, that stuff is PERSISTENT and the smell seems to NEVER goes away.  My 
eyes are watering and my head is aching just thinking about it!  You have 
to wear an organic solvents mask and use an exhaust fan.

Lacquer thinner is very bad for your liver and may cause cancer.  But it 
works the best.  You have to wear an organic solvents mask and use an 
exhaust fan.  I've used it a lot.  I worry about my liver, and getting 
cancer though.

Carbon paper works fine, too, but isn't as accurately repeatable.  You 
include registration marks on your original drawing and transfer the lines 
to each block using carbon paper by drawing over the lines on your original.

Or...  You 'could' use the hundreds of years old hanshita method 
(professional Japanese carvers and printers have used that method for so 
long -- their prints are proof positive of fantastic registration between 
many blocks)...

The Baren Mall offers Woodlike Matsumura's laser-printable two-ply hanshita 
for a reasonable price for those who are uncertain about peeling the 
hanshita.  A thick carrier with an extremely thin layer temporarily 
attached.  Laser print it and then paste it to your block and peel away the 
thick carrier paper.  Voila!  No rubbing necessary, you are ready to simply 
carve, clean and print.

- -- Mike


Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com  

------------------------------

From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <lbmason71#attbi.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:27:36 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20186] Fw: prints for sale 

Sharri and I found a few woodblock prints at a Japanese import store in the
 Pearl district the other day, on the corner of Everett and NE 10th...I
think
 it was called Conception or Connections or something like that. So if
anyone
 in Portland would like to see the real thing, go take a look. They are
nice,
 nothing on the scale of Dave's work. Fat lines, but lots of blocks and nice
 work.
 best to all,
 Barbara

------------------------------

From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan#uvic.ca>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:43:00 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20187] Re: Registration and Puzzle 

And do not forget the use of a hot iron to transfer laser printed material 
to the wood. Just place the laser copy face down on the wood block. Then 
use a good hot iron to go over the back of the paper ... you know, a 
standard electric clothes iron on high, but not on the steam setting.Do a 
little experiment so you will avoid scorching the paper and/or the block. 
The toner on a laser printed copy is heat set. The iron will remelt the 
toner, and some of it will fuse to the block, transferring the image. No 
smell, no toxic chemicals, no cancer, no liver damage .......... This one 
does work ... at least for me.

Now, it also occurs to me that ink from ink jet printers is water soluble, 
and at least on mine, it is rewettable. That is a pain when you are 
carrying documents in the rain, or when you sneeze on your term paper. But 
couldn't you use that to transfer an image to a block? Why not print the 
image with an ink jet printer. Put it face down on the block. Then rub the 
back of the print with a damp sponge, just as you would with lacquer 
thinner or wintergreen oil when transferring a laser print. Has anyone 
tried this????

Remember ... damage from toxic exposure is cumulative ... a little lacquer 
thinner may do only a little damage, but it is ADDED to all the other 
damage, e.g., from fumes of the city. The old backpacking adage "Take care 
of the ounces and the pounds will take care of themselves" applies very 
well to toxic exposure. Avoid every bit of it you can.

Cheers ......... Charles

At 10:56 AM 12/20/02 -0600, you wrote:

>At 02:28 PM 12/19/2002 -0800, Maria Arango Diener wrote:

>>I acquired some wintergreen oil from my pharmacy and have used it to
>>transfer. It works excellent. But I'm still sold on the lacquer thinner
>>transfers, I figured one sniff every 2 years or so won't kill me any sooner
>>than the fumes of the city.

>
>I have used both wintergreen oil and lacquer thinner.  I can't STAND the 
>smell of wintergreen oil anymore!  Although is does dissolve the toner 
>very well, that stuff is PERSISTENT and the smell seems to NEVER goes 
>away.  My eyes are watering and my head is aching just thinking about 
>it!  You have to wear an organic solvents mask and use an exhaust fan.
>
>Lacquer thinner is very bad for your liver and may cause cancer.  But it 
>works the best.  You have to wear an organic solvents mask and use an 
>exhaust fan.  I've used it a lot.  I worry about my liver, and getting 
>cancer though.
>
>Carbon paper works fine, too, but isn't as accurately repeatable.  You 
>include registration marks on your original drawing and transfer the lines 
>to each block using carbon paper by drawing over the lines on your original.
>
>Or...  You 'could' use the hundreds of years old hanshita method 
>(professional Japanese carvers and printers have used that method for so 
>long -- their prints are proof positive of fantastic registration between 
>many blocks)...
>
>The Baren Mall offers Woodlike Matsumura's laser-printable two-ply 
>hanshita for a reasonable price for those who are uncertain about peeling 
>the hanshita.  A thick carrier with an extremely thin layer temporarily 
>attached.  Laser print it and then paste it to your block and peel away 
>the thick carrier paper.  Voila!  No rubbing necessary, you are ready to 
>simply carve, clean and print.
>
>-- Mike
>
>
>Mike Lyon
>mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
>http://www.mlyon.com



------------------------------

From: "Liz Horton" <liz.horton#att.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:03:17 -0500
Subject: [Baren 20188] Late horsies... 

My first batch of horses is off the presses and heading out into the world
this weekend...the rest to follow within days...Now I won't feel guilty
signing up for the sheep! Thanks to everyone for the beautiful 2002 horses.
Each one is magnificent!

Happy holidays,
Liz Horton


------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 12:38:16 -0600
Subject: [Baren 20189] Re: Dan Kitchen's hanga questions 

 Mike Lyon wrote:

>The 'glue' (actually, we usually use nishiki=rice paste) is usually used 
>as a 'vehicle' for the pigment -- the paste is usually mixed with water to 
>the consistency of heavy cream and is much more viscous than water (also a 
>'vehicle' for the pigment).


OOPS!  A kind person wrote me to say that "Nishiki" is not Japanese for 
"rice paste".  Nishiki is a word I read all the time because Japanese 
prints used to be called "nishiki-e" which means "brocade picture".

Some time ago, I purchased some "NISHIKI" brand rice paste (comes in a 
pretty aqua tube with a yellow cap) which says "NISHIKI" in big raised 
English letters on one side and in big raised Japanese on the other.  There 
are lots of brands of rice paste and you can (so I'm told) even make your 
own.  Anyway, between reading "nishiki-e" all the time in books on Ukiyo-e 
and seeing "NISHIKI" on the side of my paste tube all day while printing, I 
think that (like Xerox used to mean photo-copy) nishiki came to mean 
rice-paste...  but only in _my_ mind!  :-)

The rest of what I had to say about printing was pretty accurate, I think, 
except that I omitted any recipe for making dry pigment into 'ink' -- 
nikawa is the name for an animal-based glue (similar in property to rabbit 
skin glue) sold in sticks that you dissolve in hot water and add to the 
pigment - it helps keep the colors from running when printed.  But now I'm 
just repeating what I've read and been told, as I've never mixed dry 
pigments myself.

- -- Mike


Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com  

------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:31:08 -0600
Subject: [Baren 20190] Re: Registration and Puzzle 

 Charlse Morgan wrote:

>Now, it also occurs to me that ink from ink jet printers is water soluble, 
>and at least on mine, it is rewettable. That is a pain when you are 
>carrying documents in the rain, or when you sneeze on your term paper. But 
>couldn't you use that to transfer an image to a block? Why not print the 
>image with an ink jet printer. Put it face down on the block. Then rub the 
>back of the print with a damp sponge, just as you would with lacquer 
>thinner or wintergreen oil when transferring a laser print. Has anyone 
>tried this????


Yes, I've done a "TON" of inkjet transfers...  I haven't tried it, but I 
don't believe the 'sponge' method would work very well -- the inks are VERY 
runny and the paper would buckle and be uncooperative -- it'd be a mess, I 
think.

Inkjet ink water- olubility depends on the ink -- some are re-soluble and 
some aren't (also paper -- uncoated papers usually release better) -- 
Canon's works very well -- HP's is pretty permanent and doesn't transfer 
well.  You easily tell whether the ink-jet prints will transfer -- drip 
some water onto an inkjet print and if the colors immediately run like 
crazy, leaving the paper more or less 'white' underneath, it'll work 
well.  My method:  I dampen some blotter paper with water and use my press 
to 'squeeze' the water from the blotter through the inkjet print onto the 
(must be absorbent for this method) material I'm transferring the image 
onto.  Two warnings: 1) because this method uses water and paper it is NOT 
going to be an answer for maintaining registration between blocks 'printed' 
in this manner and 2) unless specifically marked "UV" the colors fade 
dramatically over time with exposure to air and light!

Question, Charles: I haven't had much luck doing "iron-on" toner transfers 
as my thin lines are barely visible on the wood -- not much toner actually 
transfers -- is that your experience, too?  Or maybe my iron is too puny?

Mike



Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com  

------------------------------

End of Baren Digest V21 #2067
*****************************