Baren Digest              Tuesday, 21 January 2003      Volume 22 : Number 2102


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From: richard stockham <richardjs_2000#yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:04:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 20486] Re: #15 pain and agony 

- --- David Bull <davebull#woodblock.com> wrote:

>There is no hard and fast rule,

> but key block 
> printing generally uses a fairly thin black, and
> little (if any) paste.


Dave,

I was wondering if this was also the case where you
overlay the keyblock, as you did in the paper mill
print?

Richard Stockham
Birmingham, Alabama



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From: David Bull <davebull#woodblock.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:20:06 +0900
Subject: [Baren 20487] Re: #15 pain and agony 

Richard wrote:


> Dave wrote:

>> There is no hard and fast rule,
>> but key block printing generally uses a fairly thin
>> black, and little (if any) paste.

>
> Dave,
> I was wondering if this was also the case where you
> overlay the keyblock, as you did in the paper mill
> print?


Do you mean that final impression where the keyblock gets reinforced? 
There was no special treatment there - just the same basic sumi mix (a 
pretty weak one) that I used for the original impression. The front 
plume came out looking deeper and darker because it had been printed 
twice ...

The sumi mix was quite 'liquidy' - if I had knocked over my bowl, it 
would have run all over the floor. When we need a _real_ black, the sumi 
is mixed much thicker, more like a goopy mud. But that stuff is no good 
for keyblock impressions as it just clogs up all the lines ...

Most professional printers here have a bowl of sumi in their workshop 
that has been in existence ever since they started this line of work. 
It's kind of like a baker's yeast supply - constantly in use and 
constantly being topped up. It's thick, black and heavy, and when they 
need a thinner mix, they spoon some of it out into a smaller bowl and 
thin it as necessary.  (I myself don't do it this way - the long breaks 
from printing while I wear my carver's hat make it difficult to keep 
open pigment cups in good condition ...)

Dave


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From: Barbara Mason <barbaramason45#yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:43:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 20488] sumi ink 


Dave,

Thanks for the help....the ink was so thick in the jar that I had
to scoop it out with a mixing knife, I did mix it on the slab a
bit before I thinned it down and there appeared to be wierd
things in it. If it was oil based ink, I would have said it had
skin from the top of the ink where it had dried was mixed in.
After mixing for awhile the wierd things sort of disappeared. I
left a bit on the slab and when I cleaned it up it had turned to
powder and flaked off. Very much like pigment without vehicle.
This is definitely a learning process....

My lines are so wide that there is little danger of things
filling in....I will never be able to carve the way you do. But
it is a lot of fun doing this. I decided a long time ago that I
would never sell this work, just make it. I know I am not very
good at it, but if I just do it for myself I never have to worry,
do I? Takes a bit of pressure off. Of course that means I am
spending most of my time doing the other printmaking processes
for shows and this is my fun. Guess one could have worse fun?

Still two colors to go, but I should be done today or tomorrow
and then drying and shipping. It feels good not to be late!

Kent, I don't want to hear one word about that red bridge at
Multnomah Falls....we call this artistic license!

Best to all,

Barbara

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From: ArtfulCarol#aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:20:32 EST
Subject: [Baren 20489] Workshop 

 Hi, 
For anyone  who has 3 weeks and the  4 digit cost available  there is an 
Intensive print workshop being given by Karen Kunc at the  Anderson Ranch 
Center, Colorado. This workshop will focus on the "why "  of printmaking and 
content rather than the "how" , taking your work to the next level through 
discussion and critiques
All  Print Media
Sept 8-26

Also offered there , a course just on the printing of woodblocks and some 
other woodblock courses

www.andersonranch.org.

Carol Lyons
Irvington, NY      .

  

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From: G Wohlken <blueman#pantek.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:44:11 +0000
Subject: [Baren 20490] Messy-Hanga update 

Just want to let the hanga-new people know, I'm making a mess :-)
I'm using Akuacolor, new to me, and even with paste, I seem to be
getting mottling in the color blocks, not so with the black sumi
from the Baren Mall. The paper is thicker than I've ever used, so
registration isn't going easy. I tried an experiment or two on
small, older blocks and using Matt Brown's little kento jig, but
the paper is too thick for it and keeps slipping a tad out of
place.  This isn't looking good for printing the "real" one.

Anyone else having trouble?  Misery loves a little company.

I have had some conflicting info about Akua color.  Paste or no
paste. I think it should have paste, but then again, I'm getting
weird looking color.  Also, if I have to reprint a color (I'm
using color blocks that cover the whole print, two times -- one
red, one ochre, then a thick lined black drawing on top of it
all, some of the drawing being  a mass of black (as in a long
cloak on the figure).  If I need to reprint the red (particularly
the red as it show most through the black, and the ochre shows
only in two places, but I'm using it also as a tone on the paper
that may warm the red a little), then do I go through all of them
and print the red.  Then go through all of them again and print
another layer of red?  Or do I print the red immediately without
putting it the paper in the plastic bag to wait for the next
go-round? Or do I leave it out and wait a minute (Akua color is
supposed to stay moist longer, however, the edges of the paper
would dry), then reprint immediately.         

Gayle in Ohio  




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From: "Jeanne N. Chase" <studiojnc#prodigy.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:41:44 -0500
Subject: [Baren 20491] Re: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 

Gilda

Don't feel bad about all of your troubles trying the Hanga print.
Have been in contact with 3 others and we are all in trouble. I
had my blocks carved in cherry wood. At the last minute realized
they were all out of whack. There went the cherry wood. So now I
am also starting over but on poplar. Expensive paper, and cheap
wood.

Does anyone know how poplar reacts to Hanga printing. Should I
put something on the wood first before printing. It has a lot of
grain showing even though I sanded it a lot.

Any advice?

Jeanne N. always in trouble!!!



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From: "Jeanne N. Chase" <studiojnc#prodigy.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:51:41 -0500
Subject: [Baren 20492] Re: #15 pain and agony 

Dear Bea

The more I hear from all of the new Hanga printmakers in # 15, I am
beginning to realize that we are all in the same boat. Hopefully it will not
sink before we finish.

This has taught me a big lesson. Oh, how I admire David Bull, Mike Lyons,
April  Vollmer and all of those Hanga printmakers now!!!!!

With a lot of pain and envy.

Jeanne N. (Now where did I put all of that wet paper?)


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From: Julio.Rodriguez#walgreens.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:05:11 -0600
Subject: [Baren 20493] Re: sumi, blotches and proofing hanga 


Jeanne, I had many problems cutting and printing poplar, found it very 
stringy and splintery....but it maybe ok for 
larger solid color areas w/o much detail...I made the mistake of trying to 
cut a keyblock on it with thin lines...(thin ala Julio not thin ala 
David....which means my lines were 1/16-1/8" ).

I have had the same problems others are reporting with blotches, etc....a 
bit of patience during the "proofing" steps goes a long way. By that I 
mean take time to correct the problems in some cheaper paper that you
can proof with. If you just can't wait and have to get the edition 
going...add about 5-10 sheets of a cheaper paper
in top of your expensive hosho.  These will serve to warm up your 
block/brushes as well as to identify any 
areas needing additional carving, mis-registrations, etc.... by the time 
you hit that first hosho sheet from Mr. Yamaguchi-san all will be 
well..... 

Re sumi...mine is always runny as I use the kind that comes in liquid form 
from Yamamoto Co....I think it's normally
used for calligraphy and Sumi-e painting....probably not the same stuff 
David uses ? When I want thick deep black I use it straight out of the 
bottle w/o dilution. It does get thicker if you let it sit for a 
while...specially when the temperature is below freezing {;-)

I also find that paying careful attention as to how I brush the block 
plays a key role on the end-result. Not only the amount but also the 
direction and the waning final strokes...I think much of the color/paste 
that gets put on the block ends up on the brush proper..and its the 
balance of this delivery system that keeps the prints consistent from 
sheet to sheet.

Good luck to us all with #15....Julio
_=--

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From: Julio.Rodriguez#walgreens.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:37:02 -0600
Subject: [Baren 20494] Re: more on blotches..... 


More on blotches.....my carving is usually suspect when I have these...not 
so much the cut depth (normally if you keep your baren flat and don't let 
it dip into the crevices....you are ok w/o having to carve toooo 
deep)...but my problem is that sometimes I get carried away with my rough 
clearing and forget to leave little islands around the edges of the block 
to hold the paper corners up.....w/o these little paper supports....and 
with the mess created by the slopping around of color...you are going to 
get some blotches as the moist paper (heavier ?) dips....

When I find myself in this predicament, I tape a little piece of 
cardboard, felt, etc...enough to hold the paper up
at the edges....if the mess is on the inside..then I sometimes cut a full 
mask for the block....so the mask is off when I apply color and brush it 
on....then I place the mask down before laying the printing paper on the 
block....no more blotches!

It is a pain and it does slow things down taking off & putting on the 
masks....all which could have been avoided by giving my carving some 
thought...

julio 


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From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:52:36 -0600
Subject: [Baren 20495] Re: sumi, blotches and proofing hanga

Julio wrote:

>I have had the same problems others are reporting with blotches, etc....


Dear Jeanne and Julio and others...

My experience with blotches is that a little planning and care can 
virtually eliminate them...  First, the cut-out parts don't have to be very 
deep, but ridges and grooves which can collect ink should be carved down 
smoother.  Second, don't try to carve farther than 1 1/2 to 2 inches or so 
away from printing parts (you can brush effectively with that much buffer 
space, but it becomes too easy for your paper to 'sag' or for your baren to 
'tip' into the carved places if you carve away any more than that.  Third, 
plan your blocks and carving so that it will be easy to use the baren to 
print and difficult for the baren to tip or fall off into the inky carved 
places.  Fourth, don't let your paper get too wet -- that way it won't be 
so likely to sag down into inky carved areas.  Fifth -- as soon as you 
discover a blotch, stop printing and carve away the offending blotch and 
wipe and dry the area if it's a non-printing edge -- Reasonable planning 
and care will keep you mostly out of trouble, but...

If you have very many color layers and or blocks to print, you really have 
to be VERY careful...  Let's say you have ten blocks and are 90% perfect in 
your printing -- then you are likely to have EVERY print ruined 
!!!  Because one in ten sheets you print will have a mistake, and you are 
printing each sheet ten times...  Then they may ALL have mistakes by the 
time you are done.  So you really have to be...  printerly !!

Maybe I've left some stuff out (like that those non-printing areas you 
leave high for baren support have to have very carefully rounded edges in 
order to prevent embossing the paper and having those random edges show up 
in the finished print)...

Mike




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From: "Maria Diener (aka Arango)" <maria#mariarango.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:00:40 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20496] Re: sumi, blotches and proofing hanga  

I will go along with Julio, even though Dave swears you should practice on
good paper to get used to good paper behavior (see Dave, I saved you an
email).
I printed on Torinoko cream, the real stuff not the Shin. My carefully
dampened pile had 50 sheets of Torinoko preceded by 12 sheets of BFK light
preceded by 3 sheets of newsprint.
I used the newsprint to get used to the amount of paste/pigment and because
I started out much too wet and because brushing goop all over my block
seemed a horrible thing to do and I wanted to know what would happen.
Then I switched to the BFK to check for carving errors, splotches, color hue
and intensity, etc.
Finally, by the time I printed on the Torinoko I had the routine down, the
blotches more or less under control, the brush loaded, the block happy and
the pigment/paste mix consistently unpredictable.

I have about 15 prints that I would call decent, 5 that were printed
decently but I skipped the border a little when placing the paper, the rest
of the edition that I am sending has various minor blotches of assorted
colors (I do hope you enjoy random activity). All in all, about 30/50 prints
came out tolerable.
None in this my first hanga are what I would call "good" prints and the
edition varies widely in intensity of color, brush markings, baren mishaps,
skips, and such other variables. I found it tough to keep the block from
drying completely and probably trying to work too fast to counteract the dry
weather resulted in a "careless" final result; more so than if I were
working with a non-drying medium. But I learned to get a "feel" for the
pigment, the brushing, the printing...I'm just not very good at controlling
everything involved.
On the up-side, I was very happy with how easy it is to obtain a decent
transfer of pigment when compared with oil based inks printed with the
baren. I was also pretty thrilled with the possibilities of pigment mixing
on the block, due to the transparency. I might try a 4-color
(CYMK)separation and let the pigments overlap just to see what happens. I
was extremely happy with the clean up (what clean up?)!

I still prefer the velvety blacks of the oily world and the shine of the
overlapping inks. But that's just personal preference. I kind of missed the
smell of the linseed too. Water based pigments smelled musty.

Sniffing linseed,
Maria

<||><||><||><||><||><||>
     Maria Arango
  Las Vegas Nevada USA
  www.1000woodcuts.com
<||><||><||><||><||><||>



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From: Barbara Mason <barbaramason45#yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:43:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 20497] hanga 



Gayle,

It works better if you print all 30, then go back and print all
30 again. I do not lay the prints on top of each other, rather
beside and l layer them with a damp blotter. I know Dave uses
newsprint, but I hate newsprint and damp it smells
terrible.....so I use the blotters.

I planned my print so that any mess would look like part of the
work....but I have made some rejects. I am in the middle of color
#4 with one more color to go in a small area. I am happy with it,
although I can see many things I could have done differently.
Even though I thought I carved to China, I have places that are
not deep enough and places I dipped the baren down instead of
holding it flat...life is hard sometimes. Good thing we are doing
this for fun, right????

Barbara




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From: "Carol Myers" <carollm#concentric.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:01:41 -0500
Subject: [Baren 20498] Re: #15 pain and agony 

I'm glad to hear that I am not the only one struggling with this process.
I'm carving away (2nd image) and hoping that my crinkled, home-sized paper
will dampen well and work okay. I realize that this should be fun, but I do
want to put a print in the exchange that I can be proud of.
The time extension will let me relax a little, and have some mistake time.I
have only done reduction woodcuts in the past, and not many of them at that.
So I'm sure that my carving needs lots more work. Oh well, have to start
somewhere!
So I'm glad to hear that we're all in the same boat.(or many of us)
Carol M.

Oh, and thanks to the many members who have offered advice and support!


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From: Wanda <robertson#canby.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:38:09 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20499] Re: sumi, blotches and proofing hanga 

on 1/20/03 11:00 AM, Maria Diener (aka Arango) at maria#mariarango.com
wrote:


> I printed on Torinoko cream, the real stuff not the Shin. My carefully
> dampened pile had 50 sheets of Torinoko preceded by 12 sheets of BFK light
> preceded by 3 sheets of newsprint.

<snip>

That's the stack I do too....about 10 newprint sheets (if you don't need
that many, you can toss the extras - but it's nice to have them handy) to
get the block & brush primed up suitably, then my good paper(usually
Matsumura's Torinoko (cream or white), and usually a few experimental pieces
of paper just to see how they work. Like Tableau, stonehenge, etc. You never
know what will strike your fancy! Or what you might have to use in an
emergency - like a printing fit in the middle of the night.


> None in this my first hanga are what I would call "good" prints and the
> edition varies widely in intensity of color, brush markings, baren mishaps,
><snip>


I hope no one is expecting any perfect borders on the prints from this
address!  I don't mind a dot or line here and there - so please don't anyone
feel like your prints aren't good enough. It's a steep learning curve
- -challenging but exciting too.


> baren. I was also pretty thrilled with the possibilities of pigment mixing
> on the block, due to the transparency. I might try a 4-color
> (CYMK)separation and let the pigments overlap just to see what happens. I
> was extremely happy with the clean up (what clean up?)!


Yes, yes, yes - that is one of the really fun parts of hanga - layering
colors and shades to get colors & nuances that you wouldn't get any other
way -even with transparent oil inks. IMHO, of course.

<snip>

> smell of the linseed too. Water based pigments smelled musty.


That's not musty, Maria, that's *earthy*! :-) Which is also one of the
problems/challenges that we have when mixing the dry pigments. The earth
colors - such as yellow ochres & burnt siennas really are pigments from the
earth  (so we are basically playing in the mud) - whereas colors such as
reds & oranges are some kind of metal oxide thing, which is not easily water
soluble.  This is not meant to be a chemical analysis - but an overview.

I can't wait to see all of the hanga prints! And I hope we can have some
really good discussions about them on Baren.

Wanda



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End of Baren Digest V22 #2102
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