Baren Digest Monday, 24 March 2003 Volume 22 : Number 2169 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ArtfulCarol#aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 11:39:22 EST Subject: [Baren 21089] Fwd: political art? No political art in Baren. I agree with what John said; it shows an understanding of history and today's reality. In all of history, if there has ever been a single Dictator who has been overthrown by antiwar protesters using placards, please let us know about it. The same goes for Islamic religious states that support terrorism against innocent populations Carol Lyons >It was of my understanding that baren should not be a political organization? > If you choose to take on this subject than I would be justified to do art >that is pro-American as its subject. Or pro war in Iraq. This is a very >political subject and all views would be allowed or you would have >censorship. To me appeasement of a dictator is not peace. Appeasement of >Hitler did not bring peace. Appeasement of Hitler lead to the death of my >wife's family. Today I meet Americans who where from Iraq, their stories >reminded me of things that happened to my wife's family. > >Sorry peace might be an interesting ideal but in today's world it is a very >political subject. One persons freedom fighter is another persons terrorist >or mass murder. > >I feel it would be wrong for baren to take on this subject as I am sure I >will be censored. john center ------------------------------ From: ArtfulCarol#aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 12:02:49 EST Subject: [Baren 21090] Re: Baren Digest V22 #2168 Juan Guererro, I do hope the Chicanos and Mexicans, print artists who are in your group are LEGAL immigrants. Otherwise, they are against the US law and criminals. Carol Lyons ------------------------------ From: "Bill H. Ritchie, Jr." Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 09:30:44 -0800 Subject: [Baren 21091] Political art? It seems to me the discussions about war and peace, politics and art and the purposes of the Baren listserve reflect a theory by the Marxist essay writer Walter Benjamin that he put in "The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction." In essence he said when one-of-a-kind artworks (Paintings, sculpture, architecture) were reproduced by photo and printing, it stripped the "aura" of the original away and, in so doing, changed the role of that art work from what it had been and moved it to the work of politics. Benjamin wrote it as the Third Reich was coming into being. When you read more of Benjamin's essays, and his life story, it takes on special poignancy, I think. I think about this whenever I see the Baren discussion going toward politics, or choosing sides, or the work of creating a majority opinion, etc. The words on my screen are not like looking at an artwork, but I envision the same hands entering text (as I am doing now) as the hands that will carve a block or print a sheet of paper. The irony is that printmakers are doing their work in the very medium that constitutes "mechanical reproduction". Benjamin could not have known about artists who make originals IN THE MEDIUM that he called "mechanical." Actually he was only thinking of mass-produced prints by almost purely mechanical means. And, if he could have imagined it, the use of digital reproduction (as when we put images on the Web). Today I wonder What is the work of art in the age of digital reproduction? And I'm striving to discover the form that art in this age will take. I don't expect it to have anything to do with politics, of swaying masses of people this way or that. On the other hand, maybe Benjamin's observation is 100% correct and despite what we wish, our printmaking art is political if it is anything at all. I hope not. So I would be wise to steer clear of the trap, i.e., when my art smacks of policy, persuasion or commentary on geopolitical content. My hope is that the work (as in the verb form of "Work") of art is toward sustainability of human life on Earth. The Union of Concerned scientists estimated in 1992 that human life would not be sustainable by the year 2022, at the most optimistic reasoning, unless five major problems were addressed and measurable progress were made in their solution. Do artists have a role in this? Is art education up to the challenge of helping today's and tomorrow's artists work in this direction? The first challenge would be to continue learning to distinguish when one's creative imagination is working for politics or working for art's sake. I saw a similar situation--that is, stripping the aura of the original and replacing with politics--happen in a small cooperative business start up. When personalities of the management began to cause members to "choose sides", then politics came in and replaced the original spririt (aura) of entrepreneurship, creativity, education and cooperation. What is often lost is the big picture. When someone is screaming in your face, it's hard to remember your three-year plan, or your twenty year plan (to have a safe earth in 2022). It's easier to create a political basis for action to meet an immediate threat, choose sides and attack the local issue on strictly local (and legal) terms. For printmakers, it's easier to labor over an edition of prints than to figure out the Union of Concerned Scientist's call for help from artists and then to face up to the possibility that printmaking has become digital art today, or at best a tool for on-line art education that includes, for example, a study of Benjamin's observations. - - Bill Professional Career Site: www.seanet.com/~ritchie First Emeralda Portal Site: www.artsport.com Bill's Virtual Art Gallery & e-commerce Site: www.myartpatron.com Experimental Free Site: www.freeyellow.com/members/videoprint Snail Mail: 500 Aloha #105, Seattle 98109 e-mail: ritchie#seanet.com ------------------------------ From: michael schneider Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 19:08:08 +0100 Subject: [Baren 21092] Re: Baren Digest V22 #2168 Carol, I do hope your posting is driven by sarcasm. michael schneider ArtfulCarol#aol.com wrote: > Juan Guererro, > I do hope the Chicanos and Mexicans, print artists who are in your > group are LEGAL immigrants. Otherwise, they are against the US law > and criminals. > Carol Lyons ------------------------------ From: "Cynthia S. Bendix" Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 10:14:43 -0800 Subject: [Baren 21093] Re: Baren Digest V22 #2168 Hello Everyone, Let's not attack each other. Juan was asking about printmakers who might want to respond. Attacking him personally is inappropriate. I have noticed in my own small community in Oregon, that people are tense,fearful and reactive. Of course we are. Our country is polarized at this moment (sadly) and I suppose it is not surprising that our online printmaking community is a microcosm of this. Mike asked for ideas about exchange # 17(?). Immediately, there were fierce and opposing discussions about "war" and "peace." Might I suggest suffering and grief as our next exchange topic. It is universally experienced across cultures,gender,race, religious affiliation,species. As a species, we universally inflict suffering and grief on each other for complicated,contradictory and fiercely defended reasons. I look at my dear friends, who firmly hold opposing points of view and passionately and with great articulation, defend their views. Each has deep roots of belief and emotion that validate their point of view. I,of course, have my own. Mostly, I feel frightened . I see my community my country and the whole human community, replaying the oldest emotions of conflict, fear of loss and threat to body and territory. I see us, without intending to be insulting, as the animals we still are, afraid, lashing out, defending what we believe is ours and holding tightly to our immediate families. God Bless and Help us ALL . Thea ------------------------------ From: Aqua4tis#aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 13:43:59 EST Subject: [Baren 21094] Re: moku hanga weekly get together how i wish i lived close to you barbara ------------------------------ From: Charles Morgan Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 11:23:23 -0800 Subject: [Baren 21095] Re: Baren Digest V22 #2168 My fellow Bareners, This forum is too constrained for a REASONED exchange of views on the current state of international affairs. All we manage to do is to vent our emotions. All we manage to do is to annoy others and become annoyed ourselves. I for one do not think that is productive. If anyone would like to engage me in political debate about current international affairs, I would be glad to do so to the limits of my time ... but let us not do it on this list. If you want to have an exchange of views with me about such matters, please contact me off list. It is not the purpose of this forum to engage in such an exchange. I am going to desperately try to ignore the political content of future posts. I have much to say, but I will bite my tongue. I hope the political diatribes can die down. I have very strongly held views, based on a lot of research and personal experience. It is hard for me to keep quiet. But I am going to try. I urge others to do so as well. Just think about it ... I do not think anyone's views are going to be swayed by interchanges on Baren Forum. So what then is the purpose of injecting our own political views into the forum? I can see no good for the community that is served ... it serves only the selfish release of ejaculatory expostulation. Please, let us try to preserve our artistic good will for each other and not be so selfish. I think we are all too close to the issues to make an exchange on the topic of "War" or "Peace" to be a wise idea. I think it will lead to acrimony and hard feelings to no good purpose. It is too easy to produce a simplistic "propaganda poster" which distorts reality and offends others. Please, let us not stoop to that. Surely we are all opposed to "suffering and grief". Surely we have all experienced it to a greater or lesser degree. And it is on all of our minds in the current crisis. I strongly support the suggestion that "suffering and grief" be the theme for the next exchange. And please try to remember that propaganda posters in the context of an exchange serve no purpose other than to illustrate the smallness of mind of the creator of the work. You all have my warm best wishes ........ Charles At 10:14 AM 3/23/03 -0800, you wrote: >Might I suggest suffering and grief as our next exchange topic. It is >universally experienced across cultures,gender,race, religious >affiliation,species. As a species, we universally inflict suffering and >grief on each other for complicated,contradictory and fiercely defended >reasons. ------------------------------ From: Sharri LaPierre Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 12:21:26 -0800 Subject: [Baren 21096] Re: Baren Digest V22 #2168 Mike, Yes, War and Peace are purely political, but so are most things, so I think War and Peace would be excellent themes for the exchange. Art is supposed to reflect the times in which it is done, as well as the ideals/ideas of the artist. The world would be much poorer without the images of Goya, Beckman, Kollwitz, Tolstoy and more. There would be no censorship - who would want to take on that task? Not me! I cast my vote for the theme War and Peace. Sharri ------------------------------ From: =?iso-8859-1?q?dimitris=20grammatikopulos?= Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 20:21:45 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Baren 21097] exchange #17 Dear Baren, my first suggestion is to make the next Exchange on the subject: "Lobotomy". Technically this is a state (by accident or by surgical operation) when the individuum cannot respond to anything from his environment. The world we live in is run under strict rules and laws. Everybody respects one another, their heritage, their family and traditions. Most of all, artists have no other emotions but the deepest sense of Nirvana. An all pink cloud surrounds them and all is well. "Guernica", "the "Capriccios", the "Miseries of ...", "Premonitions of Civil ..." have never happened as masterpieces of art. And others as well. I have not been a good member of this list. Actually I am one of the worst. Excuses don't count. I barely accept any myself. Still, I consider this Baren thing my Internet home. That's why I am planning a major show with all the exchanges I've taken part in.***Perhaps this will eliminate some of my debts to the forum***. ...I hope... It grieves me deeply that we are to self-censor ourselves on BURNING matters of our world. IT IS WRONG! We ARE mature people. We ARE artists. IT IS BEYOND ANY CONSIDERATION (and I made that very, very, very clear in my previous e-mail) THAT GOVERNMENT ACTIONS ARE APART FROM THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. Our anti-... manifestations CAN HAVE an objective point of view. How often do we realise that we are the senses of our community? We FEEL and we let them KNOW. I believe that an exchange must be held. About grief, injustice, anguish, oppression... About the Four Horsemen of Apocalypse. Or any other flying object as devastating as they... or more... If any member of the list would like to have a copy of my 'Refugee' I would be happy to send it out. You may see it in www.plaindotline.gr. Dear moderators and council: you happen to be my favourite people on this list. PLEASE... Please take off the finger you are hiding behind and make a statement like an artist must. MY best wishes to all, Dimitris ------------------------------ From: Chromoxylo#aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 16:36:20 EST Subject: [Baren 21098] Re: Baren Digest V22 #2168 Why not avoid the politics that have become devisive and the lack of peace which currently is surrounding our every waking moment. Perhaps the subject of someone or something near and dear to our hearts, something we value and would hate to lose would be more appropriate. I don't believe that art should be censored at any level and yes, it sometimes can be very disturbing (I have a print from Goya's Disasters of War that I have to keep in a box) and hard to take. Look around and see your own world, who and what you really care about - 'cause there is no guarantee it will be there tomorrow. Paul Ritscher ------------------------------ From: "Cynthia S. Bendix" Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 13:41:52 -0800 Subject: [Baren 21099] Re: Calendar-2004 Tally - update Julio, Please remove me from participation in the Open theme calendar print. Sincerely, Thea Bendix ------------------------------ From: "Cynthia S. Bendix" Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 13:51:28 -0800 Subject: [Baren 21100] Re: Baren Digest V22 #2168 I apologise if I have "annoyed" anyone and for finally, after weeks of "biting my tongue" giving in to my feelings and expressing them on a forum not intended for politics. For the past couple of weeks, I have been alarmed at the hot headed tone of the Baren messages and now I have given in and taken the bait by responding. Best to everyone, Thea ------------------------------ From: Aqua4tis#aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 18:17:44 EST Subject: [Baren 21101] Re: Baren Digest V22 #2168 thea and everyone i think the idea of an exchange about suffering and grief is aptly appropriate also i wanted to say that artists speak about the times they live in through their art we should be able to creat any images we want without being attacked for it no matter what your political views mybe we should just keep the politics in the visual images and off the list georga ------------------------------ From: Minna Sora Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 13:26:55 +0200 (EET) Subject: [Baren 21102] The theme, 3 suggestions What about basic elements, water, air, fire and earth? Or, for example oil based woodcuts and layers of colour? Transparency, opac ity and such. And, third suggestion, "touch of the surface" - everybody would explore the ways to use tools etc to create interesting patterns and stuctures And, pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase, war-peace theme would be strictly forbidden! Minna ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V22 #2169 *****************************