Baren Digest                Tuesday, 3 June 2003        Volume 23 : Number 2247


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: G Wohlken <blueman#pantek.com>
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 09:28:00 -0400
Subject: [Baren 21673] How do you use Rives paper with woodcuts (without a press) 

This is a question for people who work with Rives paper for their 
woodcuts.  My son bought some Rives paper for his recent woodcut (about 
19 inches wide by about 11 inches high ).  He called me yesterday asking 
about this paper.  He had bought about 10 sheets of it and found it's 
not printing as well as he'd hoped.  He had used Okawara paper for his 
first proof of the print and it turned out well.  He wanted to make 
copies on heavier paper and bought the Rives.  He is hand printing, by 
the way.  Any tips on how to print with this paper.  Also, he had bought 
some water based ink.  Could the ink be the problem?  Thanks for help. 
 If I still had my "homepages" I would post a digital jpeg photo of his 
proof for you to see, but alas I lost my pages when Apple decided to 
charge us all for what used to be free to us Mac owners.    

Gayle/Ohio  




------------------------------

From: Myron Turner <mturner#Ms.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 08:39:12 -0500
Subject: [Baren 21674] Re: How do you use Rives paper with woodcuts (without a press)


In general the lighter-weight Japanese papers will always print more easily 
than western papers--this must be especially true when printing with by 
hand.  To print on BFK Rives you should dampen the paper.  Since I print 
with a press, I can't help with the details of the hand printing 
process.  But--alternating sheets dampened with a brush, placed in a 
plastic bag under a light weight is the way I dampen the paper--i.e. I 
don't soak the paper as you would for intaglio.

Myron

At 08:28 AM 02/06/2003, you wrote:

>This is a question for people who work with Rives paper for their 
>woodcuts.  My son bought some Rives paper for his recent woodcut (about 19 
>inches wide by about 11 inches high ).  He called me yesterday asking 
>about this paper.  He had bought about 10 sheets of it and found it's not 
>printing as well as he'd hoped.  He had used Okawara paper for his first 
>proof of the print and it turned out well.  He wanted to make copies on 
>heavier paper and bought the Rives.  He is hand printing, by the way.  Any 
>tips on how to print with this paper.  Also, he had bought some water 
>based ink.  Could the ink be the problem?  Thanks for help. If I still had 
>my "homepages" I would post a digital jpeg photo of his proof for you to 
>see, but alas I lost my pages when Apple decided to charge us all for what 
>used to be free to us Mac owners.
>
>Gayle/Ohio
>
>




------------------------------

From: Daniel Dew <ddew#tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 10:02:06 -0400
Subject: [Baren 21675] Re: How do you use Rives paper with woodcuts (without a press) 

I use LIGHTWEIGHT Rives for my woodcuts all the time, so I am assuming you
are talking about heavy weight paper?
IMHO, I have given up on using any heavyweight paper for hand printing wood
blocks, whether using water or oil based inks.
They may work better for those who have presses, but for hand work, blah.

d. dew


> From: G Wohlken <blueman#pantek.com>


> Subject: [Baren 21673] How do you use Rives paper with woodcuts (without a
> press)
> 
> This is a question for people who work with Rives paper for their
> woodcuts.  My son bought some Rives paper for his recent woodcut (about
> 19 inches wide by about 11 inches high ).  He called me yesterday asking
> about this paper.  He had bought about 10 sheets of it and found it's
> not printing as well as he'd hoped.  He had used Okawara paper for his
> first proof of the print and it turned out well.  He wanted to make
> copies on heavier paper and bought the Rives.  He is hand printing, by
> the way.  Any tips on how to print with this paper.  Also, he had bought
> some water based ink.  Could the ink be the problem?  Thanks for help.


> 
> Gayle/Ohio  
> 
> 
> 



------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 09:42:34 -0500
Subject: [Baren 21676] Re: How do you use Rives paper with woodcuts (without a press) 

At 09:28 AM 6/2/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>This is a question for people who work with Rives paper for their 
>woodcuts.  <...> He is hand printing, by the way.  Any tips on how to 
>print with this paper.  Also, he had bought some water based ink.  Could 
>the ink be the problem?  <...>
>Gayle/Ohio


I agree with the others, Gayle.  Rives Lightweight prints OK with a baren, 
especially when dampened for more than 3 hours -- preferably overnight -- I 
don't think you can get this paper TOO wet, and a quick application of 
rolling pin to paper between blotters ought to be sufficient, but it's not 
nearly as strong as washi, so it can be very frustrating.  If he's printing 
with Rives BFK,   I don't think anyone has enough muscle or coarse enough 
baren to print into the pebbled texture of that paper by hand.  Even when 
soaked (and I mean SOAKED -- more than three hours) it is too thick and too 
hard to print by hand.  The pebbled grain will always be dominant, I 
think.  Save the Rives for the press is my tip, and run the prints on the 
Okawara paper.

Mike


Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com  

------------------------------

From: Barbara Mason <barbaramason45#yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 07:52:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 21677] How do you use Rives paper with woodcuts (without a press) 


Gayle,
Rives makes so  many kinds of paper...are you sure it is BFK?
This paper will work but it takes a very strong arm to print it
well and a ball bearing baren would help.

11x19 is a very odd size for BFK...are you sure this is not
watercolor paper? I think this could be a problem for him as the
ink would not be absorbed as well. Watervcolor paper has lots of
internal sizing in the paper for ease of moving the pigment
around on the surface.

I have used Rives lightweight and Rives heavyweight printmaking
paper both with success. You can soak this paper in a water bath
for 20 minutes, then blot with bath towels. Blot all the surface
water away, the paper should be uniformly dull. Use old towels to
avoid lint on the paper. You can of course moisten every other
sheet and put it in plastic overnight, but sometimes with this
heavy paper a water bath works better as I think it absorbs more
water. I use Rives lightweight in my  schools program with
children and find I get better results if I soak it in a bath and
blot it than if I make a paper pack. Good luck.
Barbara

>G Wohlken <blueman#pantek.com> wrote:
>This is a question for people who work with Rives paper for their 
>woodcuts. My son bought some Rives paper for his recent woodcut (about 
>19 inches wide by about 11 inches high ). 


------------------------------

From: Barbara Mason <barbaramason45#yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:04:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 21678] western paper 



To everyone who is thinking of running out and trying Rives paper, I only know of one 
printmaker who uses it well for hanga and that is Matt Brown... http://www.ooloopress.com  
if you want to see Matt's work. He uses Rives heavyweight and uses a damp paper pack. He has it down. 
I have never been able to do it well, the oriental paper works so well as it is designed to do hanga. 
For Oil, almost any paper will work if your arm is strong enough or you have a press...my favorites 
are Kitikata and arches 88 for printing dry and Rives or Arches for printing damp. Rives lightweight 
is very soft so it is hard to handle, use a second sheet to help you register it on the block, that 
is take a sheet of stable paper or a waxed paper that will not be affected by the dampness and use 
it behind the paper you are dropping. Then remove it when the paper is down on the block. This sounds 
hard, handling two pieces of paper and it does take a little practice but it works well once you 
get the feel for it.

Best to all,
Barbara




------------------------------

From: DC <doodah#cyberportal.net>
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 12:04:33 -0400
Subject: [Baren 21679] <no subject>

 hi-i'm wondering if any of you hangas out there could help me achieve an
effect i'm trying to get on a print. i'm trying to get a white cloud effect
on a dark blue background. i've tried salt and sugar to try to lift some of
the pigment, and also tried sponging white onto the block and overprinting.
neither has given me the look i am going for. does anyone have a trick up
their sleeve for getting this effect? thanks a bunch, 

dina

------------------------------

From: "Maria Arango" <maria#mariarango.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:42:21 -0700
Subject: [Baren 21680] RE: Rives paper with woodcuts  (without a press) 

I beg to differ and I will raise my muscled arm for the occasion! :-)
This printed on Rives BFK heavyweight tan paper.
http://www.1000woodcuts.com/Studionotes/processa2z/frame/index.htm

Mike is right, much muscle, much patience, but when you dampen paper--ANY
paper--enough, you can print on it. I've printed on bark paper, wood, wood
veneer, cork, watercolor paper, leather...tough, yes, but hardly impossible.

I don't soak in a tub, too much hassle with full sheets, just spray with a
spray bottle, every sheet with heavy papers, and weigh down between boards
to let the moisture crawl evenly at least 3 hours. Print with a ball-bearing
baren or a wood-button baren as in the pictures above. Even the Murasaki
baren from Matsumura-san at the Baren Mall can get a fine non-grainy print
if you are patient enough and have a ready supply of energy bars and
bananas.

My main beef with Japanese papers is that they just don't come in enough
warm shades, the BFK tan or Arches tan are warm tan papers that come in huge
sheets and are much more affordable and available. The heavy weights take
quite a bit of punishment, and trust me I'm capable of delivering
punishment. I love to work with Okawara, just a bit bland in color, as is
kitakata and others. Also, the sizes of Japanese papers are often limited. I
also loved the paper I printed my hanga print on, cream torinoko, heavier
than the standard Japanese paper...but sheeeesh! broke the bank.

Never had a problem with Rives lightweight tearing or not accepting ink
equally as well as the Japanese papers. I use a backing sheet (usually
glassine or freezer paper) between baren and paper.

Maria

<||><||><||><||><||><||><||><||>
         Maria Arango
  Las Vegas Nevada USA
  www.1000woodcuts.com
<||><||><||><||><||><||><||><||>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-baren#ml.asahi-net.or.jp
> [mailto:owner-baren#ml.asahi-net.or.jp]On Behalf Of Mike Lyon
> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 7:43 AM
> To: baren#ml.asahi-net.or.jp
> Subject: [Baren 21676] Re: How do you use Rives paper with woodcuts
> (without a press)
>
>
> At 09:28 AM 6/2/2003 -0400, you wrote:

> >This is a question for people who work with Rives paper for their
> >woodcuts.  <...> He is hand printing, by the way.  Any tips on how to
> >print with this paper.  Also, he had bought some water based ink.  Could
> >the ink be the problem?  <...>
> >Gayle/Ohio

>
> I agree with the others, Gayle.  Rives Lightweight prints OK with
> a baren,
> especially when dampened for more than 3 hours -- preferably
> overnight -- I
> don't think you can get this paper TOO wet, and a quick application of
> rolling pin to paper between blotters ought to be sufficient, but
> it's not
> nearly as strong as washi, so it can be very frustrating.  If
> he's printing
> with Rives BFK,   I don't think anyone has enough muscle or coarse enough
> baren to print into the pebbled texture of that paper by hand.  Even when
> soaked (and I mean SOAKED -- more than three hours) it is too
> thick and too
> hard to print by hand.  The pebbled grain will always be dominant, I
> think.  Save the Rives for the press is my tip, and run the prints on the
> Okawara paper.




------------------------------

From: "Robert Canaga Gallery" <rcg#robertcanagagallery.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:38:00 -0700
Subject: [Baren 21681] Re: How do you use Rives paper with woodcuts (without a press) 

Rives is great if you wet-pack it. I use Lascaux as a replacement for paste
so I may have different results but I find it works wonderfully. I use the
good ball bearing Barren and am 6'1" and 230lb so I can really bear down. My
students have all used it the same way and the only  problem the had was
pressure, or using a cheep barren.
Robert

------------------------------

From: "Robert Canaga Gallery" <rcg#robertcanagagallery.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:45:09 -0700
Subject: [Baren 21682] Re: How do you use Rives paper with woodcuts  (without a press)

Remember, Rives make BFK, heavy weight, light weight, De lin, Johannot, and
other printing papers. Heavy weight and light weight are the only two I have
ever tried for Hanga, both after being packed. I would love to try de lin
but have not had the nerve. I use it for oil woodblock with my press.
Robert

------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 14:52:45 -0500
Subject: [Baren 21683] Re: <no subject> At 12:04 PM 6/2/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>hi-i'm wondering if any of you hangas out there could help me achieve an
>effect i'm trying to get on a print. i'm trying to get a white cloud effect
>on a dark blue background. i've tried salt and sugar to try to lift some of
>the pigment, and also tried sponging white onto the block and overprinting.
>neither has given me the look i am going for. does anyone have a trick up
>their sleeve for getting this effect? thanks a bunch, dina


Trick 1 (each impression will be a little different): use bokashi 
(gradation), leave block dry where clouds are to be white, dampen where 
they are to go from white to dark blue, and brush dark blue pigment all 
around.  Use printing brush with one end pigmented and the other just damp 
(no pigment) to brush pigment into sky and not into clouds.  Print and 
repeat.  Clean block/brush as needed.

Trick 2 (each impression will be similar): carve the white part of the 
cloud cleanly as usual.  Very gently shave a bit off the edges so that the 
paper isn't certain whether to print or not (pressure lessens from dark 
blue into definite white) leaving a sort of narrow bokashi around edges.

Trick 3 (each impression will be similar): carve a number of blocks.  1st 
prints only palest shade at edges of clouds and everywhere sky is dark 
blue.  2nd prints a bit darker, and a bit farther out from the clouds, 
otherwise identical to the first.  3rd is similar, but prints darker blue 
and farther still.  Etc., making a sort of "hard edge" gradation.

Trick 4 (combine trick 1 and trick 2): carve out white parts of clouds and 
gently slope edges as in 2, AND print bokashi as in 1.

Trick 5 (this IS tricky, and is a technique I plan for #17): Paper way too 
wet, print block as in trick 2 -- ink bleeds into unprinted areas in 
interesting (hopefully) and varying ways depending on how wet and how much 
pigment etc. etc.

You can think of 100 more, I bet!

- -- Mike


Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com  

------------------------------

From: Aqua4tis#aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 18:03:27 EDT
Subject: [Baren 21684] Re: Rives paper with woodcuts  (without a press) 

maria
could you show the wood button baren up close please?   what exactly is it?
thanks
georga


------------------------------

From: "Maria Arango" <maria#mariarango.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:30:32 -0700
Subject: [Baren 21685] Re: Rives paper with woodcuts  (without a press) 

http://www.1000woodcuts.com/Studionotes/Woodcut/Woodcut1.html
look toward the bottom of the page for description

here is the enlarged view
http://www.1000woodcuts.com/Studionotes/Woodcut/shroombarens.html

These are just wooden rosettes or simply round pieces of wood to which I
have glued wood buttons. Those two things are easily found at your nearest
home-stuff-supply store or Michael's or Joanne's for those in U.S. The
smaller the buttons the better the coverage for larger areas, but I still
like the larger button barens to get that paper waaaaay deep into those
carved areas and pick up ink where it shouldn't be---I mean!!, no! pick up a
nice embossed look.
You use them by pressing down with the palm of your hand, not like a real
baren. I don't have a strap on them but sometimes I could use one. However
the cats usually let me know where the danged thing flew off to.
They are best for chunky and stubborn western papers LIKE BFK heavy,
Stonehenge, Mangani family, and Rives the Lin too! I love that paper.

Maria

<||><||><||><||><||><||><||><||>
         Maria Arango
  Las Vegas Nevada USA
  www.1000woodcuts.com
<||><||><||><||><||><||><||><||>
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-baren#ml.asahi-net.or.jp
[mailto:owner-baren#ml.asahi-net.or.jp]On Behalf Of Aqua4tis#aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 3:03 PM
To: baren#ml.asahi-net.or.jp
Subject: [Baren 21684] Re: Rives paper with woodcuts (without a press)


maria
could you show the wood button baren up close please?   what exactly is it?
thanks
georga



------------------------------

From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan#uvic.ca>
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 16:54:51 -0700
Subject: [Baren 21686] Re: New printmakers website 

This sort of "bottle jack press" has been described by a number of people 
over the last few years ... including me!!! I wonder where the idea first 
appears? The basic idea is to just use a hydraulic press, as would be found 
in a machine shop ... that was the original reason I made mine. But 
printmaking requires less pressure than pressing bearings onto a shaft or 
using a tool and die to form metal components. So one can use a wooden 
frame instead of metal. In fact, I am sure you could use a bumper jack or a 
"scissors" jack instead of the hydraulic jack.

By the way, I found that attaching coil springs between the ram and the 
base of the jack greatly facilitated the use of the press ... when you 
release the valve, the springs draw the ram down allowing you to remove the 
jack more easily.

Cheers ....... Charles

At 02:10 PM 4/1/03 +0200, you wrote:

>Myron,
>
>Please follow the link to:
>
><http://www.lillil.com/ProgressatJackPress.html>http://www.lillil.com/Progr >essatJackPress.html
>
>or more directly:
>
><http://www.lillil.com/JackPrints.html>http://www.lillil.com/JackPrints.html
>
>The idea is that I am going to build one to put into a suitcase to be 
>easily transportable. But of course waiting to hear about funding at the 
>moment. It should all be going ahead in August. There have been about four 
>prototypes already and I sure there will be more as some one has suggest a 
>wooden construction. But the prints are all about A4 size at present.
>
>Victoria
>
>On Saturday, May 31, 2003, at 01:50  pm, Myron Turner wrote:
>

>>The Jack Press sounds like an interesting project.  I couldn't locate a 
>>picture of this press through your website.  Do you have one?  What are 
>>the physical limits of the press, i.e. maximum image size?
>>
>>Myron
>>
>>At 06:26 AM 01/04/2003, you wrote:
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>>Recently I have been updating my website to reflect my work in progress 
>>as a printmaker/artist. I am currently studying an MA in 
>>multi-disciplinary printmaking at the University West of England. Please 
>>have a quick browse when you get the chance.
>>
>><http://www.lillil.com>http://www.lillil.com
>>
>>There is a long list of links and a brief description about photogravure 
>>at the KHIB in Bergen. If you were expecting samples of my work you will 
>>be disappointed. But there will eventually be visual examples of 
>>completed projects. I'd especially like to hear some feedback about a 
>>relief print project I will be attempting in South Africa later this 
>>year. It is called JackPrints and is aimed at developing ( very ) low 
>>cost printmaking techniques.
>>
>>Many thanks,
>>
>>Victoria




------------------------------

End of Baren Digest V23 #2247
*****************************